Multi-level family with a single level Mom questions....

[Treewin]

Hello to all of you wonderful ladies!

I'm coming out of my occassional but usual lurking to ask a question about placement for this summer and fall. First, thanks to you, Carrie, for such a great program. We completed Beyond this year and have started Bigger. We loved it and the kids beg for more and do happy dances when I pull the books out. My kids are dd (turning ten soon), ds (turning 7 at the end of the summer) and ds (will be four this fall). My daughter has had learning challenges but has progressed so fast this year that I am thinking she has turned a corner. This, combined with HOD, has made school much smoother than previous years. I am feeling very hopeful for this coming year but I do not want to get too ambitious. So, here is my question for Carrie and all of you ladies that have wisdom.

My daughter has recently developed an ability to work independently. She is also very interested in separating from her brother a bit. She loves American History and was very excited to do Bigger (we are on week 7 and have stalled out due to a local Science Fair, testing, birthdays and 4-H projects). We finished Beyond around February and we usually school through the summer as we take a long amount of time off in Nov, Dec and Jan. I find my daughter forgets much of her learning if we take too much time off. My son is struggling a bit with the work load in Bigger. He is only 6 right now and has been very willing to work along side his sister but I do not want to push him and create burn out in him. He has such a gentle spirit and is willing right now but I do not want to wreck that in him.

When I look at the placement chart, my daughter is really in the Hearts for CTC (which is new for her) and in 4 months will definately be able to take it on. My son is still working at the level of Bigger. As I type this I think I know what the answer will be but....I really wanted to keep them together and see my daughter finish her Bigger notebooks for Science and History. (sorry that was not meant to be a whine!) I feel like we have covered a sufficient amount this year and want to keep up MUS, FFL and AAS through the summer to keep from the forgetting and the required review that can discourage me. I would just scale back to three days a week and swimming lessons.

What would you recommend? Should I have them do Bigger together through the summer and start up Preparing when we are done? Or should I split them and have her start up Hearts for Him in the fall, maybe have her do Bigger independently through the summer as she wants? I like the simplicity of one program for two kids but I see my three year old (soon to be four) coming up and needing help in the area of school as well. So if I split up my older two I would eventually be doing three levels....which I know would sink me. Is there a good option that I cannot see or some wisdom from those that have worked through these levels? I cannot stress to you how much I want to avoid doing three different levels with three kids. This scares me and I know I would just not get any of it done as I am not very good a pacing myself and keeping kids separate and on track. We generally just school together and have loved that relaxed feeling over the years. But I see my daughter wanting some indepedence and my son not being able to rush through to the next level....sorry for the ramble. I knew before I started this that there were a lot of uncertainties but as I read this I see that I'm starting to worry about them. The only thing I am certain about is that we will be doing HOD again this year as it was a big hit, dense but easy to complete in a relaxed way. Please, any ideas as to how to make this happen with three kids at such different levels they cannot seem to work together.

Thanks ahead of time for any hints and encouragement!
Trina

[sharonb]

If your oldest is wanting more independence, I would have her do a program by herself. I know it's hard thinking about eventually doing 3 different programs, but by then your oldest (and even your 2nd child) should be doing a LOT of the work independently, so it shouldn't be too much of a burden on you. If my children were spaced out a little more like yours, I would place each in their own program. I'm only combining because my children are very close in age and I don't want to repeat programs without a year off in between.

[Kathleen]

Trina,

I was going to point out the same thing Sharon did. As you move up in the HOD programs, the child is doing much more work independently...so you won't be doing 3 complete programs. I haven't used anything past Bigger yet, but from looking at the programs, I love the way that Carrie has written the guides to keep the important discussion time with the parent, and allow the child to take on more of the things they can do independently. I'm guessing that Bigger is maybe the most teacher-intensive program as it's the higest level that doesn't have the child doing independent work.

I think your idea to have your dd go on to Creation to Christ and let your ds do Bigger (maybe even half-speed if you think it will help him grow into it) is a good one. Maybe someone else has more ideas, but if I were looking at my options I would have gone with what you said there.

Kathleen

[Carrie]

Treewin,

I'm so excited to hear what a good year your daughter and son have had with Beyond and now moving into Bigger Hearts. It's wonderful to hear about their progress and to see your daughter blooming!

At this point, I can see that your daughter is moving toward desiring some independence which is such a good thing. However, I also think it's important not to rush too quickly to too much independence,or too rigorous of a work load,or the bloom may fade away.

I think that Bigger Hearts is an excellent step-up in preparation for the more serious work that comes in programs like Preparing Hearts and Creation to Christ. It does a very good job of laying in place the foundational skills needed in language arts and math and transitioning kiddos to taking over more of their work themselves. Since your son and daughter both fit well within the target age-range of Bigger Hearts, I'd lean toward keeping them together throughout that program, using the Extension Pack for your daughter. In order not to overwhelm your son, I would also lean toward only doing the 3 R's through the summer and taking a break from Bigger Hearts (or you could as mentioned do it just 3 days a week, scaling back over the summer). At the end of summer, I would assess again how it's going for both kiddos. By then, your daughter will be further through Bigger Hearts and your daughter's skills will continue to be solidified. I would feel much more comfortable having her go from the end of Bigger into CTC then from Beyond to CTC, if needed. It is just such a huge jump. There is also still the possibility that you could keep your kiddos together for the left side of the plans and the storytime too, so I'd hate to have you miss out on that chance when your kiddos are doing well.

As far as working toward more independence for your daughter, I'd lean toward focusing on that through the Extension Pack readings (along with the suggested follow-up activities for the Extension Pack... oral narrations twice weekly, written narrations twice weekly, and one notebooking entry per week), also DITHR becomes very important at this stage, and a higher level of grammar instruction, along with harder dictation passages.

Just something else to consider as I know your time is at a premium being a single mom. Edited to add: I was thinking from the thread title that you were a single mom, however I'm wondering if I have this wrong now in re-reading the thread title? If so, I'm sorry for the confusion! Hats off to you for the progress that's been made and the wonderful year you've had!

Blessings,
Carrie

[my3sons]

Trina - You've already gotten such wonderful advice here. The HOD guides really do have more and more independent work in them, and I can see that as I'll soon be doing 3 programs, that will be such a nice benefit of having them in different guides (since my dc are all 3+ years apart). I think Carrie's idea of having dd keep going with Bigger Hearts through the summer is a good one. Your ds could work on his 3 R's, and then you could reflect and see what would be best. I say this for 3 reasons - 1: there is a BIG difference between the requirements of Beyond and CTC, and 2: doing Bigger will really help get your dd ready for the independence required of her in CTC (or PHFHG), and 3: you are feeling overwhelmed at the thought of doing 3 HOD programs in the future and keeping these 2 together somehow is one way to make sure that won't happen (though who knows, you may change your mind about that over time )

In Christ,
Julie

[Treewin]

Thanks to everyone for the wise responses. Following your advice I am trying this week to get dd to work indep on Bigger and hold on it for my son. She seemed able to do two boxes yestarday by herself without too much trouble. But she is somewhat reluctant to make it a permenant expectation. Carrie you really seemed to know that in your post. She does not want to be rushed!! I would have missed that I think.

I was looking over the Preparing and the CTC *with* her two nights ago and she mentioned that she had read Hillyers book to herself several times. I think I knew that and wanted to skip over it, for her especially. My son has not read it and he would find the stories more interesting. He would definately benefit from that time together and the one on one reading but she would just find it repetative. It is a great choice for a spine just not what she would find challenging or interesting right now.

I agree the CTC is a big jump for her to make. This I worry about, as I am either too quick to switch out of something or to committed to my choice. If it did not match her well I would not first think of tweaking it a little (nor would I have the skill to do that). So the CTC would really need to be an obvious fit. I think the idea of doing Bigger for now and then transfering to CTC half pace would work. That would mean she would have time to grow into it and she could develop the skills for the independent work before committing to the challenge of CTC. Ds could have all summer and wait for the Bigger level until he was more ready.

Carrie, you were right the second time, I am happily married to a great guy. The title of my post was confusing. No problem for me, unless it changes your recomendations of how to manage the levels for my two oldest next year. I'm thinking that RRR's for ds this summer and Bigger independently with RRR's for dd this summer would help us prepare for CTC this fall for her and the remainder of Bigger for ds. We could work up to September and then re-evaluate then, if God wills it. What do you think? Is this close to what you were thinking. I'm afraid I may be reading into what you said and not hearing what you realy meant.

Thanks for all your time ladies, you have been a real blessing!
Trina

[Carrie]

Trina,

I'm so sorry that I wasn't clearer! I'll try to do better! I was thinking that you would just keep going as you have been with both ds and dd together for the remainder of Bigger Hearts. I was thinking that if you wanted to stop Bigger this summer, except for the 3 R's with both of your kiddos then that would give your son time to grow into Bigger Hearts before you pick up back up again with both kiddos in the fall.

I think keeping your two kiddos together through Bigger Hearts is a good idea. I wouldn't rush into anything new right now, since your daughter is making excellent progress. Then, when you finish Bigger Hearts with the pair of them, you can see about sending your daughter into CTC and keeping your son (possibly at half-speed if needed in Preparing Hearts), or you could keep them together through Preparing if all is going well.

On a sidenote, my own oldest son reread Hillyer's A Child's History of the World several times as well and the way it is done in CTC is much different than just reading the text, so it's always an option to keep your kiddos together for the long haul (even through Preparing Hearts) if it's going well.

I would work toward having your daughter have more independence in the areas I listed previously in my post (DITHR, English, math, dictation) and I would also lean toward having her do the science box of Bigger Hearts on her own each day. Then, in that scenario you'd still do the science box separately with your son. The science box was one of the first ones I handed over to my son when he was working toward more independence in Bigger Hearts.

I would also have your daughter read the directions for the Reading About History Box and have her get out the needed books and be ready for you each day, or she could do the readings in that box on her own earlier in the day and then join you for the corresponding activities and discussion later.

Next, I would have her read the bottom left hand box of the history plans each day on her own and set up the activity as much as possible while you oversee it and participate in it with your son. This will give her guidance in reading and following directions right from the guide.

She can also read from the guide to play the correct hymn and verses each day.

Last, if your daughter hasn't been doing a written narration, or oral narration, or notebooking with the Extension Pack readings each day, I would definitely add that in. It is excellent preparation for what is expected in CTC and is also can be very independent. If she writes well, you may require a short written narration after her extension reading 4 days a week and one notebooking session once a week on what she read that day. I did this with my oldest son and saw excellent progress in his writing. If writing is tough for her, then require 2 orals a week, 2 short writtens, and 1 notebooking entry on the extension pack instead.

Anyway, these ideas worked well for me when I was doing Bigger Hearts and working my son toward more independence.

Blessings,
Carrie

[mskogen]

Carrie,
I love the ideas you shared about teaching my son to be independent as we work through Bigger. He loves to be independent. Thanks for sharing so many differnet ideas and options!

[Carrie]

Michelle,

I just edited my post above to be a bit clearer, so you may want to take one more look! For your son, I'd also have him read the guide in the language arts and math areas and have those books out and ready when you come (getting started without you if at all possible on things like cursive, studying the dictation passage, having the poem ready, having his DITHR books out and ready, starting on reading the grammar lesson, beginning his math assignment, etc.)

I'm so glad these ideas help. They were just what I needed when I was working toward independence with my kiddos too.

Blessings,
Carrie