Newbie with Placement ? for Bigger Hearts

[nowweare6]

Hello All: I have been searching for curriculum, reading this discussion group etc so much my head is spinning! I emailed Carrie with a placement ? but since I have "ants in my pants" I thought I would post it here to get some direction. I'm anxious to order! I also had a couple of additional ?s

Here is my original email
Hello: I was so excited to find your website! I am considering bringing my 4 kids home from a small Christian school to homeschool them. I am very interested in your program after considering SonLight, My Father's World and Tapestry of Grace. I had a question re: placement. I have an 8 yr old girl(very good reader), a 9 year old boy (decent reader but doesn't love it!), a 11 year old boy(getting better at reading, reads books like Andrew Clements Jake Drake series), and a almost 12 year old girl(slow reader, ? her comprehension she is reading Old Yeller in larger print right now). I was leaning towards The Bigger Hearts for His Glory with the expansion set but hate to miss the chronological history of Beyond. I really want to teach all four with the same curriculum except math and tweaking grammar. What do you suggest? Currently, our two younger kids are in 2nd grade, our 11 yr old is in 4th grade and our almost 12 year old is in 5th. We had made the decision to "hold" a couple of them back while we were fostering and adopting. I'm not hung up on grade levels but just want them to have an excellent worldview of history by the time we are done with them! Thanks for your time. Monica Peoria, Illinois

Here are the additional ?'s:
1) Seeing as I had attempted homeschool several years ago and gave up, I'm a little concerned about my ability to pull it off. In order to prove that I am reliable I would really like to start the curriculum this summer but but maybe stretch one week into two-three so my kids get there summer break. I was wondering if the lessons are seasonally linked( fall, Thanksgiving etc) and if I started it early I would diminish it in any way.
2)I was concerned about math. I will have two 3rd graders and either 2 5th or 1 5th, 1 6th depending on placement. I had heard some discouraging remarks re: Singapore but frankly I can't remember what they were! I would like something that has manipulatives so help the kids really grasp concepts. I really like math but want the lessons to be reasonable. Do you guys like the math program?
3) Do you have anything you recommend for keyboard/typing skills
4) My kids have at Spanish at their school, one day per week, I would like to contnue this learning but not intense as I know no Spanish? Any good computer programs for their age level.
Thanks so much for your time! I really appreciate all the posts that have been so helpful in giving a good picture of this program. Monica

[inHistiming]

My initial thought, if you would like to combine them all together, would be to possibly try Bigger... Beyond... is great, but may be a little 'young' for your older kids. It would be great for 2nd graders though, we used it for dd in 2nd, so if you decided not to keep them all together it would be a wonderful starting point for your 2nd graders. Have you looked at the placement chart? Here is the link:

http://heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

The placement chart is very helpful when determining which level fits your child.

We are using Bigger... this year, combining my 5th and 3rd graders; it has worked well so far. We are using the extension pack which helps to 'beef' it up for my older ds in science and history. So, you may consider that for your older two.

We switched back to Singapore math after using something else for each child last year (free books given to us) and I have to say both children like Singapore much better. They enjoy the workbook format as opposed to copying problems from a textbook, and they have really flourished with it this year. We are planning to stick with this program until we get to the point where Carrie recommends a switch (in the higher levels).

I'm sure others will be along with their suggestions. Good luck with your decision, and welcome to HOD!

[nowweare6]

Thanks for the feedback. I think I should clarify that my kids are in 2nd grade now but will be in 3rd next year. The older two are (6 months apart age wise) on would be 5/6th next year. Would Beyond be challenging enough for them? Thanks!

[water2wine]

Hi and welcome! I understand what you are saying about wanting to know for sure you can pull it off. From the outside HOD looks like it might be harder to pull off. But I want to encourage you that it is so well written we have found it our easiest program ever. We have six kids. I also have some that are 3 and 6 months apart as well in fact. And on top of all that I have one with special needs. It has been perfect for us. No matter what our day is like HOD fits perfect.

On the chronological aspect and missing something with Beyond if your kids are more fit for Bigger, I would not worry about that. They are written to be more in sync with their development and ability rather than a history cycle. I would look carefully at the placement chart and then let that really guide you http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php I went right into Bigger with my oldest four and we are finding that it is plenty for American History. They will get more of it again in Preparing a bit and then later they will have two more years of it again. I think you will find that they have the history cycle covered very well and more importantly you will find they really learn to see God's hand in it very well.

I want to encourage you too in the area of having put them back in school. I started out with my first four and really got some bad combination of things together. They were some things that I see now why I was overwhelmed and felt I could not do it. I listened to other people and put them back then years later regretted it. I can tell you now that we are hsers for life. I think HOD is a program that is very user friendly. There is so much support here on the boards and with the author I think you can be very confident that you will be successful. We will use HOD for as long as they write them. HOD helps you pull together school very easily and gives us organization and follow through we would not have on our own. I think you will find it a great help.

I know others will have perfect recommendations on the rest. I just wanted to encourage you that you can do this and will love it! Welcome to HOD!

[inHistiming]

Okay, I see in your post now that you said they would be 3rd, 5th, and possibly 6th grade levels. Sorry I missed that!

So, Beyond...might be a little 'light' for all of them depending on where they are on the placement chart. You probably would be able to combine them all in Bigger... after all, using the extension pack for your older two...and possibly getting some recommendations from Carrie about how to 'beef' if up more for the 6th grade child, if that ends up being the case. Then you could just have them all working at their own levels in L.A. and Math. Seems to me like it would work.

[ftmommy2three]

Hello and welcome to HOD!

I just wanted to comment on your concern with Singapore math. I cannot really comment on the Beyond/Bigger questions since we are in our 2nd year of using LHFHG. As for Singapore, I have heard a lot of good things and some not as good. I have some friends using it with their children and seem to enjoy it. We used it last year for LHFHG (Singapore Earlybird) and my kids did "OK" but I really had a feeling that they did not retain what they were learning. They seemed to need a program that used manipulatives, as you have menitioned that you were looking for, and so after much research and a lot of positive feedback from other users, we switched to Math-U-See. It has been a blessing for us this year because I really feel like they are understanding so much more than last year with Singapore. It uses manipulatives (blocks) and teaches children not only to memorize their math facts but to understand how they came up with the answers, anotherwords, to "see" what they are learning in math! This is WAY different than how I learned math growing up and I am amazed at how well they are learning and RETAINING math this year! I'm learning too! I think that there are some other MUS users on this forum so you may want to check out their comments as well.

I think Singapore is a good program and Carrie's math activities that follow each Singapore lesson are well written and helpful, but we all learn differently and I find that MUS is a good fit for my little learners who are hands on and need to understand, not just memorize!

Just my 2 cents worth! Good luck with whatever you chose and enjoy homeschooling your little ones! You'll do fine and HOD curriculum is an excellent choice! We love it!

~Jenea

[Mommamo]

I just wanted to chime in that we LOVE Singapore, having started with RightStart, and that Carrie's activities are great and have really helped my oldest (5) understand math. She's already finished Singapore 1A and is about to start 1B so it might be worth considering, at least. But HOD is really made to work with any math that you choose to use.

[Riversidemom3]

Hello and welcome!

This is my first year with HOD. I am using Bigger this year combining my 2nd and 4th grader. It has been a great fit for us. The only other curriculum that you mentioned you are considering that I have tried to use is MFW. I used Adventures last year. I know that many like it and it is a good program, however, it really tried my organizational skills. I just couldn't wrap my brain around the way the manual was set up. Bigger is a lot of fun - we are enjoying it. Even my high-schooler will see our activities and want to join in on the fun. New for us this year as well is Singapore math. I decided to give it a try. I don't put too much weight on reviews as math is so personal for each child. My ds8 can do anything I give him while my dd10 struggles more. She has her multiplication facts memorized but really has a hard time with story problems and being able to decipher if I add, subtract, multiply, is it a two-step, etc.. Because Singapore is so strong on mental math it is helping her get a deeper understanding. Without my asking them they both have said that they really like these math books. Regardless which program you settle in on you are guaranteed to make wonderful memories with your kids that will last a lifetime.

Jeri

[Jessi]

I totally can't help you here as we are only in LHFHG, but I am from Shelbyville IL and saw you were from Peoria! Nice to have a fellow Illini here. Are you going to hearts at home? Just curious, since its your home turf. Welcome to HOD! This is a great place. Everyone is so helpful.

[Carrie]

Since you and I corresponded earlier by email on much of your other post, I will include my comments from another thread, discussing Singapore math (which may be of benefit in this thread too). I'll paste it below:

While you can easily use any math program you prefer along with HOD, I do need to clarify a few things about Singapore math. Singapore is actually known for its higher level thinking, its mental math, and its focus on understanding the "why" behind the "how". Its strength is in helping kiddos analyze and understand where the math rules and processes come from. This emphasis on higher level thinking is also the reason why some kiddos have a bit of a struggle sometimes with Singapore math, and why you'll hear mixed reviews about it at times, like you will with any math program.

In the end, those who stay with Singapore typically end up testing very well and having a good understanding of math. It's a math program that is used by many public, private, and homeschools across the nation, and it holds up well under rigorous inspection of concept coverage and is known to have an advanced scope and sequence.

I don't believe in a one-size fits all approach to math, however I do think Singapore comes much closer in meeting that goal than most. Many programs such as Math-U-See, Rod and Staff, ABeka, and Saxon go the drill, drill, drill route in order to get kiddos to have the concepts down pat. Singapore takes a different approach, with fewer problems that are of a higher level. At times, some students may need some extra practice on concepts to cement what Singapore provides. However, at our house we haven't found the need to supplement yet. We've also found that it is easier to add additional practice or flashcard drills than it is to add higher-level thinking or more mental math.

With my oldest son, we used a year of Math-U-See, and the amount of repitition was stifling for us. While I really appreciated Mr. Demme's math presentations, I also was not able to stay on top of watching the DVD first, before presenting to my son, so I could stay ahead of my son in his daily math lessons. I mention this to say that all math programs will have moms who will share that they LOVE it, and moms who will share that they DISLIKE it. It is truly difficult to judge a math program if it hasn't been used for more than one year. My experience with Math-U-See may have been different if I had stayed with the program for more than one year. This is true of most Singapore users too.

So, if you're considering Singapore, I'd encourage you to commit to using it for more than one year. You'll definitely see the fruit after that time. All math programs will also have times when your kiddos will hit snags or bumps in the road. Staying with a program through the bumps helps keep your kiddo's math path consistent and will lessen their gaps.

If you're having tears every day with math for an extended period of time, then it is time to switch programs. If not, you're most likely fine with what you have. The one other red flag on math programs is if your child is testing very poorly in the area of math on standardized tests. While I don't put a ton of weight on this, it is one way to show a problem with the math program you're using not being a good fit for your kiddo.

Mathematical retention is difficult to judge when kiddos are young. It often comes and goes, and sometimes the retention you think you're getting with a new math program is just the fruit of the math program that came before. I share this to show that all math programs will have mixed reviews, because moms often don't stay with a math program long enough to see it's fruit. I know this because I have been guilty of it myself.

Blessings,
Carrie

[nowweare6]

WOW everyone! Thank you all for your feedback and advice. I can't tell how much it has helped me in making my choices. I can't wait to place my order and will have to put it in the attic so that I don't start it as soon as it arrives! I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Making these decisions can seem so overwhelming but I feel like I have clarity now! Carrie: Thank you for your detailed explanation re: math. It really helped me to "ignore" what others have said and think about how my kids learn and what they need to master a concept. I'm starting to wonder if the success of homeschooling is based more on confidence of the mother and less on what "systems" we use! I think this curriculum will be an excellent tool to give me the structure and security I need and provide fun discovery filled learning for my kids. Thanks!

[netpea]

You mentioned wanting the chronological overview of history. Bigger does a timeline that is really helpful in seeing where people fit in American History. I Think you could easily combine all your kids in Bigger with Extensions.

[Alison in KY]

my 2 cents

Right now I'm getting the feel of things using Beyond with a soon to be 10, 8, and 6 yr old. My 8 and 6 yr olds aren't really reading yet...one is in the middle of phonics (it's been a long road!) and the other is just getting started. I just wanted to say that if you like what Beyond covers, I personally don't see it being boring for an older student...it's not boring at all for me. The history reading and the story time is doable. It isn't like other programs that have you reading out of several different books at once, plus reading alot. I don't mind reading aloud, but for short stints is better for me and my tongue gets wooly after awhile. The good news is that you can't go wrong with either Bigger or Beyond, so just pick one and go with it and try not to look back. You can always use great books to beef up the program for your older students.

See my responses below concerning your other questions

1)Seeing as I had attempted homeschool several years ago and gave up, I'm a little concerned about my ability to pull it off. In order to prove that I am reliable I would really like to start the curriculum this summer but but maybe stretch one week into two-three so my kids get there summer break. I was wondering if the lessons are seasonally linked( fall, Thanksgiving etc) and if I started it early I would diminish it in any way.I haven't seen anything seasonal in Beyond, so I don't really think so. You'll do just fine. Try to take the pressure off yourself, accept that you are a homeschool mom and things are just different when you are a homeschooling family. And try to have fun
2)I was concerned about math. I will have two 3rd graders and either 2 5th or 1 5th, 1 6th depending on placement. I had heard some discouraging remarks re: Singapore but frankly I can't remember what they were! I would like something that has manipulatives so help the kids really grasp concepts. I really like math but want the lessons to be reasonable. Do you guys like the math program? I'm another Math U SEE user here. I started off with Singapore and gave it three years. Within those three years I looked at several different programs that didn't work for us...I was looking elsewhere because I was doubting my ability with Singapore. At this point, I would say that I think Singapore is a great program, and like Carrie said it's well known for it's mental math. I will probably plan on using Singapore as a supplement, something to use with my kids during the summer, etc. I'm currently stopped in MathUSee for my oldest until he learns his multiplication facts better...so I'm filling in the time with factsheets and finishing MUS 2A. I have heard that it is easier to start early in Singapore instead of coming in on the higher grades. They have a placement test I believe that you can use to see where they test, and I think it's totally normal for them to test below grade level. My personal issue with Singapore is that it moved really fast and I didn't understand (it wasn't stated alot) what exactly was expected of my kids when. For instance in the early grades we would do addition and the program would keep moving on say after covering 4's...but I wouldn't know if my kids, once we passed the first few pages of 4's, were supposed to have it down cold, or if they could use manipulatives (not with the program). It just isn't a scripted (not that like all scripted programs) program. I believe in Singapore the teachers have additional training on how to use this program, in America you won't get that (and I'm sorry if I'm wrong on this, I'm going by memory and time spent on the singapore yahoo group). MUS uses the manipulatives and it's a very common sense program IMHO...different math topics are taught together. Money isn't taught in isolation, but you will learn how to count nickels when you learn skip counting by 5's. Same goes with using a clock and counting 5 minutes, 10 minutes, etc. We covered 2's in multiplying and we covered quarts and pints in that unit. It's not a typical math program. You will master areas, like addition, then move on to the next book. Because of the way it is layed out, you will not do great on standardized tests. That's because it masters a subject before moving on, so you won't get that mix up of math info. But it's that mix up of math info that messed us up. In the end, Singapore just moved to fast for us and I didn't know how to use it. IF you are a great math teacher, confident in your ability then you probably will like it. If that's not you, then I'd definitely check out MUS, especially with your description of your children. And for what it's worth, lots of people will use Singapore's Challenging Word problems as a supplement to their regular math program. It's tough having so many good choices. So again, if you run into tears with any program, then switch. Oh, one more thing about MUS, it has 3 main new lesson pages and 3 pages of review...but if your kids are getting it then you just move on, so it doesn't have to drill things like crazy. I don't know if you can PM here, but if you'd like to ask more questions directly then feel free.
3) Do you have anything you recommend for keyboard/typing skills We use and like Typing Instructor. Just remember to check what computer windows it is compatible with
4) My kids have at Spanish at their school, one day per week, I would like to contnue this learning but not intense as I know no Spanish? Any good computer programs for their age level. Don't know about this one, but you can check out www.homeschoolreviews.com website (if that addy won't work then try www.homeschoolingreviews.com). I think Latin For children is coming out with a spanish program this year, but I'm not sure. Or you can go ask at the well trained mind message board.
Thanks so much for your time! I really appreciate all the posts that have been so helpful in giving a good picture of this program. Monica

[nowweare6]

I know this is a broken record posting but Thank You! These suggestions are so helpful! I placed my first order yesterday for the Economy Bigger and the Drawn Into Heart of Reading. I'm planning on getting familiar with it then ordering the books, science etc. Yesterday I went to our local homeschool assoc. "Look-See" It is an opportunity to check out curriculum that other people are using. Of course, there was nothing there like HOD. There was some good CM stuff but nothing that was so spelled out and organized for the teacher. I was daydreaming about being there next year with my HOD stuff. I really feel like this is a curriculum a lot of folks are looking for but since it doesn't yet have the name recognition that some of the other programs have some are nervous to take the leap. Can't wait to get my stuff! Thanks again!

[Carrie]

nowweare6,

I think you made a great decision in ordering Bigger Hearts and Drawn into the Heart for your crew. Having the guides in hand will help you get a feel for those programs and both will work well across the age levels you mentioned. You'll need to beef up the language arts and math for your older kiddos, but you may already have ideas on how to do that. Otherwise, we can gladly help in those areas as well.

We pray you'll get a chance to love Bigger as much as we did when we used it with our son last year. If you have other questions, ask away. The ladies on the board are so wonderful about helping one another.

Blessings,
Carrie