Some WG woes

[sted]

Hi,

My daughter has successfully used Bigger, CTC, RTR, then took a year off for Canadian History and returned to do the new WG. She seemed to love all the other programs but seems to be struggling with this one. I think it's that the topic of geography has not really "grabbed" her but perhaps it was too big a jump skill and content wise for her? She's 14 1/2 years old and techinically in Grade 10. I thought she "needed" to be in this program based on skill/age etc. but now I'm second guessing our decision. Maybe it's just a phase of not wanting to study something she'd not that personally interested in? She complained a month or so ago but we encouraged her to persist. I tried to narrow down which book she was having trouble with, and it seems mostly with the Book of Discovery. I'm hopeful it' s more the ancient history part of it that is bogging her down. The World Religions seems to be going well. Any tips? I'm reluctant to change programs (go down to MTMM) however I know she expressed more interest in studying modern history rather than ancient again. Is there a way we as parents should be more involved - for example, pre-read all the books? We have read some, but not all, so that we can discuss it with her and get her excited about it, but I'm worried that she will get a bad taste for history/geography in the future Any advice would be appreciated.


Shannon

[Molly]

I see you are obviously tremendously busy with your family. I am going to suggest perhaps doing that one book with her if it is bogging her down. I think it is a real skill to be able to read a book that you really don't want too, but I also think support in learning to do that would be helpful. Are either you or your husband able to do it with her? The other thing, is the workload a little much, can she slow down a little for a while? It sounds like she is very capable of doing the level of work, but I think sometimes a slow down can help to get them through a bit of a hump with something.

Hope this helps some and doesn't come across as an I know it all. My oldest is only in RtR, so you can take it with a grain of salt.

[LynnH]

We are only in MTMM, but I have read The Book of Discovery so here are some of my thoughts. That is a tough book. It is one of those books you can't just read mindlessly. You really have to think as you read it. It is definitely a high school level book. When I read it I found myself getting confused at times and having to look at maps or make a real effort to follow what is going on. I had talked to Carrie about this and she said that is why they include the videos, other books, mapping activities etc. These visuals will help with the comprehension, but again dc will have to purposefully make the connections. Since your dd missed doing Rev to Rev and especially MTMM she missed out on some of the books and activities that would have prepared her for that type of book and the thinking required. The Worthy Words activity in MTMM with the Socratic discussion with the parent is one that comes to mind that really helps prepare a student for understanding The Book of Discovery. The other thing in MTMM is higher level books over all. One in science called Atoms in the Family is a tough adult level book and my ds is struggling with written and oral narrations with it, but I see it as training ground for next year. Since the last level of HOD she used was RTR with a very colorful book like MOH then I imagine The Book of Discovery is somewhat of a shock to her. I can understand not wanting to back down a level since she is so far into it, but you might need to come along side of her some and help her to make the connections.

My other thoughts pertain to when a student doesn't like something. Having graduated a highschooler who is now in college I can say that high school is very different from the lower levels. Not that it can't be fun, but because of what is expected it honestly just isn't as fun and carefree as the lower levels. In high school my dd had to take classes and read books that she just didn't care for. She wasn't too happy about it at the time, but we talked about the fact that in college and in a career there will be things you don't like, but you still need to do all things as if working for the Lord. She just finished up her first semester of college and she is glad that we had those discussions back then and that I made her do things she didn't like in school. It prepared her for the classes in college she hasn't liked. She has seen many students that take one class they don't like and they change their major or they just skip that class. I think her generation is too used to the easy life so if things get hard or they don't like something they think they shouldn't have to do that. I don't want my dc to think like that.

One last question I am wondering about is that you say she is 14 1/2 and considered in 10th grade. Maybe it is the difference between Canada and the US, but my ds is 14 1/2 and if he were still in ps he would be in 9th grade and would be a young 9th grader at that since his birthday is the end of May. In fact because he is young for his grade and because I knew he wasn't quite ready for the depth of study and the amount of work required in high school yet we decided to delay high school a year. So did you skip a grade with her or is that just how Canada works?

[sted]

Thanks everyone it's so nice to get input.

Yes, I do believe that some adjusting has to be done in the higher grades to the workload required and sometime subjects just aren't "fun" anymore. I've had to have that talk with her. I guess my only big concern is she's actually a pretty bright student, so when she is running into roadblocks, it worries me. I think a great part of the equation is that we just had baby number 7 this past summer, so come September, it was/has been difficult to really help her get started on the program and what the expectations were etc. However, that also plays into a somewhat limited parental involvement when so many other children are needing my help, including a baby and 2 year old. She told me tonight she'd like to try and keep doing it, maybe at half speed because she feels like a quitter. I'm thinking that maybe if she went down a level, she might feel more confident and not need so much parent time especially when we don't have it

Lynn, to answer you question about grades/age in Canada, ,In Alberta here if you are 5 before March 1st you can start Kindergarten. Of course with homeschooling she was ready to "start" early so technically she is in grade 10, however sometimes I wish she was still in grade 9 and then we could slow down a bit, with thinking about preparing for post-secondary. An alternative would be to add another year on the end (do grade 12 twice) which might make this possible as well.

Shannon

[8arrows]

There is a big jump in skills. Only you as the mom will know if it would be wise to back up a guide. I wanted to reassure you that sometimes high school students just need help. Some of the worst homeschooling advice I ever received was the continual "encouragement" that by the time our children got to high school they would be completely teaching themselves. I have greatly struggled with this. It just was not a reality in my house. My oldest boys are pretty smart cookies; however, high school gets tough. Sometimes our kids just need a teacher with skin on (instead of just great books and well written textbooks) to help them talk through a math problem or pool ideas together for an essay. Sometimes they just want a "friend" to study with. I have 8 children, so I understand that it is hard. I have 2 graduated now, but I remember nursing and potty training while trying to teach the upper level math and science classes the boys were undertaking. One of the reasons I switched to HOD was that I believe HOD does do a better job of training students to independence. I have also always thought HOD does a great job of acknowledging the student's needs through the I, S, and T labels in the boxes. My daughter, who has grown up through more HOD is more independent, but she still likes (and needs) mom to be her teacher. My "issues" in this area may not apply to you, but if they do not encourage you or speak to your current situation, maybe they will be helpful to someone else.
Also, if it encourages you, my 10th grader is doing MTMM, and she is 15.

[Carrie]

Shannon,

I'm so sorry to hear that your daughter is having struggles with the WG guide! Honestly, the jump in skills from RTR (skipping over Rev2Rev and MTMM) is absolutely huge! Please encourage your daughter that in no way is this a reflection of her abilities, it is just truly too big of a jump in skills to be navigated successfully.

From my perspective, when we give advice to families, we ponder long and hard before ever advocating skipping past one guide (much less two). The reason for this is that we want the transition into each guide to be just enough, but not too much to be overwhelming! If you miss the incremental transitions, then what you are left with is a huge leap. While it is possible that with a ton of help/coaching and coming alongside her you could get her successfully through this year, it is important to ask whether you want to have that experience/burden every year?

With this in mind, I would highly recommend backing her up to either Rev2Rev or MTMM. We can help with figuring out needed credits for high school to align with her perspective future plans. It is so much better to enjoy a guide and feel successful with it, then to grit your teeth and endure a guide.

What did she do last year? If she has already had World History, then you could do Rev2Rev (with government) for the rest of grade 10 and part of grade 11, followed by MTMM (with Economics) for the rest of grade 11 and part of grade 12, and then do the remaining part of the World Geography guide her senior year. Since she has already done part of the WG guide, then when you return to it her senior year, I would simply pick back up with where she left off and finish the guide out from there. That way the work she did this year in the World Geography guide will not be wasted, and she'll still finish everything on time for graduation without cramming anything in. Or, perhaps, you have a different scope needed for Canada that we need to consider? We can discuss science and literature too if need be to figure that out too.

Rev2Rev and MTMM are very rich guides, so I do think she would enjoy them (especially since she liked RTR and felt successful there).

Blessings,
Carrie

[Nealewill]

Shannon

It is hard if you tell your kids they are in a certain grade! My girls both started school a little early and my son late. So my 2 younger children are both very close in abilities. We have pretty much told them (and this is just us) that they don't graduate till they finish the last guide (which we can say since we are on the schedule where they are the younger ages and we don't add any extensions). We have told them a grade they can tell people who ask but everything we use isn't grade specific so it kind of takes the burden off of us a bit. Plus, when we get evaluated each year (where I live we can take a standardized test or get a certified teacher evaluation) she only cares if they are progressing. She is a wonderful person, very helpful, and very encouraging with everything I do. My kids are all over the map with abilities too so I could never say you actually in xyz grade because they are at such different levels for each subject as well

Praying for you decision to have your DD stay in school an extra year. I personally feel very frustrated myself that my son's language skills are so delayed because he will probably graduate when his younger sister graduates (she will be a year or two ahead and he will be a year behind) but that is life. And as my husband says - I just need to get over it LOL!!!! My kids don't care that they do the same thing (with the exception of math). And realistically, I shouldn't care either. I want him a certain level when he does graduate. I want him to enjoy school, be challenged but not over whelmed. And I teach college level accounting classes - it NEVER ceases to amaze me that there are so many skills people still don't have even after graduating high school. I have vowed that when my children graduate high school, they will at least have accomplished the education feats that top of my list. I only say this because it does make college so much easier when they are more than prepared for it. Praying for your decision about your daughter.

[sted]

Thanks Carrie and Nealewill!

So encouraging to get feedback. I'm so glad you suggested the idea to go back to Rev to Rev. We've been thinking that too and that is what we are going to do! It avoids us having gaps in history and I think she will really enjoy it.

About the grades, yes, I hate thinking in grades as well, but I guess I sometimes succumb to outside pressure such as when people (sometimes Grandparents) ask the children what grades they are in.

We are actually extremely blessed here in Alberta that if you are a "traditional" home educator you don't need to do any standardized testing. Each post-secondary institution has it's own requirements but taking a SAT test and showing a portfolio seems to be sufficient for several of them. So as far as Canadian requirements, for better or worse, getting into post-secondary is a very individual endeavor depending on which institution you are trying to get into and even which program. We don't really even talk credits here for high school, just a high school diploma. Just a note of interest, the SAT test is not required if you have a high school diploma either. However, we are not going the high school diploma route as that requires following the Alberta Public School Curriculum .

Thanks so much, looking forward to Rev to Rev!

Happy New Year!
Shannon

[sted]

Just an update. We (well actually my daughter) decided to stick with World Geography. I gave her the option of going back a guide or two but in the end she wanted to persist and work hard to get WG done this year. I think the prospect of starting a new program mid-year didn't sit well with her so we are going to work with her and help her with the stumbling blocks she's run across. Academics have always come fairly easy to her and I think she was taken aback when it just wasn't as easy as she thought or as it has been up until now. I admire her willingness to keep going and told her if she needs to it down a bit, we can certainly do it. We started a couple days last week and so far, so good. With baby settling into more of routine, my husband and I can hopefully keep up with the program better as well. Will keep you posted! Thanks for everyone's help and reassurance. I'm a little sad she's not going to be doing Rev to Rev or MMTM in terms of content, but I'm hoping that next year's HOD plans might cover some of those years:)

Shannon