memorizing & CM philosophy

[tpschettle]

Hi, everyone!

I'm new to HOD this month...using Bigger for my 2nd grader. This is my first post. Let me first say thank you to Carrie for putting together such a wonderful curriculum. Thank you also to all the wonderful question and answer sessions on this forum. I've been reading a lot these last few days & researching my questions.

We're struggling with the discussion & narration aspects of the curriculum. We had the same problem with Sonlight when we used it a few years ago. My ultimate reason for abandoning it was that he just was getting nothing out of the read-alouds & discussions. My son is very smart: he basically self-teaches Saxon math (he'll finish 2nd grade in January), he reads chapter books, he's 2/3 of the way done with R&S English and Reading. He's very independent. He has many strengths, but communicating is not one of them. He has some speech problems. Furthermore, auditory is his weakest learning style.

I agree with much of CM philosophy, especially using living books. I'm going to use all the great narration tips in the book and on the forum. I think we'll slow down to half-pace until he gets used to it.

But I think what would really help him is memorizing the character qualities that we talk about. Right now, I'm having to reteach the character quality at Bible time every day. He gives me a deer-in-the-headlight stare & doesn't remember what it means. Understanding good Christian character and being able to discern it when we see it (or don't see it) in a book is the one main reason we are using HOD. It is very important to me that he grasps this.

The idea of memorizing doesn't seem very CM to me though. I've included a lot of memorizing in my curriculum over the years. I'm convinced this alone is what helped my older son grasp R&S English 4 (we put the key concepts on fill-in-the blank review cards & went through them at the beginning of every lesson. Prior to that I spent more time reteaching old lessons than teaching the new one! ) Am I correct in my perception that memorizing and CM don't go together? If so, why not? And how important is a purely CM methodology? Is it really the best choice for all learning styles?

Thanks so much for your input!

[MelInKansas]

I don't know that I am an expert in Charlotte Mason, I have read a few of her writings and a book that was based on her philosophy, or claimed to be. Here is my personal take on it though. I have also read about Classical education where the child basically memorizes a lot of facts, and then as they grow up they learn many of the reasons and philosophies related to the facts they have memorized, and they learn how to use the information they know to think critically. If I understand you correctly, you are thinking of having your son memorize the definition of the character qualities in each unit, right? I don't see a problem with that, in fact I think it's a good idea. What you should NOT do is have him memorize or think there is a certain answer to the discussion questions that go along with the character qualities. I have had to stop myself from giving answers when my DD doesn't know or can't think of anything. Because I think by doing that I am reinforcing that there is a "right" answer. Though I usually do say "I think...." (and sometimes I do this even when she has said an answer, but I do it because I want her to think about it, not because I am saying my answer is right and hers is wrong).

If this is your son's start in doing narration and having discussion questions to answer, gentle prodding, encouragement when he is able to make any connections, and just continued practice and he will get there! It is not an easy skill to learn. I don't remember if Bigger does this, but in Beyond there is a lot of modelling, or give-and-take for the narrations. It has you start out and then ask the child to add in anything you may have forgotten, or you go back and forth, you start, tap the child and say "your turn" and then they say a few things and then can pass it back to you. And even when children seem to struggle and have no clue what to say, they can learn it and it is amazing when they do. My oldest is now starting to really do well as long as I follow the directions and don't interrupt her train of thought. Oh my, it is hard for me to not jump in!

One other thought on re-reading your original post. My DD also does not absorb information well by hearing. She actually reads over my shoulder. I also found it helps a lot (which I think the guide says this but I wasn't always doing it) when I tell her before I read that she will have to narrate. Again, your son probably just needs time to get used to it, but for my daughter, knowing it when we start helps her focus I guess. And if it encourages you, my daughter very often could not remember the character traits as we would talk about them throughout the week. I always just hoped that by the end it would stick. They come back again in DITHR and we have gone over them multiple times it seems, but many of them are pretty hard words that are hard to remember the meanings of.

I hope this helps. Welcome to the Board, to HOD, to Bigger Hearts. I hope it will bless you guys like it has me!

[8arrows]

Use what works! I am glad that you have found that memorizing works for your child. I understand why companies use labels to explain their educational philosophy, but I don't choose curriculum based on labels. I chose curriculum based on what works. This is my understanding of CM and memorizing, summarized on a blog:

Charlotte Mason thought memorization was very important. She felt that children should memorize poetry and literature that caused their heart to sing. If you read many biographies of those who achieved great things, you will find that many, many of these people practiced the art of memorization and could recite whole passages of great works of literature, poetry and scripture. Why? Because it fed their soul.

Miss Mason also believed there was value in memorizing some helpful facts such as mathematical formulas, important dates, arithmetic facts and important grammar rules. She just felt that this should not be the main goal in memorization.

[Carrie]

Excellent advice and help has already been shared, so I'll just pop-in to mention that as you journey through the guides you will see that we do just what 8arrows mentioned. We do have children memorize Scripture every day in each guide. The passages get longer as the children get older. We do have kiddos memorize poetry as well. Rod and Staff English promotes much memorization through its repetition, which actually veers away somewhat from CM style memorization in its intensity. However, Rod and Staff English has so many benefits that we are thrilled to include it in our guides.

As far as memorizing the Godly character traits in Bigger goes, I would tend to steer away from making the character trait discussions into a memorization activity. The reason for this is that once you shift the purpose of the discussion to memorization, you will shift away from the heartfelt discussion that we desire from this particular activity. Honestly, if your child has a deer in the headlights look each day as the trait comes up that is alright. He will get exposure to the trait again the next day and the next day. The important focus of the Godly character trait is to get the child to begin to notice the trait in the lives of those he reads about so that eventually he can recognize how he can better exhibit this trait in his own life. Looking inward at one's self to promote steps toward an outward change is the goal. There is much character building that takes place all throughout our guides in so many ways that this is not a one-shot deal. Be assured that over time your child will have multiple exposures to Godly character traits.

Blessings,
Carrie

[tpschettle]

Thanks so much for all your help! I truly appreciate your helpful suggestions. I'm looking forward so much to doing this program that I have been making things more difficult than they have to be. We had no narration before, so I've swung beyond what the guide lays out, & trying to narrate everything.

It is very hard not to explain the reading (esp. History) or interrupt the narration too much, which discourages ds. I have a lot to learn & I'll refer to the tips often. Maybe I'm the one who needs memory work?

Thank you, Carrie, for the encouragement! Of course, personal application is the ultimate goal. I'm confident that I have the best tools in hand toward that end! Thank you so much!