Dictation Woes
-
- Posts: 317
- Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:21 pm
Dictation Woes
For a little background, we started HOD with a little bit of LHFHG and then went through Beyond and are now in the middle of Bigger. For spelling, we use HOD dictation, along with R&S Spelling. Last year we did the first set of dictation passages. My ds did fairly well with it, although he occasionally needed to repeat a passage, usually for small errors. By the end of the year, I was quite pleased with how he was doing. Fast forward to this year. He's struggling with the second set of dictation passages. Some passages are taking him several days to get through and he often makes more than one mistake. (He gets most of the passage, but will do things like spell "now" for "new" or "diner" for "dinner" or he might forget a comma.) We're starting our sixth week with the second set, so he should be starting #16, but he's working on #9. I can't backtrack (as I've often seen recommended on this board, when a child is struggling with dictation), as he's already completed level 1. One thing I've considered is that last year he did the dictation in manuscript, but this year he's using the cursive he learned last year; I've often wondered if thinking about the letter formations might be taking away from his focusing on the details of the passage. When I've suggested he go back to manuscript, he welled up with tears and seemed to feel discouraged. I'm wondering if I should 1) insist upon manuscript, 2) keep plugging with cursive and just have him repeat the passages when necessary, with the thought that it will eventually all come together, or 3) set aside the dictation for now and pick it up again at a later date.
Wife to one amazing husband and mother to two precious blessings from above:
ds22 & dd18
Re: Dictation Woes
I think I would insist on manuscript and would explain to him that he has the copywork that is for perfecting his handwriting, but that isn't what dictation is for. With the errors he is making I could easily see how those would be cursive related. Also make sure he is writing the bold words on a white board and also anywhere there is a comma he can write the word and then the comma on the white board. My ds will even say out loud before he starts "ok comma after this word, period after this one etc."
Mom to:
dd 22 college graduate and employed as an Intervention Specialist
ds 18 US2, Loved Preparing, CTC , RTR , Rev to Rev, MTMM ,WG, WH and US1
http://www.graceandfur.blogspot.com/
dd 22 college graduate and employed as an Intervention Specialist
ds 18 US2, Loved Preparing, CTC , RTR , Rev to Rev, MTMM ,WG, WH and US1
http://www.graceandfur.blogspot.com/
-
- Posts: 317
- Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:21 pm
Re: Dictation Woes
Thank you for your suggestions. I never thought of having him write the bold words on the white board. Funny thing is, he never misses those! Perhaps I'll have him do the same with words I think he might miss. I think I'll also follow your advice and insist on the manuscript. I could always do it for a two-week trial and see if there is improvement. If there is, I think it'll help him understand. Since he's already doing R&S English 4, R&S Spelling and Bigger notebooking in cursive, I think he'll still have plenty of practice in cursive, even if the dictation is done in manuscript.
Wife to one amazing husband and mother to two precious blessings from above:
ds22 & dd18
Re: Dictation Woes
Are you pointing out all the punctuation and bold words etc. Right before you do the passage. I find this helped my dd tremendously. She was repeating passages for one missed comma or a missed Capital Letter. Sometimes I let her try again later in the day too if its really important to her.
♪♫•*¨*•.¸❤¸.•*¨*•♪♫•*¨*•.¸❤¸.•*¨*•♪♫
Dyslexics of the world Untie!
Adoptive Mom to 2 girls
http://gardenforsara.blogspot.com/
♪♫•*¨*•.¸❤¸.•*¨*•♪♫•*¨*•.¸❤¸.•*¨*•♪♫
Dyslexics of the world Untie!
Adoptive Mom to 2 girls
http://gardenforsara.blogspot.com/
♪♫•*¨*•.¸❤¸.•*¨*•♪♫•*¨*•.¸❤¸.•*¨*•♪♫
-
- Posts: 317
- Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:21 pm
Re: Dictation Woes
Yes, we go over the passage together, first. I'll point out all of the punctuation and review any words I think might be a struggle. I don't think he's ever missed a bolded word; it's usually words that I didn't think he needed to review or ones he knows, such as when he spelled "hear" for "here," or "befor" for "before," that he misses. We also have the AAS tiles, and I'll often use those to help rivet a spelling (ex. h, ear & d tiles for heard) or to review a word he's missed. I have stressed to him the importance of thoroughly studying the passage, but I think sometimes he really thinks he knows it and has studied enough, when in reality he probably should take more care. I'm not sure. I don't want to push too hard, if he really is struggling and it's not a matter of attention.Tansy wrote:Are you pointing out all the punctuation and bold words etc. Right before you do the passage. I find this helped my dd tremendously. She was repeating passages for one missed comma or a missed Capital Letter. Sometimes I let her try again later in the day too if its really important to her.
Wife to one amazing husband and mother to two precious blessings from above:
ds22 & dd18
Re: Dictation Woes
Dc really do progress at different rates in dictation. Both of our sons have hit some bumpy periods in dictation, but I want to encourage you that they eventually improve and move on.
Just because a child is on week "x", that doesn't mean he/she should be on dictation passage"x". You may want to consider having ds do dictation every day and drop R & S Spelling. I did both R & S Spelling and dictation for a year with my oldest ds, and when I decided to drop R & S Spelling and only have him focus on dictation the following year, not only his dictation improved, but so did his overall spelling in his writing in general.
So, that would be an easy thing to do that would free up some time for singular focus on dictation.
I found that my dc did not seem to know how to study once dictation progressed to a level that was more difficult for them.
So, I look at the bumpy times as a chance to teach them how to study. First, I have them read the passage out loud to study it. We then look together where the punctuation marks are, where the capital letters are, which words they may find difficult to spell. With my oldest ds who had speech difficulties early on in life, it helped to get a markerboard to practice, and we used the method LynnH is describing. Once they are over the bumpy spell, they can study in any way they want to.
I remember someone asking about doing dictation in cursive - maybe it was you - I am sorry, but I cannot recall.
I had thought it would probably be all right, but the more I have thought about that since then, I really do think that it probably could interfere with the success of dictation. So, I guess I'd suggest doing dictation daily, dropping R & S Spelling, switching to manuscript, teaching him how to study, and letting go of the expectation he'll complete a certain number of passages within a week for right now. I'd try to continue to be very encouraging, as tears are such a sad thing to see in our dc, and if he misses a passage, just quickly go over what was incorrect and set it aside for the next day without further time spent on it until then. I hope something here can help!
In Christ,
Julie


I found that my dc did not seem to know how to study once dictation progressed to a level that was more difficult for them.


I remember someone asking about doing dictation in cursive - maybe it was you - I am sorry, but I cannot recall.


In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie
Re: Dictation Woes
daybreaking,
This is a wonderful question, and I'm so glad that you asked about it!
The ladies have done a terrific job of talking through your questions, so I'll just pop in to agree with their wise advice.
Dictation passages are meant to be captured in a child's mind, written on the child's mental blackboard, and reproduced exactly as pictured on the page.
This means that if the passage is in manuscript it is meant to be reproduced in manuscript.
At no point in time through HOD will the child be doing the dictation passages in cursive because the passages are not provided in cursive. You are so right that for a child beginning cursive, or even for a child who is fluid in cursive, changing from manuscript to cursive is one additional step that changes the mental picture that was captured. It can definitely lead to errors in the child's product.
Some of the errors you mentioned are just typical for a child facing a higher level of dictation passages, so switching to manuscript will not fix all the errors. However, the frustration should lessen overall with one less mental step to focus upon during dictation.
There is already daily cursive copywork practice scheduled throughhout the guide in various areas, so your little honey will not be neglecting his cursive either.
Blessings,
Carrie
This is a wonderful question, and I'm so glad that you asked about it!



At no point in time through HOD will the child be doing the dictation passages in cursive because the passages are not provided in cursive. You are so right that for a child beginning cursive, or even for a child who is fluid in cursive, changing from manuscript to cursive is one additional step that changes the mental picture that was captured. It can definitely lead to errors in the child's product.

Some of the errors you mentioned are just typical for a child facing a higher level of dictation passages, so switching to manuscript will not fix all the errors. However, the frustration should lessen overall with one less mental step to focus upon during dictation.


Blessings,
Carrie
-
- Posts: 317
- Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:21 pm
Re: Dictation Woes
Thank you, Carrie! I knew my ds was supposed to "capture" the picture of the passage in his mind, but I never considered that meant always doing it in manuscript. That makes so much sense!! That's why I love this board and the wisdom so many are willing to share. 
P.S. Julie, thank you also for your input. It was very helpful, as well!! I thought I had responded to your post earlier, but I don't see my post, so I must not have!

P.S. Julie, thank you also for your input. It was very helpful, as well!! I thought I had responded to your post earlier, but I don't see my post, so I must not have!

Wife to one amazing husband and mother to two precious blessings from above:
ds22 & dd18