DS just not "into" it =(

[mater est laetus]

Carrie, that is exactly what I needed to hear/read the weekend before starting school with my oldest! I'm going to print it out.

[LynnH]

I thought I would step in here and address the concern about him not being able to remember a thing and are you just wasting your time. My ds is very into school. He loves every book we have read and he loves HOD, but I will tell you that they first time we read about something or cover it he couldn't tell you anything about it either. I had addressed this with Carrie when we were doing Preparing and she told me to look at it as I was giving him hooks that when he revisits the same subject later he will have previous exposure to hang that information on. This has proved very true. When we did CTC this year the things he could recall the best were things we had touched on last year, the same things he couldn't tell me anything about then. However, when we revisited it he had much more understanding than he did of the brand new things. My dd was the kind of kid that could retell you everything she had read and tell you all about the stuff she had learned that day. My ds just isn't that way, but it doesn't mean he isn't storing the knowledge somewhere to be used at a later date when he gets more pictures of the puzzle so to speak. I hope that makes sense. The way HOD is designed he will have many opportunities in future years to build his knowledge of a subject.

[netpea]

Thank you Carrie, those are wonderful words of wisdom. Perhaps you could repost it in one of the sticky notes at the top of the board too?

[alydar]

Thank you LynnH! That is encouraging to read. I guess I'll have to just give it some time to see if that indeed proves true for him.

[my3sons]

I think it is important to remember the age of ds - 6 yo is pretty young. Honestly, I don't recall very much about any of my elementary years in ps, save for a few things I was passionate about, and those were more at the age of middle school. I don't think this is so uncommon. Do you recall much about those years? We were little. They are little. I struggle to remember this - to go back to teaching those first skills again, as it seems dc should just "have them", but they don't.

Charlotte Mason talks about giving dc the "hooks" to hang future information on. I've begun to think of my dc's minds like bulletin boards. At first, they are a blank bulletin board without much in the way of specific facts "sticking", and I don't mean that in a negative way, I just mean, they are so busy learning how to go about "learning" in general that it takes up a lot of their thoughts and energy. Things like, "I must sit still in school... I must hold my pencil just so... I must put my books here... I must color like this... I must put away my school things like this..." Not to mention, "I must make my bed like this... put dishes away like that... take out the trash in the mornings..." and other hygiene and house procedures we expect them to do in the day to day.

Each year, as they learn these more day to day things and have them down pat where they no longer need to think about them but rather just do them from memory, they are able to hang a few more "school learning" pegs on their bulletin boards, but they begin with pretty general things. For example, in LHTH, my dc were able to hang some "hooks" on their bulletin boards in regard to Biblical history. This was more familiar, as we've read Bible stories to them from early on, they attend church, etc., so it's easier to retain this information. Then in LHFHG, they added more pegs to their Biblical history, and were able to "hook" on world events to Biblical happenings. As we moved through history, the part after the Biblical history was brand new to them. What they took from that was that history is more than Biblical history and current history. They began to understand the flow of history, the span of it, as well as a few famous names and events. In Beyond Little Hearts, they continued adding to their bulletin boards, new pegs, but not so many, as much of it was new. It was in Bigger Hearts that their bulletin boards began to become fuller, as this took some of what was learned in Beyond in the way of American history and built upon that.

Now my oldest ds in RTR has a VERY FULL bulletin board, much fuller than mine when it comes to history and science I must say. It is because he has been adding, adding, adding to what he's learned each year. Each time a name or an event comes up again, he can recall with greater clarity what to attach with that name or event. My middle ds in Bigger Hearts will share a name or event at the kitchen table, usually just something quite vague or general, or even in the form of a question like, "Hey, wasn't that the guy who ___?" My oldest ds now can answer with detail. But he is almost 12 yo!

Research in advertisement says that a person needs to hear something 7 times to really recall it and have it "stick". I think this is fairly accurate. I would say that for little ones, it is important to keep in perspective that most of what they are learning is all new to them. Imagine learning an all-new body of knowledge. The first time you hear it, you really won't remember much. Each time a concept is revisited in subsequent years in guides to come, more is remembered. So rather than expecting dc to take it all in the first time, letting them take from it what they can, and knowing it’s coming around again… and again… and again, allows us to “get it done and move on” and in so doing, show them school is not a daily test of what you learned, but rather a lifelong endeavor that is a journey to be enjoyed.

Their bulletin board doesn’t have a one-time shot at getting filled. These young years dc are learning many, many skills for the first time. Listening attentively and learning to comprehend and retain information are all BIG skills to tackle! Dc need years and years of practice within these skills. I wouldn't be discouraged. These skills will come, but they can't be forced. They take real time. They take much encouragement, and oh my, much patience on our part as parents! The best thing we can do is have an attitude of loving learning ourselves, loving teaching ourselves, loving our homeschooling days ourselves, and though many boys will still answer that their favorite time of the day is "recess" (the answer I received at least 75% of the time from ps students that were boys when I asked what their favorite subject was), they will begin to take more and more of an interest in what they are learning as their "bulletin boards" become filled with pegs and hooks on which to hang more learning upon... if we can just give them time.

In Christ,
Julie

[Candice]

Whitney,

I am certainly no expert and am far from having a spotless record of giving materials enough time to "take effect" and draw the child in but, I was thinking it might prove helpful to give it some more time. I noticed that you were at Unit 3 in the guide, maybe after a few more weeks/units you will notice some positive changes. Just a thought, I know you are feeling frustrated.
Also, as far as the narration, I just had another thought. Maybe you could model the narration for him for a while until he feels more comfortable/capable doing it himself? I know my daughter would give me such brief narrations, I hardly felt like we were on the right track and it made me frustrated and had me questioning if I was making the right schooling choices. She would sum it up like your son---just the bare minimum of info regarding a story.
I was thinking maybe you could model for him what you "took away" from the story and just let him hear you for while. I think sometimes kids are actually listening and they do know what happened in a story, they just sometimes feel out of their element actually telling someone else out loud. That was how my daughter was anyway.
It's kind of like my daughter with her fluency and expression with reading...she can really sound like a robot at times and reading just becomes more of a chore, and not so enjoyable. My idea to help her was to read the story to her FIRST, making myself use plenty of expression and showing enjoyment while reading. Then, for her, she feels much more comfortable reading the same story because I have shown her a little bit how it might sound. It isn't so huge for her anymore.
Anyway, I hope that your son will come around and begin to embrace the material.

Candice

[birchbark]

Another thing to consider is how much screen time your son is getting. The barrage of multimedia from television, videos, and computer can really affect children's attention spans. The printed page has a hard time competing! You could try weaning off completely for a few months and see if it makes a difference.

[sharonb]

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. Even though I'm not the op, I appreciate all the advice. As for my 6yo, I hope I didn't make him sound terrible or anything. Not to hijack the thread, but I feel I should share an update---I think I have figured out the problem--- he was really bothered by the phonics (see my phonics frustration thread). Today I started our school day by working through a page of Phonics Pathways with my 6yo, and asked him if he'd like to do ETC workbooks instead of Rod & Staff phonics. He said "yes", and was a different boy all day. He did his school work without complaining and actually listened when I read. So, this particular child needs to know that he's not going to have to spend all day on phonics! He wasn't thrilled about doing the spelling, but I let him use the whiteboard today, and he was happy to see that it does not take long at all. (AND he got all of the words right today; the other day he missed two of them.) Same thing with poetry copywork- I'm only requiring him to copy 2-3 words each day, just enough to practice his handwriting. Math is easy and quick still, and he's getting more involved with the Beyond left-side subjects.

I guess I shouldn't have been so hasty in getting frustrated about ds. We just needed to work through a few things, and he needed to get familiar with our new format, and he's doing SO much better with his attitude.

As for my 7yo ds, he is absolutely THRIVING on having a checklist. He LOVES checking things off as he completes them (like his Mommy!). So, I agree with Carrie- boys just want to get finished!

Later on when the dc are asleep I'm going to come back and re-read the responses on this thread because I know there's a lot of useful advice; I've had to skim them because I'm getting interrupted constantly!

[alydar]

Julie - your post is most reassuring. After reading and re-reading all the posts again, I'm starting to loose my frustration and gain some insight. Praise the Lord! I'm realizing that we are just getting started with this new program, that DS is still so very young and inexperienced, and that I am still trying to find my way as a homeschooling mom and have my expectations all out of sorts. My poor, poor DS! He is my guinea pig for everything! I hope he'll forgive me one day.

I think what I may try doing for our Storytime is just initiate a conversation about what was read that day instead of asking him to retell or answer questions. Maybe that might spark his own thoughts and get his wheels turning. And then move on from there. And for the history and poetry, I'll just trust the process and understand that we've hung another "hook" or two.

I will also consider their screen time - thanks for that thought Candice! They aren't in front of it all day by any means and it's highly monitored when they are but they might be there too much anyway. I'll cut back on that and see what happens.

Ladies, I came here almost in tears from the frustration I was feeling and now I'm in tears from the happiness I've found in your support and encouragement and prayers. Thank you all again from the bottom of my heart!!!

[blessed2five]

Carrie,

I have not even officially started using HOD yet, but I feel as though I have already learned so much from you and everyone else on this board. You are all so encouraging and uplifting and always pointing us to how the Lord would want us to think and act. So many other "boards" out there have such discouraging and demeaning tones to them which I know are indirectly affecting the way I teach and think. This board is a breath of fresh air and I purpose in my heart to guard it with all diligence as I participate in any other board out there.

I so appreciate your comments and words of wisdom in this thread,and I will be printing these and keeping them very close to me as I start my school year. I only wish I could have all of you over for tea!

God Bless,

[Starla]

What a wealth of wisdom gained here! I'm so new to homeschooling, and haven't even started yet on HOD, but am realizing more and more how much I need to depend on God and godly counsel from those who have been there. I've struggled this last year with our two boys and am excited about trying some new simple things that were mentioned here. Keeping them on track in their subjects, having them check things off as they get it done, not letting negative attitudes fester and build, encouraging them, etc. Only by God's grace....
Leaning on Him....
Starla

[Kristen]

I genuinely credit HOD for bringing Christ into the center of our lives and then having Him open their hearts to accept Him. There have been remarkable changes in our lives since having this program in our home. That has been the most beautiful part of our homeschooling journey thus far.

Whitney,
I don't have any great advice but I wanted to say how your quote above really touched my heart. The fact that homeschooling and HOD have brought Christ into the center of your lives is awesome! That is our main goal with our children. If God is the center of their lives but they can't remember some history facts, well, is that so bad? I'm not trying to downplay your challenges, but encourage you to look at it from an eternal perspective. I have three boys and a girl so I know how it is with their attention spans. I think your son with mature each year and some years you'll see a big jump in skills. Maybe you can take a quick break in between readings so he can get up and wiggle a little. I've often sent my DS9 outside to run a lap around the house to get the wiggles out. He loves it!
I've also been encouraged by Carrie's thoughts on speaking things into our children's lives and being consistent with schoolwork. I've been guilty of "skipping" work as well as speaking negatively. I think if we just keep plugging away and stay obedient to God's call we will see a change in their attitudes. I know my oldest has tried me (and oftentimes won) in this area. I end up skipping or getting impatient because of his whining. I've realized lately also that if I just stick with it and he knows I'm going to stick with it things will get better.
So hang in there and keep relying on God to guide you. Things will stick in his memory even if it doesn't seem like it. He will mature and this season will pass.
Galatians 6:9 comes to mind: "So don't get tired of doing what is good. Don't get discouraged and give up for we will reap a harvest of blessing at the appropriate time."
Kristen

[Mercy]

Whitney,
I fully understand your overwhelming feeling of gratitude. I have also cried tears of joy for the help of all these wonderful, godly women on this board. Truly God is moving powerfully and touching lives and homes for heaven here!! What an awesome thing to be a part of!!!
So glad to hear you have a renewed perspective about your situation.
Mercy

[HollyS]

We are just over 1/2 way through Beyond this year and my DC are (just turned)9 and 6. My DS is on the younger end of the age for Beyond. For the first 1/2 of Beyond, he did great with the 3Rs and Bible memory, but struggled with the read-alouds and history readings. The last few weeks I've been having him sit in my lap...not across the table or even next to me, but right in my lap. It's made a huge difference in how much he is engaged in the readings. There is very little to distract him when the pictures are right in his face.

[lmercon]

I would really encourage you to have faith in the process. I don't think Carrie intends for you to convey to your child that we just need to get it done. Your presentation should be one of enthusiasm and interest. Use an upbeat voice as you progress through each portion of the program. Don't worry too much now about recall. It never ceases to amaze me how many obscure things my ds recalls from past years. Wow, he really was paying attention! Often, later learning moments trigger memories of things learned in the past. I've read that many of the early programs are designed to form "pegs" on which to hang later learning. It may not seem like he is really learning all the facts about the explorers, but in the following years when he is reintroduced to an explorer, I am willing to wager a bet that his eyes light up and he says, "Hey, I remember him!" Even if it is simply a recall of the name, it will motivate him to pay better attention to the new learning, now that he is at an age to really learn on a deeper level and has a greater ability to store learning in his long term memory. I have seen this happen with my ds many times. Do not feel as though you are wasting your time. You are laying a ground work that will be built upon for many years. Stick with it. It is not in vain.
hth,
Laura