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The ladies are having such great dialogue with you, so I'll just pop-in to share my thoughts too! I would lean toward having your oldest son begin LHFHG or Beyond for next year. Depending on what you have done so far in history and science, if he is reading and writing well it is possible he could head into Beyond when you start school in August, if he fits better there on the placement chart. So it is wise to ponder what he has had already in the past, which I wasn't sure of, and where his actual skills are now. If needed, if you did go with LHFHG, whenever your son has completed phonics, he could just bump ahead to the Appendix of the Beyond guide for only the Emerging Reader Set, the spelling lists, and the gentle grammar lessons, and possibly the math (depending on what you decide to do there). So, you have options.

From what you've shared so far about your kiddos' personalities and learning strengths, I would definitely lean toward keeping your daughter in a different program from your oldest son. This is because he seems ready-to-go, and placing them together would keep her forever comparing herself to him and possibly seeing herself falling short (when in reality she is just younger). It may also keep her in his shadow for years to come.

I would not hold him back to combine with her, as he may pick up on that as well. Often older kiddos are just more ready to begin and your time is likely more available right now too, than it may be as you have more kiddos in school.

I would lean toward doing LHTH with your daughter (along with any other kiddos you have in the 2 years on up range) and adding anything extra she needs from the right side of LHFHG for her (most likely the phonics and handwriting workbook too). Depending on which phonics program you have, you could consider adding The Reading Lesson for phonics, as it is open-and-go and short and sweet, which would make for a better chance of it getting done each day.

I think that by making your son have his own guide (taking only 90-120 min.) a day and having your daughter do LHTH, which will help you focus on her, you will find the balance you're seeking in your day. It is possible that she could combine with the child beneath her, depending on his age.

Feel free to pop back and share your thoughts. We'll love to talk through this with you until you find your fit.

Blessings,
Carrie

Thank-you, Carrie. I'm chewing over these things and doing lots of forum reading.

I'll be posting more questions as they come up. I deeply appreciate the willingness to help me through this.

I don't really know how viable an option this is for you, in fact I've just begun contemplating it for my younger two and haven't thought things all the way through yet, but I'll shoot it out here and maybe it will spark another idea for you...

What if you started your oldest in LHFHG at full pace and then, if you're able to get your hands on LHTH again, began that with your DD at a leisurely pace. Next year, begin LHTH with your next in line, and begin working to catch him up-maybe your DD could take summers of, while you worked with brother, or she could do a 4 day week while the younger brother did 5, working to eventually have them paired up together, even though they may not be starting off at the same time. Not sure how this would actually work out in practice, just a thought.

I will be doing 3 guides in the fall! I'll be doing Preparing, Beyond, and a modified LHFHG.

One thing that keeps coming to my mind is that your daughter is only 4. Even if she places in LHFHG ... she is still only 4. You mentioned that you have neglected her ... but please know that you haven't!!! I think everyone always works a ton more with the oldest child because of obvious circumstances. I had my 1st child reading at 3 yo ... and in full blown Kindergarten at 4 years old. Big mistake! He went full force ahead seemingly ready for everything I put in front of him. He was not ready for it, though. He didn't seem to struggle with the material ... but once we got to about the 2nd grade level it all backfired on me. I totally regret pushing him like that! Eventually, even most children who seem to be advanced, will level out. My son just got to a point where he would cry every day when I said it was time for school. At that point, I just had to completely regroup, and start over in many ways.
So, with my 2nd son, I decided to experiment by not teaching him anything at all. I didn't even teach him a single letter until I started him in K. Wouldn't you know it that by the time we started K, he could already read!!! (the trickle down effect is pretty amazing!)
My point is at this young age ... it's time for play! Nature walks are always a good thing ... lots of outside play ... lots of time for creative outlets ... but (IMO) it's not time yet for formal school. The other thing that you may or may not have taken into consideration is that if you start her in LHFHG now ... there may come a point in time when she is in a guide that she's not ready for and you will end up having to modify it so much that the ease of using an HOD guide is lost.

My 3rd son will be 5 this fall, and I have been agonizing for the whole past school year about whether or not I should even start him yet ... at 5.

I was nervous about doing 2 guides ... and this past year I have done Bigger and Little Hearts and it went well and with great ease. Putting each child in a different guide is not as difficult as it may seem. I have found that the fear of the unknown causes the greatest amount of worry, but once executed one realizes that it is just not that big of a deal. I will eventually have all 4 of my children in a different guide.

In the end, you have to do what is best for your family in your particular set of circumstances. I know you will make the right decision!

Hey there! I have nothing new to add, especially since Carrie and Julie both weighed in, but wanted to say "hi" anyway! Welcome to HOD and to the boards! Looking forward to dialoguing with you!

Dropping in to say I have spent the last month chewing on these things - I didn't just disappear!

I'm inclined to start LHFHG with my oldest this fall because I already have some of the books for it. If anyone reads this, prayer for the financial provision for the rest would be appreciated. "Many are the plans in a man's heart," but what I actually can do is in the Lord's hands. Lord willing, I'll be joining you all this coming year.

mater est laetus wrote:Julie, I was talking to DH and he likes your idea of pairing DD with her little brother and the opportunities that will afford her. He isn't that enthusiastic about having to hold her off so long, however.

I was going over the placement chart tonight after spending some time alone with DD (rare) and realizing how much I've neglected her. My oldest is one to make himself opportunities and will strike out on his own - he's difficult to stay ahead of. DD, on the other hand, wants to be lead. She will let you know what she wants and ask for the opportunity but if it's not granted, she'll hang back .. and I realized that's what she's been doing. Months ago she picked up a phonics book, brought it to me and asked to "do school" and started blending right off the bat. With my oldest I've been all about working with him but with DD I told myself I'm more "relaxed" now when in reality, I've been lazy. I didn't start consistent lessons with her. She would ask, I'd do it now and then but mostly put her off and she'd just run along. Oh, now I want to cry. I'm thinking about how DS2 is also a go getter and a mommy's boy. DS2 loves physical affection and will take it whether you are ready to give it or not but again, DD hangs back. DS2 had jumped up in my chair demanding cuddles one day and I happened to look over at DD in another chair and saw her with her head on the armrest meekly watching. I asked, "Do you need cuddles too?" and she nodded with a shy pout. I hate to think how much I don't notice. Things need to change...

I missed reading this until just now! I just wanted to thank you for sharing your heart here, and encourage you that these moments of reflections we have as mamas come to all of us. In fact, I just had a similar reflection with my 4 yo, though it was not in regard to homeschooling, but rather in regard to other daily routines. I'm not sure what happened, but my dh and I have realized we have expected much less from our little guy than we did from our older sons at his age. We've let a lot go, let's just say. At his age, my oldest (and middle ds) were both confident enough to play in their own room for an independent playtime of around 45 minutes. My little guy - Emmett - cannot do this for 1 minute. In fact, he doesn't even want to go alone upstairs to get himself a pair of socks - he wants my oldest ds to go with him, or me. Emmett is rooming with big brother (almost 12 yo), and big brother has had to do more "parenting" than "brothering" because of it. Emmett wakes up at night sometimes, and asks Wyatt to tuck him in. Emmett wakes up when Wyatt is reading, and wants Wyatt to read to him. In short, Wyatt has become the full-time in-room entertainment for my little Emmett. While Wyatt adores Emmett, I know this adoration is starting to fade as my little Emmett demands more and more attention from him. I fully realized this the other day, when all SEVEN boys were in the pool in the backyard (Walmart- above ground cheapie - just so you can picture how CLOSE they all were to one another in the pool), and my little Emmett shouted out to me (I was sitting in a lawn chair 10 feet away), "Mom, NO ONE is playing with me!" I thought, 'Oh my! He's in the pool with 6 other boys and doesn't feel played-with enough - yikes!' So, "change is a-comin'"! We have decided to move our older 2 sons in together, and have our 4 yo in his own room. This is NOT going to be easy on the little guy, nor on us as parents. But, it will help our 4 yo learn some needed independence, and give our oldest son some needed space.

I share all this just so you know - you are not alone in taking some time to reflect and finding some things need to change! I do NOT think you are lazy - not one bit. I think you - like the rest of us - began homeschooling your oldest first, were used to having him in mind when it came to homeschooling, and then when dd came along, you weren't quite sure how to handle that. Many times, I don't even realize we've entered a different stage in life with our sons until I have a moment of reflection like this, and then suddenly it is very apparent to me, we've moved into a different stage with one, two, or all three of our sons, and some real change (and prayer) is needed. Often times, it's the realization that one child somehow is getting undo attention, and we need to get back to a better balance with each of our dc. In our case, it was the little guy getting too much. In your case, it sounds like you felt it was the oldest. It happens - but then the Lord helps us see it, and we rebalance our lives accordingly.

So, I read through your thoughts here...

mater est laetus wrote:I've penciled out some of the possibilities so I can see what the next few years could potentially look like. DH pointed out to me tonight that DD actually has good fine motor control - I'm going to spend purposeful time with her and actually see where she's at. Aside from that area, which I don't have a clear grasp of being the poor mother I am, and her age, she places into LHFHG. Aside from age and reading (which is an area I've held my oldest back on in that I haven't moved him into readers but kept him to word lists to eliminate his tendency to guess by context), DS places into Beyond but LHFHG sounds preferable even if he did surpass phonics by fall (would you agree?).

Here's a thought I had, please share criticism: What about taking them both through LHFHG at a pace that would take a year and a half (perhaps even alternating days with them some of the time for individual time) and have DS start Beyond by himself in the Spring while DD helps DS2 (then 4) go through either LHTH or something else for a year before starting LHFHG the next Spring with DD 6.5 and 1st grade options and DS 5 with K options? DD would be doing phonics and math at her own pace so that's not an issue in going back to LHTH or whatever we do. I'm leaning in this direction at the moment but would appreciate feedback to consider.

I am thinking that your ds sounds ready to fly in LHFHG, and your dd sounds ready for the fine motor skills part of it. Could you have your ds do all of LHFHG, and have your dd do the K fine motor skills parts of it (the Do It Carefully/Finding the Answers and the Handwriting)? She could also do the Earlybird Math and start phonics if you wanted her to. Then, could you do LHTH with your dd and your little ds together for the Biblical history and the great follow-ups that are fun and more fitting the 2 of them? To save funds, you could get by with either using your own Bible or just one of the LHFHG story Bibles. You could get one devotional if funds allow next. Then, eventually you could get the music if able. But you could truly just start LHTH with the guide and your own Bible, and get quite a bit out of it! I think this would be easy to do and fun, as well as give a good balance for all of your dc. You would be doing LHTH with the 2 littles, knowing that it was more for dd than for 2 yo, and you would be fitting her fine motors skills needs well, as your dh mentioned. Then, you could have the 2 of them go through LHTH with the older resources one more time, having dd do the older LHFHG options, and then the next year do LHFHG with the 2 of them, but have your oldest dd do the LA/math options from Beyond (you'd already own it and them anyway).

I'm not sure if anything here will help, but those are just a few thoughts!
In Christ,
Julie

Julie, it's so great to hear from you! I appreciate you sharing from your own experience. It has encouraged me greatly.

I'm working on getting what I need for LHFHG. This is posing enough of a challenge that LHTH has fallen from my radar. Homeschool funds will begin to accrue again after the new year so I begin planning that then. Other than that, this is the plan I'm going with - starting DS in LHFHG this year and the next two in LHTH when I can eventually get it and taking them through a couple of times until younger DS is 5 and then starting them in LHFHG. I figure my oldest will be in Preparing by then and that makes multiple guides sound not so daunting at all and it's awesome that I can work with DD at her own level for the skill subjects because I'll have the guide ahead already.

Thank-you for helping me work through this. I will be referring back to these ideas as funds become available. Really, it's not usually like this - I have just had to learn a lot this year about decision making and spending and I'm having to deal with the consequences.

I'm so glad to have helped somehow! I totally understand working through the funds issue. My dh and I have had many years of figuring that out as well. I'll share a few things that helped us out in case any of them could help you out. We've raised extra funds by selling clothing or toys at Once Upon a Child, selling furniture at consignment stores, selling clothing at consignment stores, having a rummage sale, caring for people's pets when they are out of town, watching another family's dc for an afternoon a week, tutoring a child or some children in our own home once a week, or going without something for a week (i.e. cheaper meals, no cable tv, etc.). We also have realized that as our dc grow older the expense for homeschooling grows along with them, so we have now gone to budgeting to put aside some money each month for each child's homeschooling expenses, so by the time the expenses come, we have the money saved. We do this for Christmas and for 1 vacation our family takes with my parents and sister's family each year too. This has taken us 8 years to figure out! But, I think we've finally got it down better. I hope something here can help, but know you are not alone in budgeting for homeschooling resources. In the meantime, I think you will thoroughly enjoy LHFHG! And LHTH will be waiting in the wings as funds allow. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

Those are great ideas. We simplified our lives of extras a while back and began laying aside a certain amount each week for homeschooling. My problem is I spent it in advance. And worse ... on things we didn't even need this year. As I'm looking at the HOD catalog I realize the price goes up as the years go on but I am relieved to know that the majority of it will be reused and since it's all planned out it means I'm not researching different things and spending money on trial and error as I try to put together my own thing for each child. That's not only going to save me money, it's going to save me inordinate amounts of time and stress.

Meanwhile, I've been scouring my house for something to sell and realized I have more cloth diapers than anyone needs so I've listed some of them on craigslist and am hoping for the best! Y'all will be the first to know when I finally get to order that guide!