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Since it seems you have her placed correctly.... I see what you are saying, but maybe she thinks like singapore and the way you are wording things when teaching her borrowing is throwing her off?

I'm assuming with your example of 74-36=38 you lined the problem up vertically, had her cross out the 4 and write a tiny little 14 above it and cross out the 7 and write a 6? ok.... I tend to think like singapore seems to (granted I've only gone through 1B, but nothing has been odd to me) here is how I see that problem.... 74 is 60 and 14 because 14 is the next highest with a 4 that you can take 6 away from (you can't take it away from 4, but you can take it away from 14) and 36 is 30 and 6... so I have this in my mind

(60 and 14) - (30 and 6)

So then I regroup it...

(60-30) and (14-6)

then I have 60 - 30 is 30, and 14 -6 is 8, so the answer is 38...

It is MUCH faster in my head than looking at this written down. I just SEE it, and I think from what all I've read on Singapore math that this is what their idea is... I'm doing the same process, but I don't have the weird crossing out of numbers and all that just messes me up.

MomtoJGJE wrote:Since it seems you have her placed correctly.... I see what you are saying, but maybe she thinks like singapore and the way you are wording things when teaching her borrowing is throwing her off?

I'm assuming with your example of 74-36=38 you lined the problem up vertically, had her cross out the 4 and write a tiny little 14 above it and cross out the 7 and write a 6? ok.... I tend to think like singapore seems to (granted I've only gone through 1B, but nothing has been odd to me) here is how I see that problem.... 74 is 60 and 14 because 14 is the next highest with a 4 that you can take 6 away from (you can't take it away from 4, but you can take it away from 14) and 36 is 30 and 6... so I have this in my mind

(60 and 14) - (30 and 6)

So then I regroup it...

(60-30) and (14-6)

then I have 60 - 30 is 30, and 14 -6 is 8, so the answer is 38...

It is MUCH faster in my head than looking at this written down. I just SEE it, and I think from what all I've read on Singapore math that this is what their idea is... I'm doing the same process, but I don't have the weird crossing out of numbers and all that just messes me up.

Am I correct...is this the "new math" way of thinking/teaching? While it may be easier for some folks, it would take me longer in my head to do that than to just do it the way I know to do it. ??/ And gosh, trying to teach it that way would baffle my kids...especially my 11 year old who (like me), learned it the other way.

my3sons wrote:I don't want to harp on this either, but I just wanted to make mention that it is extremely important not to help in the least bit with the placement test - even reading it for them is not something that should be done as this inflates the child's score. Doing the hands-on plans in the Bigger Heart's guide was crucial for my ds understanding the concepts, though this could just be my experience. I do not think he would have understood the concepts as well without them. The guide suggests doing multiple problems for the hands-on lessons, and I found it very important to do that. I also let my ds use counters during the larger addition/subtraction problems. Dc often learn their facts later with Singapore, but the upside is they generally know them better and also understand the "why" behind the "how" better within story problems. I would slow it down for your dd, going to half-speed for awhile. I would do the hands-on lessons multiple times over 2 days, and spread the written assignment out over 2 days. I'd also provide counters for her and let her use them when she wants. She will eventually give them up when ready. When it seems like she's doing better, and is ready for a quicker pacing, she can go back to full-speed. Singapore is considered a year advanced, and I think 2A is a turning point, where math gets tougher. I've slowed my ds to half-speed in 2A, done the hands-on activities 2 days in a row, given him counters, spread out the workbook over 2 days while writing a handful of review problems on a marker board for him, and now that we've done that for a few weeks, he's up to par again, going full-speed. I think helping dc over their rough spots by going half-speed does wonders. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

Julie, This is great advice! My younger ds ios doing 1A and is a 2nd grader who has completed CLE Math 1 last year. Singapore is definitely advanced and I am glad to read this now so I will be prepared for next year.

To the OP...my suggestion to get the TMs was not to suggest you use them INSTEAD of the HOD guide, but that maybe you can use the TMs on your own to help you teach it in ADDITION to the activities in the guide. Just wanted to make that clear.

I have no idea... from what I know about "new math" there is a chart involved. Mine is just from me completely not understanding why I was marking numbers out... but I do know in 1A and 1B Singapore teaches regrouping (ie. taking numbers apart... like 74 is 70 and 4 or 60 and 14 or whatever)

MomtoJGJE wrote:I have no idea... from what I know about "new math" there is a chart involved. Mine is just from me completely not understanding why I was marking numbers out... but I do know in 1A and 1B Singapore teaches regrouping (ie. taking numbers apart... like 74 is 70 and 4 or 60 and 14 or whatever)

Oh boy...sounds like I am going to have a learning curve myself with 1A then!

Don't worry Rebecca! It's all actually very logical and doesn't seem weird when it's all laid out step by step. For those of us that were just taught the process of crossing out a number, adding a one, etc., it might seem strange at first, but really if you stop to think about it the other way, it makes sense. I was complaining to my dh, an engineer who uses higher math everyday, how simple the early lessons in 3A were. They were having the dc do things like take a four digit number added to another 4 digit number and breaking it apart then just adding the ones, then the tens, then the hundreds, then the thousands. It seemed so silly to take it apart and do things one at a time at this level. My dh told me he thought it was great to get them thinking of grouping the numbers together this way. He proceeded to explain to me why this is a good thinking skill to have. It really does make sense and helps in the long run to help with the mental math. Some dc and adults have an easier time using the process and will automatically gravitate towards that after learning all methods, but still taking the time to learn how to think about it differently is a great skill. I know I took some extra time with my dd earlier this year to think through problems without writing them down to help strengthen her mental math skills. On the other hand, I had to review the process for my ds because he does everything in his head and when it comes to writing it down, he has problems showing his work. We're all different in the way we see these things, but I think Singapore does a good job of presenting the concept, helping develop good mental thinking with the concept, and then showing the process of writing it out.

I say if you need it just buy the HIGs. They are pretty helpful and have extra games and ideas to go along with the lessons. My ds is doing 2a/2b along with beyond. I have the work/text books, and the HIGs I also use ideas from the Bigger guide.

8smiths wrote:Singapore is generally "ahead" of other maths and it is not uncommon at all for students to be in the "number" that is below their grade (a second grader in 1A or 1B would be very normal).

I see this, because I have a 3rd grader in 2A, but what do you recommend for a 1st grader? He's just not getting it-we're at the review after exercise 33, and I still find myself having to re-explain addition/subtraction at every single problem. I don't want to go forward to problems greater than 10, when he can't grasp those under 10.

HappyMama wrote:We are struggling a bit too. I pm'd you......

Sorry to push in if you weren't talking to me , but in case you were...I didn't receive anything, could you try again? I'd love your take on things! If not, just ignore me

Thanks, Becky

Becky,

Which book is your 1st grader in? Are you doing the activities? We didn't start Singapore until 1A so I didn't do the Kindergarten Earlybird books scheduled in LHFHG, but perhaps if you are in 1A and he isn't grasping it, you could drop back to Earlybird 2B. Or perhaps start over at the beginning of 1A again, making sure that as you do each activity that he is getting the concept before moving on. Another option might be to look back over the activities that you've done that cover the concepts that he isn't getting and revisit them. Those are just a couple of ideas that might help.

Yesterday was DH's birthday so I didn't get back on here. Thanks everyone for your help. Hopefully math will be going smoother here on out. She is very good with math which is a good thing!! Hopefully if I can get it down pat with her then I will be a better teacher with the rest of the kiddos coming on!

I also love math literature so one book that we loved while studying place value was Mr. Base Ten Invents Mathematics. It's a fun book to read that teaches place value. Perhaps your library might have it

I checked our library database and they don't have it but I will look for other math books when we go! Good idea!

I don't want to harp on this either, but I just wanted to make mention that it is extremely important not to help in the least bit with the placement test - even reading it for them is not something that should be done as this inflates the child's score.

She did it on her own, the only problem she needed help on was how to write a multiplication problem. She figured out the answer for 4 goups of 5 but didn't know how to write it; she hasn't covered any multiplication.

Doing the hands-on plans in the Bigger Heart's guide was crucial for my ds understanding the concepts, though this could just be my experience. I do not think he would have understood the concepts as well without them. The guide suggests doing multiple problems for the hands-on lessons, and I found it very important to do that.

That is the main reason we switched to Singapore this year. DH was very impressed with MUS when we were first looking into homeschooling. Said if he had been taught math like that he would understand it! So, for the first year of homeschooling, we did MUS. But, as we were going through LHFHG, I realized my girls were missing all of the great activities written for Singapore so we decided to switch to Singapore for the activities. The girls have loved doing the activities and we will not be stopping them. I felt that MUS explained "new math" so well and I am not doing such a great job at it! I want to make sure we get it down now and not cause problems later.

I also let my ds use counters during the larger addition/subtraction problems. Dc often learn their facts later with Singapore, but the upside is they generally know them better and also understand the "why" behind the "how" better within story problems.

I have been letting her use the "blocks" from MUS with her problems if she wants to. Usually she may use them for 1-2 but definitely not all of them. Good to know about the facts.....I was struggling a bit with wanting to make sure she understood it all.

I would slow it down for your dd, going to half-speed for awhile. I would do the hands-on lessons multiple times over 2 days, and spread the written assignment out over 2 days. I'd also provide counters for her and let her use them when she wants. She will eventually give them up when ready....I think helping dc over their rough spots by going half-speed does wonders

Thanks Julie! I was planning on doing this; I don't want to push ahead. I thought since the textbooks I found have different problems in them then she can work some of them too.

I'm assuming with your example of 74-36=38 you lined the problem up vertically, had her cross out the 4 and write a tiny little 14 above it and cross out the 7 and write a 6? ok.... I tend to think like singapore seems to (granted I've only gone through 1B, but nothing has been odd to me) here is how I see that problem.... 74 is 60 and 14 because 14 is the next highest with a 4 that you can take 6 away from (you can't take it away from 4, but you can take it away from 14) and 36 is 30 and 6... so I have this in my mind

(60 and 14) - (30 and 6)

So then I regroup it...

(60-30) and (14-6)

then I have 60 - 30 is 30, and 14 -6 is 8, so the answer is 38...

It is MUCH faster in my head than looking at this written down. I just SEE it, and I think from what all I've read on Singapore math that this is what their idea is... I'm doing the same process, but I don't have the weird crossing out of numbers and all that just messes me up.
Since it seems you have her placed correctly.... I see what you are saying, but maybe she thinks like singapore and the way you are wording things when teaching her borrowing is throwing her off?

I'm assuming with your example of 74-36=38 you lined the problem up vertically, had her cross out the 4 and write a tiny little 14 above it and cross out the 7 and write a 6? ok.... I tend to think like singapore seems to (granted I've only gone through 1B, but nothing has been odd to me) here is how I see that problem.... 74 is 60 and 14 because 14 is the next highest with a 4 that you can take 6 away from (you can't take it away from 4, but you can take it away from 14) and 36 is 30 and 6... so I have this in my mind

(60 and 14) - (30 and 6)

So then I regroup it...

(60-30) and (14-6)

then I have 60 - 30 is 30, and 14 -6 is 8, so the answer is 38...

It is MUCH faster in my head than looking at this written down. I just SEE it, and I think from what all I've read on Singapore math that this is what their idea is... I'm doing the same process, but I don't have the weird crossing out of numbers and all that just messes me up.

See, that was explained so well with MUS and I wasn;t taught like that so I struggle with teaching it although it makes sense to me when I see it..... I want her to learn it! Actually with the subtraction we have done the past 2 days it specifically says subtraction by borrowing and then a couple more days say substraction by re-grouping.

.my suggestion to get the TMs was not to suggest you use them INSTEAD of the HOD guide, but that maybe you can use the TMs on your own to help you teach it in ADDITION to the activities in the guide. Just wanted to make that clear.

Thanks! That is my plan

I have no idea... from what I know about "new math" there is a chart involved.

A Chart?? Any idea where I could see that???

I say if you need it just buy the HIGs. They are pretty helpful and have extra games and ideas to go along with the lessons. My ds is doing 2a/2b along with beyond. I have the work/text books, and the HIGs I also use ideas from the Bigger guide.

I hadn't heard of HIG's until this week but will look into them.

MistyP wrote:Thanks Julie! I was planning on doing this; I don't want to push ahead. I thought since the textbooks I found have different problems in them then she can work some of them too...

I think this is a good idea, and what's nice about it is you can sort of look at the textbook problems as optional extra practice you can use sometimes and not use other times, depending on what's needed. I've been putting a few review problems on a markerboard each day, for the areas my ds needed some extra help on, and I've just copied the old problems from the workbook on the markerboard. This has worked well for my ds. He has gotten over the "hump" with those skills, and is rarely missing any that I put on the markerboard now. I try not to go over four problems on the markerboard though, as I don't want math to drag out and for him to be reviewing so much that we can't give new topics there due attention. You'll be able to use your textbook for this type of purpose too. I think that will help your sweetie too.

In Christ,
Julie

Misty,

You've already had a good discussion here, so I'll just chime in with one more tidbit of advice that I have found helpful on our journey through Singapore math. I always had the blessing of being good at math and was really good at memorizing the procedure needed to get an answer. So, as I began teaching my kiddos at home with Singpaore, I was continually baffled as to why Singapore wouldn't just give the kiddos the needed steps or procedure to work a problem. Then, I'd just jump in and explain the steps to my child.

What I've discovered is that Singapore does eventually explain the steps or procedure needed, if I am just patient enough to wait for it (and it can be awhile in coming)! But, by jumping in and giving my child the steps ahead of time, I was treading on Singapore's method of having the kiddos think through the process BEFORE learning the steps. I have since learned to simply follow the Singpore plans (which are well matched to the hands-on activities in the HOD guide and let their process work). When I stopped trying to get between the method and the child, my child did better. I was actually confusing my kiddos by giving them the procedure before they understood why they needed it.

My best advice is to throw out what you think you know about math and try to see it the "Singapore way". There is much beauty and simplicity in the method if you didn't have any prior math knowledge getting in the way! As we're nearing the end of 5A now with one child and finishing 1B with the next child in line, I can truly say I am learning to look at math in a new way (and learning to do things better in my head without paper and all the "steps" for the first time in my life). I can see the beauty in the Singapore method now and am less stressed than I was as we tried many, many of the homeschooling math programs with my poor oldest son (who actually is mathy but was just hampered by his momma looking for the "perfect" fit).

Blessings,
Carrie

So...um...after reading through this whole post I think that I am more unsure about my decision to use Singapore this year and feel more lost than I did teaching my kids math this morning. This is my first year teaching Singapore. Both of my kids have taken the placement test and because I knew Singapore was so different, I went back even further than what the placement recommendation was; so my 2nd grader is in 1A and my 3rd grader is using 2A.

Is there a difference between carrying and regrouping in addition? What is the difference between borrowing and regrouping in subtraction? I've been doing all the activities given in the Beyond/Bigger guides but I'm not getting it, I don't think. It still sounds like carrying and borrowing to me.

Would it be worth it for me to get the textbooks to help me better understand so that I can teach my kids to "see" the Singapore way? They have both been doing great in math up to this point and the only reason I changed to Singapore was to make the time we spent on math more reasonable. My kids are doing fine so far but it wasn't until I read this post that I realized that I may not be telling them how to do it correctly. They both already knew their math facts and had a good understanding of the "why" of math. But now, I'm not sure what to do. I had really wanted Singapore to work for us. I don't want to keep going with it though if I'm not teaching them the way it's meant to be understood.

Thanks Carrie and Julie! I guess I am still trying to see the "singapore way" but hopefully we are getting there!! For the past 3 days we have been reviewing through problems from the textbook, I went back to the renaming addition and subtraction. She gets that part quite easily so hopefully with that review we can slowly move on through the rest. With her just turning 7 I really don't have a problem if we get through both 2A & 2B this school year so we will go with the flow I guess! Hopefully I can get my brain wrapped around it and it will be easy flying teaching it with DD #2 next year She is loving 1A right now.....especially when she gets to eat her hands on math projects!

frankesense,

Much of what was shared about the Singapore way refers to the books coming in the higher levels. As long as you're teaching the lessons in the HOD guides and doing the assigned workbook pages, you're doing just fine. Your children will naturally come up through Singapore and will be getting it that way. The levels from 3A on up is where you more clearly see the difference in the mental math and problem-solving and the previous levels 1A/1B and 2A/2B do much to gently set up the natural progression into that way of thinking. It becomes most obvious in 4A on up, so don't worry right now. It sounds like things are going great!

Blessings,
Carrie