heartofdakota.com

Thank you for taking such time in answering Patty, I really, really appreciate it. My son does NOT like to write BUT..needs to start, we do copy work just not real consistently. My whole thing with him is I want Bible incorporated. He likes Hardy Boys books and the Landmark books about Davy Crocket etc..I am not sure what "reading" level they are but he does well w/ those books.

I want really great, interesting books to spark an "I want to read more" in him. My older girls just had this, I could not keep enough books for them! My younger girls are going to be the same and I know he isn't them but I do want him doing copywork, reading, writing, using his mind. I have decided we need to limit tv, especially durning the week. He is not allowed vidoe games, we don't have the money for it and we have not allowed it but...they do watch tv and I need to cut back on that.

Thank you again for walking me through this process...it is so much appreciated! I want him to enjoy really good books and not "twaddle"!

I really don't care if we do Bigger or Prepaing, I want to do what is best!!



Kim

I understand about wanting him to read. My dd loves to read and I'm having a difficult time keeping enough good books for her to read without getting into the ones I want to use for school. My ds on the other hand isn't as into reading. He is doing much better and loves the books that he has read. I don't see him often grab a book to go sit down and read for fun though. I am hoping that someday that will come. I looked up the Hardy Boy books and it looks like they around sixth grade level. That's pretty good! I don't think you'll have problems at all finding some good quality books at his level for him to read. If you want to find something for him to read right away, you might want to browse the HOD book shop for some ideas. You could always try a sample book or two from the DITHOR lists for him to try. Many of them are probably available at your local library.

Another thing I was thinking that might be really helpful for you is to print out the introduction and first weeks plans of both Bigger and Preparing. Go over them really well to see what you would be doing each day and see how you feel your dd and ds would do in each program. Would they be able to do all of the boxes? Would you have to tweak it at all? In Preparing would they soon be able to do the independent boxes independently? How much hand holding would you have to do? You can also look over the book choices for both programs and see which ones appeal most to you and your dc. It sounds like you are really drawn to Preparing and though I haven't done it, I am sure it is an awesome program. I think if you really study the plans, you'll get an idea if this will be a good fit for your dd and ds.

One other thing I was thinking is that since your biggest concern is getting your older dc placed and moving along that it might not be a bad idea to start with the program for them first. Allow yourself time to find your groove and get them going the right direction before you start the program with your younger dc. Your younger dc have plenty of time yet and I hear in your post that you have a sense of urgency now with your ds. It would be much easier for you to just start one program at a time and get the wrinkles ironed out first. It would be helpful for your dc too since this will be new to them. After a few weeks or month of them getting used to the program, then you will be more available to help get the younger dc started.

Hopefully talking this helps a little and some of the more experienced HODers will jump in and give you some advice too.

Thank you so much Patty for your very helpful posts! I had replied and I am not sure where it went, now to remember what I said .

Okay...w/ my son, I am really wanting structure, good readers (her really likes Hardy Boys and Landmark books about Daniel Boone etc...). Not sure what "reading level" those are but he does well with those. I also want to incorporate Bible Study, copywork etc.. He does NOT like to write but it is time for him to start writing a lot more, he needs the practice. So....we just need to get on track and keep going.

I am really needing to get him a really good program, even if I would get a different one for my younger daughter, she will pretty much do whatever but I am focusing on my son because he needs to "get busy" and I need the structure to help him. My older girls seem so easy now, they read everything they could get their hands on, I guess I got spoiled w/ them. I could not keep enough good books, my younger two daughters are going to be the same way, they love to read.

What I need for my son is just to really get started on a schedule, regular reading, writing, etc..but I don't want it to drive him into the ground. I was going to do Robinson Curriculum for the great books BUT...I am not going to make him sit for 5 hours a day, that would drive him crazy, we need to start fairly slow but start and progress over time.

I really don't care if we start w/ Bigger or Prepaing, I want to start where he will find great books that will keep his interest, start writing, doing regular Bible work etc...

Whew...think I remembered most of my post...ha!

Thank you so much for all your help and for walking me through this process. I am well...really struggling with a lot w/ my son, it has been very difficult and I know part of it is...he needs a good structured program but one that won't run us into the ground, give him great readers (not twaddle) etc...

Blessings!

Kim

Oh...this is too funny, I did not think my post was showing up I just realized there was a page 2..... Now...I will go back and see how much I remembered.

Thank you again, I will not post twice this time. Printing out the first weeks of both programs sounds like a great idea!!!

Kim

kim,
i'm typing on my laptop... so lots of typos I skimmed the other responses and they were great... i hope I won't repeat or contradict them.

I understand about feeling like your ds's skills are all over the place. it took me awhile to figure out my oldest because he reads a lot - some of it fairly challenging - but he hasn't been required to do a lot of output - notebooking, copywork, writing, projects... seem to fall by the wayside and writing skills lag behind a bit. I started out with him in RTR - and yes he *could* do the work, but it wasn't with the enthusiasm I hoped for or the excellence I wanted. Long story short, I decided he needed to do more of his school with his brother for the sake of togetherness. So i moved him all the way to Bigger with extensions to meet that need. Whether or not you need extensions for your ds you will have to decide - but it would be one way to distinguish his "level" from your dd if that's at all a concern. One of the positives for combining them in bigger is it would have you using only 2 guides instead of three. this made a BIG difference for me. Just fewer irons in the fire, so to speak. Also I am LOVING the Bible study in bigger. the focus on character traits is fantastic! Our Bible verse this week is Do not plan evil against your neighbor who dwells trustingly beside you. do not contend with a man for no reason who has done you no harm.... do you know how many times I've had them repeat that this week when they began picking at each other in fun? So much application!

I'm not experienced yet with R&S.... I already had plans for a lighter year using Daily Grams... but I will probably change to R&S next year. I will say this.... queen's language lessons have been very appealing to me as well. I have some of the volumes for little ones. But I found that since it's trying to cover so many aspects of Language Arts it felt redundant to some other things we were using at the time. it might be that way with HOD as well? HOD will cover spelling with dictation, it will cover narrations and copywork, etc. So, will Queen be redundant? maybe? HOD has great flexibility for using whatever works best for you with LA and Math... but there is comfort in trusting the guide and using HOD's recommendations. I know because I have been a "grass is greener" kind of curricula shopper (not that you have been!) and it's a relief to stop thinking about it.

I don't know if any of that is helpful. I pray that God will give you peace as you decide what to do!

Thank you so much, VERY, VERY helpful. I appreciate it so much. Thank you for what you said about the Bible study because bickering has been such an issue lately and you can imagine, w/ 7 children.... My older girls, and my 9 year old are very helpful though it is just..wow!

I have been a "grass is greener" in curriculum. I was reading a post on the Simply Charlotte Mason website and someone metioned they are a better planner than doer, unfortunately this has been me. I look, this looks GREAT, oh...wow, look at that, plan it and the doing has been hard. I meet with much resistance from my son and there are times when I just well..it doesn't get done. But..we are going to remedy that. I am TIRED of curriculum shopping, it stresses me out and I know there is not a PERFECT curriculum so I have figured out what is important to me and HOD fits pretty much all of it!

I was going to cancel my order for Queen's LL but they already shipped. One thing I really love, I have LLFTVY, is the picture study! That is the main thing actually but I don't really want to spend a lot just for picture study, I will not use their phonics, we are doing ETC and Alpha Phonics so I think just for pictures study I should do something else. It is just one more thing to figure out and I really like that it is in a workbook format and tells me what questions to ask.

I know, for me and my family, I need everything really laid out for me, I have too much going on, I don't want to try and pull in a bunch of different things, I get overwhelmed and then nothing gets used!

So...I may just use the Queen's for picture study and copywork, it is very light on that it looks like.

Thank you all for your help....I really appreciate it very much!!

Kim

Question about Drawn Into The Heart of Reading. What all do you get for that and how do you use it? Would I get Level 2/3 for my 9 year old and level 4/5 for my son?

Or...should I wait on that?

Thanks again!!!!


Kim

For Drawn into the Heart of Reading, you'll need the teacher's manual which covers all levels. Then you'll need the student notebook for each student at their level. I would guess that 2/3 would be about the right level for your dd and level 4/5 would be right for you ds. Then after that you can get the optional book projects book for grade 2 and grade 4. I think those project books would be right for those 2 levels of student books. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. The book list is also handy to have so you might want that. Then you can get the books packs or choose your own books using the book list. For your daughter, you would probably get either the level 2 or level 3 book pack; for you son probably the level 4/5 set for boys. If he likes Daniel Boone, I think he'll really like that book pack! That would be everything that you would need, I think, for DITHOR.

You could certainly start DITHOR right away with whichever program you choose as it will be scheduled, but if you find it too overwhelming, you could wait a couple of weeks to start it. This year, we started our guide a week before starting DITHOR just because I wasn't quite ready yet. Either way will work fine. The work is independent of your program guide but scheduled for you, if that makes sense.

*Edit*: Kim, as I was driving for a while today and had some time to think, I was thinking over your DITHOR placement. I got to thinking that you might decide to go with level 6/7/8 in the workbook for your ds and possibly even level 4/5 for your daughter. Each level up requires a bit more writing and more in depth thinking. You probably should look at the sample: http://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/d1.pdf to get an idea of what the different levels entail. You might want to consider getting the DITHOR package that includes all of the student level books if you can. This way you'll be able to look them over really well before deciding where to place your dc. I'm thinking you'll end up using all of the levels eventually with at least one of your dc so it might be more cost efficient and help you in placement too to get the combo package. That's just something I was thinking as I was going down the road.

Blessedwithseven,

The ladies are doing a great job of talking through your possible options with you. They are wonderful at giving of their time to help each person find the best fit for their family.

As I'm thinking over what you've shared, I can see that you have a very busy family. Since you're leaning in the combining direction, I see a few options to ponder. One would be to combine both of your older two in Bigger Hearts. In order to use that plan, you'd need to do some beefing up for your 13 year old (using a higher level of math and English, a different science than what is scheduled within Bigger possibly using a science from one of our other guides, a higher level of dictation, add a writing program such as Igniting Your Writing, and use a higher level of Drawn into the Heart of Reading). Here is a link to a thread that gives some suggestions for beefing up Bigger Hearts for an older student: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=640

In this scenario, you could have your 13 year old join your 9 year old for the left side of the Bigger Hearts plans each day and for the Storytime part on the right side of the daily plans. You could then use one of the guides like Preparing Hearts to follow the schedule for the 3R's, using Rod and Staff 4 full-speed for your 13 year old, using the higher level of dictation passages for his spelling, using the higher level of math as Preparing schedules 2A/2B, 3A/3B, and 4A/4B, and using the science from Preparing Hearts. Then, you'd use Igniting Your Writing for the 13 year old's writing program and Drawn into the Heart of Reading Level 6/7/8 if your child is a 7th grader. If your 13 year old hasn't had much formal literature study, you could do Level 4/5 of DITHR instead for one year. You may wish to look at using the Level 5/6 Boy Pack along with DITHR, linked here: http://www.heartofdakota.com/DITHOR56-boys-pack.php

Or, if this doesn't seem challenging enough, you could use the 3R's and the science from CTC for your 13 year old instead to combine with Bigger Hearts. Another scenario would be to see if your 9 year old would be able to do Preparing Hearts with your 13 year old instead. Then, you would do Preparing Hearts as your core program for both. This would work only if your 9 year old could handle reading the Deluxe Package books in Preparing Hearts and can copy several sentences at a time fairly easily as well as listen to more chapter book style read-alouds well. If you'd like to share more about your 9 year old, then we'd be able to tell whether that may be a possibility instead.
This would result in less beefing up needed for your 13 year old.

I think your younger pair would fit well in LHFHG.

If you want to pop back and share your thoughts that would be great!

Blessings,
Carrie

Oh boy, my head is hurting..ha!

Thank you Carrie for your post. I am really struggling with what to do and I need to get this figured out, then stick with it. I has been so difficult to figure out what would be right. My son will probably be going to work with his dad a few days a week (2 at the most) so...I am not sure what to do. I am going to be getting him some workbook stuff to do at work, he could do his reading etc...but...for now this is what is going to be happening.

Now..my 9 year old is probably reading at a 2nd/3rd grade level, still asking about some words. Not proficient or fluent yet, not done (totally) with phonics. She is reading the last book in the Pathway Readers and she reads those pretty quick, ready to buy the next set.

I think those start out at 1st grade level and end in 2nd grade level..don't know for sure. Both kids can do copy work etc... Hannah, my 9 year old, writes letters (short letters) to my mom and dad and does pretty well. My son hardly writes, he does not like writing, handwriting is pretty sloppy. When we first started handwriting, years ago, his writing was very neat. I am learning so much through all of this, practice, continual writing etc...I am regretting having math on the computer, phonics/spelling on the computer. I am going to be getting Italic for both my 9 year old and 13 year old. I have not pushed my son in writing and I wish I had had him do just a little everday. Last night he was reading out of his book and I told him today I just want him to write about it or pick something he enjoys (hunting...etc..) and write just a brief page. So...we will start there.

I don't think I would need to do too much "beefing" up for him actually, I am thinking the books in Preparing would be too difficult for my daughter but...maybe using 2 guides would be good, I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't try to combine them and just focus on something different for my son. I can't afford to get 3 programs, honestly. I can't even get 2 right now....could probably get 2 guides.

I don't know how to "fast track" him into getting going. I had thought about getting Writing w/ Ease and just have him start narrating, doing copy work and dictation but that is in the guides isn't it? I don't want to start trying to add here and there or I am going to be frustrated trying to get it all to work into our day.

I don't know if any of this helped. My husband and I talked last night and one thing he said, he has always said, "yes...HOD sounds great....BUT....whatever you get you need to stick with it", I agree.

I have learned a lot through all of this, w/ my younger 4 I am not going to make the same mistakes, getting years down the road realizing they are behind here or there because I tried to pull in everything on my own.

So...I know ONE THING, I do believe HOD is the way I want to go, I NEED THIS VERY MUCH!! Just need to figure how to do it.

I will say that in early Feb. money won't be too much of an issue, I can get all the guides/books so I don't know if between now and then I should get Bigger, get him going on something like Writing With Ease, I have a great grammar program (Grammar Key) that will get him jump started in grammar. He has a "spelling" program (sort of), he uses PHonics Tutor Frequent Words (which I am questioning, OF COURSE). He covers like 80 phonograms and I am wondering what the point is of so many. My son really likes workbooks and I am wondering if I need to just forget about further "phonics" and get him doing some sort of spelling program. I just worry about him "guessing" at words but when I ask him about what he is reading he can tell me. His comprehension of what was read, by him or by me out loud, has always been good.

CAN I JUST SAY AGAIN...I really appreciate everyones help in this, it has been quite exasperating, sad, frustrating, trying to figure out how to get him going. I almost called Christian Liberty Press and had them do an assessment and just recommend a curriculum, which would be mostly workbooks but...It would keep him going ahead. I think HOD will work though and I want him to really enjoy the learning process.

I will say one more thing (I AM SORRY THIS IS SO LONG)...He doesn't do well w/ lots of "instruction", his attention span is not real great, he is a "let me see it and do it". I have not been a huge fan of "learning styles" but it has been obvious w/ him, he needs to just do, he has actually been one that really prefers workbooks that he can do on his own, maybe it is me he just doesn't like hearing my voice . But..I don't want to stick him with a stack of workbooks either. I do want him to be as independent as possible in learning as I do all of my children...as they get older in grades.

Okay..I am done now, thank you again so much. I read your posts and consider what you say so I do greatly appreciate this help!!!

Kim (homeschooling mom of 7)

Well,
Do you already have an LA and math proram for the older 2?
I have sevenkids and this is what I would do, minus the LA and Math because I don't know what you have or like.

I would put the older 2, 9 and 13 year old, in Bigger Hearts. I would add books to Beef it up for the 13 year old. I would not do DITHOR right now. I would add written narrations to hi readers. I would focus on the 13 year old to get him up to par.
I would use Little Hearts for the 5 and 6 year old, but spread it over 2 years. That should take some pressure off, they will still be learning, and you can get some things in order to make life simpler.

That sounds great.

You know what, I just printed of the "Introduction" to Bigger...why am I worried about Queen LL? Bigger has all the LA activites correct so...the only thing Queen's would have are the picture studies but...I don't need that right now. I can figure it out later.

So..for my 9 year old there would be dictation and narration and copywork. Why didn't I read that sooner. Bigger is the one I need to do, just seems to fit. I can beef up where I need to for my son, maybe use the Writing With Ease, not even sure I would need that.

Now...I really want to start NOW..ha! Got to figure out the ordering issue. See...I almost got Language from Sonlight because it schedules in the Explode the Code, which we like for her BUT..she is doing that online, she will get the reading from the reader set, Beginner Bible and those...plus I looked at the spelling in the Introduction and this just looks perfect for her.

Okay...starting to feel a sense of relief...NOW..I need to stop trying to add and figure it out because Bigger looks like it would have everything I need for her.

Kim

Well, I just read this whole thread, and this is exciting! I like LHFHG for the younger two, and Bigger Hearts sounds right for the older two. Only doing 2 programs will really give you some time to focus on your 13 yo's reading and writing especially. I think this is key, and doing only 2 guides will give you ample time to really give that attention. Bigger Hearts is an outstanding program! I do think you will need to pray for perseverance with your oldest, as even though Bigger Hearts is a wonderful program, getting your oldest into a routine of reading and writing consistently every single day when he's not been used to that will take some real commitment. BUT, it will be sooooooo worth it, because once you get that routine going, every year will get easier as ds gets more and more independent - which is what it sounds like he wants anyway. We have 3 sons, and I have to say as much as they like schooling with HOD, they love their playtime. I think this is pretty common for boys, so clipping along with an established routine and finishing school in a short amount of time is key. Here is a great link for how long each of the boxes in Bigger Hearts should take:

BHFHG time it takes:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=702

LHFHG time it takes:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4244&p=31219#p31219

We do 3 guides, though we do one of them half-speed. It helps me to have some blocks of time for teaching. We are loving our year, so in case something here could help, here's a link of our current schedule:


As more questions arise, be sure to ask, but I think you are going to see some real fruit in this decision. We love HOD and enjoy our homeschooling days very much. I think you will too!
In Christ,
Julie

I just wanted to encourage you that HOD is wondeful. Before this year I've always been a unit study gal, pulling things together myself, making lots of decisions, reading through tons of books, printing lapbooks, cutting them out, deciding what we're going to learn and what we're going to leave etc. I was definitely more drawn to CM, but didn't know how to implement for such young children. Sounds like you're use to getting things together yourself. I was worn down and most the time I'd spend all this planning and not feel like I had much energy left to teach.

In comes HOD, and this has been our best year ever!!!! Everything fun, and hands on is planned out for me and I love it. With all the work done I can add in something if I want (and not be exhausted from all the research), but if I don't, everything is already so rich and full.

I guess I just wanted to say I really think you're going to enjoy HOD and this is coming from a "grass is greener" type gal. I told dh this is the first year I've not second guessed my decision. I do enjoy looking at what others are doing with their dc in future guides. It all looks very exciting and fun. Blessings.