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Carrie wrote:Marcee,

Before anyone jumps in to help you here any further, I am going to respectfully ask you to respond to the questions that the posters in the thread above asked of you when trying to figure out how to help you. This will help all of us advise you better.

I have merged this new thread that you posted with your previous thread above so that those who are trying to help you can see what came before and their advice is not lost.

I'd especially like to know if you are doing Drawn into the Heart of Reading and all of its assigned activities daily? Yes. have her read aloud the chapter to you-She has just been reading to herself. I noticed that DITHOR does recommend her reading some of the assigned pages to me, but didn't realize it until today (using the tips for good reading aloud in the Appendix)-My DD is incredible at this and reads aloud like a grown adult. do the follow-up lesson well in Drawn into the Heart of Reading. On the days we are assigned DITHOR, yes, we do the activities.

Next, I am wanting to know if you are doing Rod and Staff daily as recommended, and if so which level? We are doing 2 and yes we do it daily. Again, she learned what we have covered so far last year.

Then, I am wanting to know if you are doing Singapore math along with all of its assigned hands-on activities each day? Singapore math is so much more than completing the workbook pages. Did you give the Singapore placement test when placing your child? I do not have all the supplies at home so we have not been able to do all of the activities thus far. However, I don't see the point when she can do two pages extremely quick because it was all things she learned last year and doing the activities for her is redundant. I do plan to do activities when she gets farther in to the book and she is learning new skills.I chose level 2 because she did not learn multiplication or division.

Are you completing the Storytime read-alouds with their follow-up activities? I read for 2-3 minutes if that. This does not include activities. Those are completed the following day.

As far as dictation goes, has your daughter done studied dictation in school before? yes This is usually a new skill. Is she studying the passage, then having you dictate it to her one phrase at a time and writing it perfectly with all spelling, capitalization, and end punctuation correct on the first try? I'm thinking that you can't have tried it very long as I thought you were just beginning? How many days has she done dictation and how many passages has she done correctly? My own son rarely missed a passage, but there is much value in doing dictation anyway for the purpose of correct capitalization, punctuation, and usage. It is harder than it looks to reproduce it perfectly without looking. I am supposed to read aloud the passage one line at a time and then have her repeat it and then write it correct? If so, then yes, she can do all of it correct-no mistakes.


Is she doing the cursive as scheduled each day? Yes

What unit are you in of Bigger Hearts? Unit 2 day 2

Are you dong all of the boxes in the guide every day? Yes

Blessings,
Carrie

I tried to answer earlier, but I couldn't get the board to load.

No worries! We're happy to work through this with you and your answers to our questions help so much! Otherwise, we could steer you in the entirely wrong direction simply from misreading the situation! Once you get a chance to thoroughly answer the questions I asked earlier, I will gladly post a thorough response on some things you could ponder that will help!

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie wrote:No worries! We're happy to work through this with you and your answers to our questions help so much! Otherwise, we could steer you in the entirely wrong direction simply from misreading the situation! Once you get a chance to thoroughly answer the questions I asked earlier, I will gladly post a thorough response on some things you could ponder that will help!

Blessings,
Carrie

All questions answered

..........................

Marcee,

Below I'll share my thoughts on each area of the Bigger guide that would be good to ponder in helping make Bigger Hearts successful for your daughter. While you can certainly consider moving up into Preparing Hearts, I can't quite gauge how well she does in her overall written work and how easily she writes as to whether Preparing Hearts would be too much of a jump up in that area for her. Only you can know that. To give you the best guidance, I'd take a look at the placement chart once more and see that your child fits firmly in Bigger Hearts (especially on the first page of the chart). Link: http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

If you do believe she could handle the writing in Preparing Hearts and the readings in the Deluxe Package of Preparing Hearts, then it is possible that a switch to that guide might be a good idea. If, however, you feel the amount of writing would be too much, then staying in Bigger Hearts with the suggestions below would make sense.

First off, I think from what you've shared so far that a switch to Rod and Staff 3 would be fine, as long as your child is ready for simple diagramming. Before getting rid of 2 though, I'd look through most of it to see that she's past it as it's hard to tell after only two weeks of school.

Next, DITHR is meant to be done daily five days a week. Your child is meant to read aloud at least half of each reading to you, and then complete the follow-up assignment. If she's a good writer, you should expect more from her follow-up assignments as far as the length of her responses. For a strong writer/reader, longer more in-depth answers to the questions (both oral and written) should be a requirement. The questions in the DITHR guide come from all levels of Bloom's Taxonomy and are part of why the program was chosen as one of Cathy Duffy's Top 100 Curriculum Picks. So, with that type of analytical thinking in the guide, it shouldn't be too easy.

If the books your child is reading seem too easy, it would be wise to up the level of her Book Pack. If you prefer her to read Level 4/5 Girl that would be fine. The book sets are not tied to a specific Student Book. Simply exchange the unread books for different ones that are more challenging. Or, you could choose books off the Sample Book Ideas List to have her read more books for each genre instead. She can read 1-3 books for each unit, based on what you feel suits her needs best. Remember that slower, thoughtful reading is the goal though, as we want children to live with a book to be able to predict a character's responses and actions.

As far as the storytime books go, again you may easily choose to read more than one book for each genre. I would probably lean toward reading one book slowly for Storytime during the school day, and doing the follow-up right after it (as it works best that way right after the reading). Then, fully do the follow-up activity as written. I'm still confused in this area as to the time allotment you're mentioning being 2-3 minutes. Which book are you currently reading for storytime? I still can't figure out how it can be taking 2-3 minutes to read aloud? Plus, the follow-up is much more than the two questions you mentioned and should take longer. I read through the plans for storytime that you were referring to on Unit 2-Day 3 and see much more there! It is meant to be a lesson that gives insight into the character through his/her quotations. As another extension possibly at night you could read through our other storytime book choices more quickly covering as many of the sets as you have time at a quicker pace, not tied to the activities.

For the math, I'd make sure to test her to see that she is correctly placed. With Singapore math, it is so important to either be doing the activities in our guide, or going over the textbook lessons, so kiddos understand the Singapore method. Without knowing where she places in the pre-test, we can't help more in that area as I'm not sure what she knows math-wise. Link to placement test: http://www.singaporemath.com/Placement_Test_s/86.htm
If she does test into 2A/2B, the hands-on activities in the Bigger Hearts guide become very important. This is because they replace the textbook lesson.

With the vocabulary cards, I would definitely up her to doing 3 cards each time, if she is easily completing this task. Make sure to require excellence in her pictures and sentences.

For dictation, you have a couple of options. If you do switch to Preparing Hearts, you can use the passages for Level 3 or 4. If you do not wish to purchase the Preparing Hearts guide, then you can do dictation from your child's literature readings instead. Either choose a paragraph from her DITHR readings or from your storytime readings. Have her study the paragraph. Then, dictate it to her one phrase at a time (not mentioning where any punctuation or capitalization goes). Then, have her repeat it and write it. Last, have her check what she wrote against the model in the book by herself, fixing any errors immediately. She should keep the same passage for as many days in a row as needed until she passes it perfectly. She should not forget any punctuation of any kind, or capitalization, for the passage to be passed. This is a very CM way to do studied dictation.

As far as science goes, it is necessary to do the experiments and to fully complete the lab sheets. The same is true for the notebooking and narrations in science. The assigned passages of readings each day are kept purposefully short in science to allow for a child to have time to complete the follow-ups very well. These skills will be needed in the guides from Preparing Hearts on up. Science is one area where your daughter could begin to have more independence, reading right from the guide and reading the assigned pages and doing the assignments more independently (except the narrating). Just make sure her work is done well and that nothing is skipped.

She could also begin to read her history readings herself and be responsible for getting out her supplies to be prepared for the follow-up assignments you will do with her. See how much she can read and follow on her own in this area. Just make sure to participate in the areas required so that nothing is skipped.

Should you choose to remain in Bigger Hearts, I'd also have her do the Extension Pack for Bigger Hearts and the follow-up written narrations twice weekly, oral narrations twice weekly, and notebooking once weekly. This raises the level of the study.

In closing, I'm having a tough time figuring out your little sweetie as she went from loving Bigger Hearts last week and begging for more to finding it boring this week. With only two weeks of school at home under her belt, it's hard to weigh which emotion to give more weight to when pondering placement. This is why I cannot clearly tell you whether Bigger or Preparing is the best fit.

I'm wondering if she is simply exercising her will this week and trying to see what effect or impact that has on you? This is just a thought, as I know it is something my oldest son does sometimes that can get me all worked up too. For what it's worth, we do not allow our children to use the word "bored" or "boring" at our house, and we do require that they do their work with a cheerful heart (no matter how they may feel about it). We do have them stand in the corner for a poor attitude until they are ready to come out and be cheerful. If they spend too long changing their attitude while in the corner, we assign them a chore to do instead, prior to going back to their schoolwork. This may or may not suit your household goals, but I share it because we have discovered that the habit of working cheerfully (or not) is one that follows our children no matter what they do in life. A cheerful countenance is a habit we desire our kiddos to cultivate, and we try to teach our kiddos that joy is not based on your circumstance but comes from Christ living within you.

Hope something in here may help!

Blessings,
Carrie

Hi Marcee,

I thought we were close to the same day in Bigger, but I didn't realize we were exactly at the same place. We did Week 2, Day 2 today as well. I thought I would keep track of my time today for each activity so I could share with you how it went for us. I thought that would give you something with which to compare. Sorry if this is too long or more than you were wanting.

Today was a longer day than some of the previous ones. I think we are a little tired from our new schedule and might not be as on top of things as before. We did Bible first which took 10 minutes. Today had the Little Pillows devotional activity with it so it took a bit longer as we discussed that. Usually this box takes us a bit less time. We then did the music. We're actually singing all 4 verses and my dc pretty much have them memorized already, but enjoy the singing. That took less than 5 minutes. Next the History reading took us about 7 minutes followed by the activity that took around 8 minutes. So a total of 15 minutes for the reading and activity. I know this is shorter than the recommended time and on days with longer readings or notebooking activities we would be more in the 20 to 25 minute range total. The Poem took us 5 minutes, but I am not having my dc copy it yet. I may choose to do this later. So the poetry section is just reading and discussing the poem. On a side note, I really like this week's poem! We then did dictation which took 5 minutes. We did passage 4. So far my dc are having no difficulties at all with the passages. I may decide to skip a head in difficulty later, but right now I just want them to get used to dictation. I should mention they did their Cheerful Cursive before we started our other activities and that took about 5 minutes. So our left side of the plans plus dictation and cursive took about 45 minutes total. We then took a break. Our recess was a little too long today, but we all needed it.

When we came back to work after our break, we did math first. Today took us around 30 minutes for math. Up until today most days had taken us only 10 minutes. It's been very easy for them so far and I think this is typical at the beginning of the year for any program. They intentionally review and start slowly to let the dc get back into the program. Today we took a bit longer because the skills were working more on mental math in addition and subtraction with larger numbers. My dd has a tendency to reach for a pencil whenever she sees something over 2 digits being added so I wanted to take some extra time today to have her practice doing these activities mentally. There is nothing wrong with using a pencil and paper, writing the problem down, and doing the regrouping, but it is a valuable skill to be able to see numbers in a different way and be able to quickly manipulate them in one's head. So I thought it warranted the extra time to practice this skill. So we did an extra worksheet which also had some fun things to color thus all of our extra time at math today. Still 30 minutes isn't that long for a math lesson.

Next we did grammar. Grammar also took us longer today because we were diagramming sentences with more than one predicate or subject. Anything that involves writing tends to slow us down. We did one of the activities on the whiteboard taking turns with my dc then they did the rest on paper. This wasn't an activity that lent itself well to doing orally so it took longer than usual. Normally grammar will take more like 10 to 15 minutes since we do the majority of it orally and today it took 30.

Storytime was next and that took us a bit longer today too because we were working on the dc narrating. It's still a new skill for them (and me) and so it takes us a while to get it. I decided to read a section of about a page and 1/2, have one of them narrate and then do the next section and have the next one narrate. This worked out well, but it took us longer. It took about 20 minutes. Usually with the discussion or activity, we take more like 15 minutes. We're reading, Ben and Me, at a pace of one chapter per day.

Science was our really slow subject today. We had the notebooking activity which involved drawing several pictures. It took between 5 and 10 minutes for me to clearly communicate what needed to be done and put an example on the white board. Then it took them about 30 to 40 minutes each to be able to write their verses, draw their pictures, label them, and then write a sentence about it. So science was about 45 minutes today. On the days when we've just done narration, it's been as little as 10 to 15 minutes. I think this is the first day that we've gone beyond the normal 30 minutes. What I did too so that I wasn't there waiting on them, after 30 minutes, we moved onto the DITHOR activity which today was more of a pre-reading activity. I then took one of them to read with me while the other finished their drawing. We then switched. It took each of my dc around 20 minutes to read their DITHOR assignment. So DITHOR was 30 minutes with the activity for each of my dc or actually about 50 minutes of my time listening to readers.

So if you total all of that up that is about 3 hours and 20 minutes for each child. Like I mentioned this was a long day. Typically the day would be about an hour less. Of course some of that is just because it is the beginning of the year. As the year goes on, there will be less review and more new things. This will require more time. I hope seeing how our day went might help you.

In looking at your math level, I wonder if you should just cover the areas that are unfamiliar with her in Singapore 2 and then move onto Singapore 3. That's a tough call because Singapore does have a different way of looking at some things and you don't want to confuse her later on. So on the one hand, doing all of the activities and letting her get used to the Singapore way is a great thing. On the other hand, you don't want her bored to the point that she isn't having fun and enjoying learning. You could consider taking 2 at a faster pace if that would help. That might be a good idea. Besides the math and division, did she know everything else on the Singapore 2B placement test? I'm thinking if she was able to do the rest of the work, I might just pick out the units that have the multiplication and division in them, cover them with the hands on activities and then move onto Singapore 3. If on the other hand, she struggles a little on the 2B placement test because of differences in terminology or the way Singapore states things, then I would go through 2, but possibly pace it a little faster so that you are holding her interest and spending about 20 minutes per day.

For grammar, if R&S2 is too much of review for her, I would definitely go ahead and move her up to R&S3.

As far as dictation, I would try to get the Preparing guide if you can. If you are planning on continuing in HOD next year, you'll need the guide anyway so you'll have your purchase already taken care of for next year. If you are still unsure about whether you'll use Preparing since this is your first year, I would look online for various levels of dictation and see if you can find something you feel more comfortable in using for her. The same thing goes for the Beyond guide for the math activities. It is an advance purchase to get that guide now, but it is something that you will use next year so it isn't wasted. It just means you'll be spending the money now instead of next year.

One thing I thought I would mention. I asked my dc today what they thought of school. Their first response was that it was fun. I asked them if they felt it was difficult and they said, "no, it's easy." I asked them about past years of school and whether or not it was difficult. Their response again was that it was fun and mostly easy. I tell you that to let you know that this is my third year with HOD and every year has been easy and fun for my dc. They enjoy school, love to learn, and are disappointed when school ends at the end of the year. I love that they are having a great time and that it is easy for me too! This past spring we had to test as a requirement for the state. My dc did very well performing well above grade level in every area. I think that is one of the wonderful things about the CM style of learning and HOD; it is deceptively simple and easy, yet it is very effective! On the other hand, you do need to make sure that your dc are enjoying learning and are not bored to the point where they are not enjoying school. My dh and I both were children who were bored in ps and that is a terrible place to be. I want to assure you though that it is ok to have fun and not take all day with your school work. If you and your dd are at the place you would like to be, then have a good time and enjoy the ride. If though you feel you need to challenge her more, up the math and grammar, choose higher level reading books for DITHOR, etc.

I hope you made it through all of that and it helps a little.

Marcee,
Recently my dd7 has been just the opposite. She is enjoying LHFHG, but lately she's been saying 'I can't do it!', especially with reading and handwriting. I know they can be a struggle for her sometimes, but I also know that most of the time it is because she just doesn't want to try. I have to discern which it is. She will just say sometimes that it is too hard, so then I know she just doesn't want to do it. But, when it is exercising the will, like Carrie mentioned, that is when more serious instruction and discipline need to be exercised. My dd was also comparing me to her K teacher. I finally told her that K is over, she is homeschooling and this is the way we are doing things. She is very emotional and will use those emotions to manipulate. Also, because of her past neglect before she was adopted, I HAVE been too easy on her. With recent developments in her attitude and behavior, I am having to take a stronger approach, even if she gets upset and starts saying things like 'I want to go live somewhere else'. I know she doesn't mean it, but she is very vocal and will say whatever comes off the top of her head. She soon comes to me and says what is really on her heart. She tells me she loves me. Her cheerfulness definitely is based on what is bringing her pleasures. I've been reminding her over and over that our love for someone isn't because of what they do for us. I keep reminding her that, although I have to discipline sometimes, I will always love her. That is how Christ's love is toward us. She's starting to catch on. I didn't have to deal with very strong-willed biological dc, so this is new for me. All I can say is that I need to be firm and consistent by not allowing dd to dictate what, how, or when we do schoolwork.

I am not familiar with Bigger, so I can't help as far as lesson plans. But, I would encourage you to start implementing something like Carrie mentioned. Whether it is giving you a hard time about schoolwork or being unkind to her brother, your dd needs to know that her behavior will not be tolerated. I know I need to enforce more with my dd, so I can, in some ways, identify with you. I will pray for your wisdom in this area.

Carrie wrote:Marcee,
To give you the best guidance, I'd take a look at the placement chart once more and see that your child fits firmly in Bigger Hearts (especially on the first page of the chart). Link: http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php
The one reason I didn't pick prepared was because of this: "Knows how to form upper and lower case cursive letters; ready to copy sentences in cursive; begin creative writing and written narration lessons" . I thought she would be ready for most of the other things on the placement chart, but I thought I read somewhere that the items listed near the top of the charts were things the child "needed" to know for that level.

If, however, you feel the amount of writing would be too much, then staying in Bigger Hearts with the suggestions below would make sense. My other concern with putting her in Preparing was "Creative Writing". I don't know how much this requires. Would she do Essays? Write multiple page stories?

First off, I think from what you've shared so far that a switch to Rod and Staff 3 would be fine, as long as your child is ready for simple diagramming. Before getting rid of 2 though, I'd look through most of it to see that she's past it as it's hard to tell after only two weeks of school. Should I attempt to have her do lessons in the back of the book? I looked through the end of the book today and I believe she could do them.

Next, DITHR is meant to be done daily five days a week. Your child is meant to read aloud at least half of each reading to you, and then complete the follow-up assignment. If she's a good writer, you should expect more from her follow-up assignments as far as the length of her responses. Can you give me a length guideline? Should this be several sentences? Should it be thought out more like a presentation? For a strong writer/reader, longer more in-depth answers to the questions (both oral and written) should be a requirement. Would this be narrating and writing more specific details and facts from the reading?

If the books your child is reading seem too easy, it would be wise to up the level of her Book Pack. If you prefer her to read Level 4/5 Girl that would be fine. I didn't choose 4/5 because while I thought while she could read them, they may be too much for her in words and detail-with the possibility that she would get overwhelmed and not like them. Does this make sense? Or, you could choose books off the Sample Book Ideas List to have her read more books for each genre instead. We will be doing this for the rest of the biography unit. The list is SO helpful and we will be using to get books from the library.Remember that slower, thoughtful reading is the goal. This is something that we talked about today. There is so much I missed during my first reading of the DITHOR manual. I was just having her read the assigned pages and then do the worksheets

I'm still confused in this area as to the time allotment you're mentioning being 2-3 minutes. Which book are you currently reading for storytime? We are reading Ben and Me. A chapter a day. It doesn't take me long to read a chapter-they are on average 7 pages. One page might be a full picture. The font is 14pt? So the words aren't small. The read alouds are for me to read right? If so, I read at a normal pace. Plus, the follow-up is much more than the two questions you mentioned and should take longer. I read through the plans for storytime that you were referring to on Unit 2-Day 3 and see much more there! There were 3 questions for today: "What can you learn about the character from the quote?" "How does it make you feel?" "What thoughts does the quote bring to your mind?" How long should this take?

With the vocabulary cards, I would definitely up her to doing 3 cards each time, if she is easily completing this task. Make sure to require excellence in her pictures and sentences. I did 3 today. She had no idea what the words meant even after reading the sentence in the book. She is using them in context once we have the definition written down. Her pictures are average. Are we supposed to be reviewing the words?


For dictation, you have a couple of options. If you do switch to Preparing Hearts, you can use the passages for Level 3 or 4. If you do not wish to purchase the Preparing Hearts guide, then you can do dictation from your child's literature readings instead. I'll give this a go.

Science is one area where your daughter could begin to have more independence, reading right from the guide and reading the assigned pages and doing the assignments more independently (except the narrating). I think this would work really well!

She could also begin to read her history readings herself and be responsible for getting out her supplies to be prepared for the follow-up assignments you will do with her. See how much she can read and follow on her own in this area. Just make sure to participate in the areas required so that nothing is skipped. I will start this tomorrow. She has often asked why she can't read certain books by herself. I thought it was because I had to read them

Should you choose to remain in Bigger Hearts, I'd also have her do the Extension Pack for Bigger Hearts and the follow-up written narrations twice weekly, oral narrations twice weekly, and notebooking once weekly. This raises the level of the study. I'll look into this

In closing, I'm having a tough time figuring out your little sweetie as she went from loving Bigger Hearts last week and begging for more to finding it boring this week. With only two weeks of school at home under her belt, it's hard to weigh which emotion to give more weight to when pondering placement. This is why I cannot clearly tell you whether Bigger or Preparing is the best fit. That's a girl for ya! Once we did m/u work on Monday-she decided it was too much! Maybe she is exercising her will. It certainly wouldn't surprise me

Thanks for you help

Thank you Marcee, for answering the many questions! That does help so much, and even though I know it took you a bunch of time, it really helped everyone help with even more detailed responses. I cannot believe the outpouring of responses you've had here. I know of no other board where ladies are this gracious with their time. Pjdobro - what a thoughtful thing to time out your day and write exactly how it went - very useful information considering you are on the same exact day! Carrie - as the author I find it amazing you take the time you do to help out - that post must have taken you an hour - again, very thoughtful! Everyone is really putting some time into this - and I think that with our heads together - and some constant prayer - we can figure this out!

Reflection is such a good thing as it paints the fullest picture of what's going on with our dc. So, going back to the start of Bigger Hearts for your dd, I remember she had great praise for it... (I remember because I loved your post ):
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Then, we talked about beefing it up here, but PHFHG seemed too difficult yet...
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Now, she seems to be fluctuating from a 2 - 2.5 hours max complaining of "boredom" (a word that sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard to me ) to taking until 2 PM to do 3 subject of school now...

I can see how you are frustrated here, because I do believe you've got an up and down, emotional little gal here on your hands! I don't have girls, but I do have 1 precious ds who is quite emotional - either flying high - or down in the doldrums (his Eeyore type mood, I think of it as ). He also went through a stage of bothering baby brother, though this has improved, and now I'd say baby brother bothers him. The best things to combat this with my middle ds were to work hard to have a consistent routine, a quieter work place for him, and strong (yet loving ) discipline. For dc like this, a change in the routine can really throw them off and get those emotions flowing (in a not great way). For example, if we start school late, it is an uphill battle to get school done because my ds is still thinking somehow we will finish the same time. I know what it is like to have a dh who travels (hugs ), but do you think that could have thrown her off on the 2PM day? We all have off days, but do you usually have a routine order of doing the boxes for her each day? If not, I'd really encourage you to give that a try with her. This is huge in helping my ds' maintain a steady "emotional" attitude for the day. Even if the start time can't be exactly the same, just having a routine order of doing the boxes would be good. My toddler can't be by my middle ds when he's doing school subjects that require more thought. Do you have a plan for what little brother is doing while dd is doing school? I have come to believe that my toddler can make or break my school day (he can be LOUD). So, setting up a routine for him, preferably not near dd during her most "thinking hard" subjects may be a good idea.

She really has missed doing some of the work from the guide such as the DITHOR kickoff, some parts of the DITHOR discussions, the complete Storytime/follow-ups, dictation/spelling, some of the science, and just doing her best to complete notebooking/lab pages. I know it's been a short time between your other posts so not much can have been tried yet, but have you had a chance to try anything suggested in these other posts?
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I know many others have gone through homeschooling before for awhile, deciding not to and doing ps for awhile, and then trying it again - and I can imagine this is hard. I bet you are feeling some pressure here (maybe from dh) to have everything go very well. I feel that way with my dh sometimes, though I don't think he means to make me feel that way. Your dd's attitude has really been up and down, and if that is as wearing on you as it is on me when my ds is like that, I know you must feel so tired. I'm sorry for that! But, I try to remind myself that at least by homeschooling, we can try to make a real dent in attitude and learning behaviors as we are so motivated to try to help our dc with them because we know we'll be their teachers year after year. It's okay for dc not to love every part of school, just like it's okay for us not to love every part of being their teacher - in fact, it's logical to think they/we won't love it all. However, it's not okay for habits of poor attitude, incomplete work, and sibling bickering to take hold. These are all things to guard against, and I'm pretty sure every homeschool mom has had to deal with them all over time. So, from personal experience, I would really try to nip that in the bud. Words like "bored" aren't allowed at our house, and I doubt she'd be allowed to say that to her teacher if she were in ps. My mother used to say, "Boredom is a choice - if you are bored, you can clean the bathroom" (we were not bored often ). Negative comments or poor work attitudes get a time-out during our school day. Honestly, sometimes we just need a break from each other. If our dc come back after the time out with a surly attitude still, it's right back to timeout . If it continues, privileges get taken away. I know if our dc were in ps and the teacher said they were complaining, saying they were bored, or were pestering other classmates, we'd give consequences too. So, this is just a natural result for those unacceptable behaviors. Also, "boredom" can often mean "I don't feel like working". If a child is turning out beautiful work, going above and beyond on discussions, completing detailed lab reports, lovely timelines, 3 detailed vocabulary cards, etc. and claiming "boredom", I'd still give a consequence for saying that word, but I'd consider perhaps adding extensions or look at placement again. However, that's not the case.

You had a really good start with dd, and she really did enjoy it, so I think she is probably adequately placed in Bigger Hearts as a core, but could need to move up on some LA/math type things, though I'd definitely try at least 1 dictation passage and give the Singapore placement test to see for sure. I also think she should be doing 3 vocabulary cards, detailed notebooking pages, all the discussion questions, and the other things that were mentioned previously in this thread and on the previous "Beefing up" thread before considering PHFHG. I am praying for you as you sort through this, but I really do think by trial and error of the many good ideas you've gotten here to do with her, you'll find her fit. May God lift you up as you find your way for homeschooling your dc in a Christian way!

In Christ,
Julie

my3sons wrote: Reflection is such a good thing as it paints the fullest picture of what's going on with our dc. So, going back to the start of Bigger Hearts for your dd, I remember she had great praise for it... (I remember because I loved your post ):
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She still loves it:) I think she doesn't want to take time to do some of the work. I get really worn down by her poor attitude.
Then, we talked about beefing it up here, but PHFHG seemed too difficult yet...
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I went back to this thread and just read your response. I didn't even know it was there We did 3 vocab cards today and will continue to do so. We talked about taking time to do her best with notebooking, handwriting etc. Her map of Columbus' route was awful! I know she wouldn't have turned in work to her teacher like that last year-and told her so. I read about the kickoff in DITHOR and as I mentioned we didn't do it. I assumed it was for only the beginning of DITHOR. Do you do it with every genre? I guess we need to spend more time on narration. I asked Carrie for some guidelines above. I'm not sure exactly what to expect from her. It seems like she is following the guidelines correctly.
Now, she seems to be fluctuating from a 2 - 2.5 hours max complaining of "boredom" (a word that sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard to me ) to taking until 2 PM to do 3 subject of school now...
Boredom should be considered a profane word Today took so long because I just couldn't cope with her attitude. I had to take breaks just to make it through.

Do you think that could have thrown her off on the 2PM day? Not sure. We did start in the morning, but as I mentioned above, her attitude was so hard for me to deal with today, I had to walk away. We all have off days, but do you usually have a routine order of doing the boxes for her each day? I do not have an order. I usually let her pick. My reason for doing so, was that in the last curriculum we used I followed the grid and checked off things as we went. It was a major point of contention. I thought that by letting her choose it would make it easier on the both of us. In fact, I do this with my DS too. If not, I'd really encourage you to give that a try with her. This is huge in helping my ds' maintain a steady "emotional" attitude for the day. Even if the start time can't be exactly the same, just having a routine order of doing the boxes would be good. I am horrible about routine-one of my biggest downfalls. Many children thrive off routine because they need to know what to expect. I def. think whether it's routine of the subjects or the routine of the day, w/o one my kids are lost. I posted another thread about activities for my kids when they are not schooling. I could really use some good ideas because of our circumstances and their ages.


She really has missed doing some of the work from the guide such as the DITHOR kickoff, some parts of the DITHOR discussions, the complete Storytime/follow-ups, dictation/spelling, some of the science, and just doing her best to complete notebooking/lab pages. I know it's been a short time between your other posts so not much can have been tried yet, but have you had a chance to try anything suggested in these other posts?
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See above

It's okay for dc not to love every part of school, just like it's okay for us not to love every part of being their teacher - in fact, it's logical to think they/we won't love it all. This is probably going to sound dumb, but I just figured it was going to be this Kodak moment everyday and we would all LOVE everything. In fact, I was thinking tonite that maybe I wasn't meant to teach my kids because I don't LOVE it all the time. Heavens, we're only on Unit 2

However, it's not okay for habits of poor attitude, incomplete work, and sibling bickering to take hold. These are all things to guard against, and I'm pretty sure every homeschool mom has had to deal with them all over time. So, from personal experience, I would really try to nip that in the bud. Words like "bored" aren't allowed at our house, and I doubt she'd be allowed to say that to her teacher if she were in ps. My mother used to say, "Boredom is a choice - if you are bored, you can clean the bathroom" (we were not bored often ). Negative comments or poor work attitudes get a time-out during our school day. Honestly, sometimes we just need a break from each other. If our dc come back after the time out with a surly attitude still, it's right back to timeout . If it continues, privileges get taken away. I'm going to have to come up with something and be diligent about it. (Another one of my downfalls).

I know if our dc were in ps and the teacher said they were complaining, saying they were bored, or were pestering other classmates, we'd give consequences too. AMEN! I was telling DD this today.

Also, "boredom" can often mean "I don't feel like working". If a child is turning out beautiful work, going above and beyond on discussions, completing detailed lab reports, lovely timelines, 3 detailed vocabulary cards, etc. and claiming "boredom", I'd still give a consequence for saying that word, but I'd consider perhaps adding extensions or look at placement again. However, that's not the case.
This is fabulous advice! I love what your mama said And I def. think her boredom means "I don't want to work." This nearly has me jumping for joy because I didn't realize this!!

Try at least 1 dictation passage We have done 2 of them with no problems whatsoever. Am I supposed to do one per unit? Or just keep going until she makes mistakes? and give the Singapore placement test to see for sure.We did the placement test. She places in level 2. I guess we will view this time as a review period before she starts learning new skills..



In Christ,
Julie

Thanks Julie

Marcee,

I just had to smile when I read how you thought it would be a Kodak moment homeschooling. I think we all think that way at one time or another. I love closing my eyes and imagining that perfect environment with those perfect kids. I do that sometimes just to stay sane. I love reading Pocketful of Pinecones and Blackberry Inn too to imagine what it could be like in a more perfect world. Everyday and every situation has it own challenges. I read your other post and your blog and it sounds like you have had your own special challenges recently. Homeschooling is a not a walk in the park, but it is so rewarding and worthwhile in the long run. Hang in there! Hugs!

Marcee,
Just wanted to say that I have been reading some of your posts and I am going to pray for your situation. Hang in there! We too are living in a small space and although I am schooling only one for now, it is a challenge to keep the 3yo and 17mo old busy long enough to get it done. We almost always have to wait until nap time, which is usually not a big deal, but I sometimes wish I had a better routine. I am so not good at that either...very fly by the seat of our pants.

I hope it gets better for you. Take care!

Hi Marcee. I haven't had anything to say before, but I have been reading your posts and I can relate to some of what you've been struggling with. My dd is not saying she is bored but we have had some attitude issues. Anyway, I just wanted to encourage you. When I read this

It's okay for dc not to love every part of school, just like it's okay for us not to love every part of being their teacher - in fact, it's logical to think they/we won't love it all. This is probably going to sound dumb, but I just figured it was going to be this Kodak moment everyday and we wold all LOVE everything. In fact, I was thinking tonite that may I wasn't meant to teach my kids because I don't LOVE it all the time. Heavens, we're only on Unit 2

I thought "Boy, have I been there!" I think we all want to have it be that way, but reality is life just isn't. Homeschooling takes effort and it's hard. We do have some days where everyone loves what they're doing, but we also have many where we struggle with attitudes (Mom's and dc's!). I do not always love teaching my children nor do they always take my instruction the way that I think they should. We have had the conversation here about the difference in how they treat me and how they treat 'teachers'. It's a work in progress. I am constantly sharing with them what the bible says about obedience, cheerfulness, working as if for the Lord, etc. However, it is a daily thing and I have to remind myself of the same. Satan wants to tear down your home, he wants to break down communication, make you weary and tired, he wants you to give up and put your dc back in school. DO NOT GIVE UP....DO NOT LET HIM WIN. There is rest for the weary in Jesus....He tells us his yoke is easy and His burden is light. Trust in that. Slow down if you need to to work on the attitude, to add to areas where needed, to instruct your dc in what is expected. My husband does not travel so much now, but for a time he was and I know how tough it is. It can feel as if you're a single parent! Allow yourself the freedom to have some breaks. I agree with pp's....try to plan activities for your dc to be working on when you are working with their sibling. You could use a computer program or even a free web site for learning games, arts and craft projects that are easy for dc to do alone (lots of books at the library for this), a snack time may work, things such as handwriting or copy work could be done during that time as well. Or just have that child play quietly (hard, I know), draw or read. And I do think it is necessary to make sure your dc do understand you are the authority and school work is not optional. We are working on this (again) now, as my dc have decided they'd like to test me on it. It is not easy, but I know for us this is the path God wants us to follow....He will help me and He will help you on the journey. And by the way, you are the BEST teacher for your children. Who else is going to love them and have their best interests at heart? God gave you your dc. I just spoke with mine about this today....telling them that God thought their Dad and I would be the best parents for them, and that even if they didn't agree (or if we even question that sometimes!) that God expects them to be obedient and submit to our authority, because ultimately that means they are submitting to His authority.

I hope some of this has helped. I'll keep you in prayer for this.....I would say give it more time and try to really focus in on those changes that need to be made, both academically and with character. I think you'll see real success.

I feel like this post came across with a negative tone towards HOD. I apologize if that is the case. My frustration lies only in my situation: Being new to H'schooling, not understanding how do do everything correctly with my manuals, having hard days, dealing with interruptions, bad attitudes and fighting. I thought teaching was going to be the hard part. Instead it's being the teacher/mother and dealing with my kids. Another part of my frustration lies in the fact that I don't have all the things I need to do all of the activities fully. At this point, I don't have the ability to buy them either-so it is what it is until I can. I by no means think that HOD is causing these issues! God lead me to HOD and I know this is where he wants my children.


Have I driven everyone crazy with all of my posts about DD and BHFHG? Because looking back, I sure seem like I'm crazy-up, down, up, down.
I know I could google everything I am asking here. I ask here because this is where the HOD family is and I feel it's the best place to get the best answers. I also don't have a H'school support group or know anyone where we live as we have only been here 3 months. So, I'm sorry if I overwhelm the board with too many threads It seems by doing this I may have come across as unappreciative of all the time an effort you ladies take to respond to my never ending questions. That was def. not my intention. I am so appreciative of you ladies for all of your responses and advice. I know it takes a lot of thought and time to do this. I would be lost w/o it!

In sisterly love,
M~

Marcee wrote:I feel like this post came across with a negative tone towards HOD. I apologize if that is the case. My frustration lies only in my situation: Being new to H'schooling, not understanding how do do everything correctly with my manuals, having hard days, dealing with interruptions, bad attitudes and fighting. I thought teaching was going to be the hard part. Instead it's being the teacher/mother and dealing with my kids. Another part of my frustration lies in the fact that I don't have all the things I need to do all of the activities fully. At this point, I don't have the ability to buy them either-so it is what it is until I can. I by no means think that HOD is causing these issues! God lead me to HOD and I know this is where he wants my children.


Have I driven everyone crazy with all of my posts about DD and BHFHG? Because looking back, I sure seem like I'm crazy-up, down, up, down.
I know I could google everything I am asking here. I ask here because this is where the HOD family is and I feel it's the best place to get the best answers. I also don't have a H'school support group or know anyone where we live as we have only been here 3 months. So, I'm sorry if I overwhelm the board with too many threads It seems by doing this I may have come across as unappreciative of all the time an effort you ladies take to respond to my never ending questions. That was def. not my intention. I am so appreciative of you ladies for all of your responses and advice. I know it takes a lot of thought and time to do this. I would be lost w/o it!

In sisterly love,
M~

Thanks for this, Marcee! I am thinking through what you said here, and I appreciate it so very much. I kind of did feel like the posts were progressively negative toward HOD, but thinking back I think it was more because of the titles of the many posts in a row I kept seeing each day arising. It seemed like there were a bunch of great responses to the first post, but that before getting to sort through them you were firing another question, but I get by your very gracious responses to these last posts that it was totally stemming from frustration and a tough situation. I have felt frustrated before too, and sometimes I just can hardly think straight to consider solutions offered (especially if I'm having to take suggestions from someone I really love or respect, and I just don't want to hear what they have to say because it is hard to hear).

Usually if I take some time to pray, and give the advice some real thought over a few days, I can calm down enough to see the wisdom of at least part of the advice and take some real time to give it a whirl. How I respect ladies that can do so sooner than that - but it's a struggle for me! I think you just were in that limbo stage I get in sometimes, where you were hearing some advice, but not "really" hearing it yet, and rather than focusing on the advice already given, you were on to just posting another frustration. That is why it really helped me to go back and read all of your threads in a row before posting this last time, so I could think back alongside you to try to really help taking emotion out of it (if you know me at all, you'll know that's hard for me, as I am an emotional gal! ).

Anyway, I think this all turned out just fine! You got some great advice, you have many wonderful things to try, you have a plan now, and you still have an awesome HOD support system here! No worries. Maybe just slowing down and keeping things on one post for awhile would help keep my head from spinning, but that's probably a "Julie-trait". Hey, it's Friday - hooray! Take a bubble bath, and hit it hard on Monday again! A bubble bath and a new week always do wonders for me... probably because church is sandwiched between, and I really do need that to refuel. Have a good weekend!!!

In Christ,
Julie