Bad attitudes, complaining, arguing, etc...

[psreit]

Sue,
I didn't catch that about the Spanish until it was mentioned in the last post. I agree that you should not worry about starting Spanish. I am also from PA and, from experience in hs my older three, I know that, unless the child is in high school working for credits, those extras are not necessary. If you have a school district telling you otherwise, they are wrong. I think, even for the 12yo, if you are doing a complete HOD guide, you should be fine. Maybe adding PE would be good, but don't burden yourself with more academics. If you have any questions about PA's laws, don't hesitate to ask. I, too, would do as the pp said. Concentrate on the character issues. I am only hs one and that's what I have been doing, because my dd7 needs it as well.•

Edit: Here are Required Subjects for PA:
1. Elementary level (Grades 1-6): English, to include spelling, reading, and writing; arithmetic; history of Pennsylvania and United States; civics; health and physiology; physical education; music; art; geography; science; and safety education, including regular and continuous instruction in the danger and prevention of fires.
2. Secondary level (Grades 7-12): English, to include language, literature, speech and composition; science, geography; social studies, to include civics, world history, history of the United States and Pennsylvania; mathematics, to include general mathematics, algebra and geometry; art; music; physical education; health; and safety education, including regular and continuous instruction in the dangers and prevention of fires. (§ 13-1327.1(c)(1)-(2))

Other than PE and maybe health and safety education, I would think Carrie covers pretty well everything else in her guides. And these 'extras' do not need to be covered every day. You could just have them read a book that would deal with health or safety in certain areas and count that for the year. One year, my fire safety was fulfilled when we went camping and the children were learning campfire safety, just by camping, no book. I just said in my portfolio that they learned campfire safety while camping. My dd(21) was born with spina bifida and what I would count for health with her was teaching her how to care for herself physically because of her special needs. My ds and dd(21) got safety education one year by taking a hunter's safety course. There are many ways these can be fulfilled that take little time. No specific amount of time is needed to cover these areas or any other subjects. This is why I am excited about using HOD. By completing LHFHG in a year, that gives us 170 days. If the other guides are that many days, you could take the other 10 to do health and safety. We don't need to worry about how we can complete 180 days.

Sorry for getting on this subject. I wasn't sure how you were fulfilling the requirements. I was just hoping something I said would possibly help ease some of your load. But, I am absolutely sure you don't need Spanish right now. HTH

[Marcee]

I was on someone's blog today and noticed that they use the book 'For Instruction in Righteousness'. I looked into it and plan to get a copy. It gives ideas for discipline, rewards and encouragement, along with Scripture referring to particular behaviors,etc. It looks like it would be very helpful. Praying for your family.

[lmercon]

Sue,
First, I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time right now, but you can overcome this through prayer and action. You've gotten a lot of really great advice, so I won't add any of my own thoughts along those lines. Instead, I'd like to sound a little tough. I hope you don't take any offense by my tone. I really think that before any change takes place, you and your dh have to get on the same page. One statement you made in your original post really blared at me. You said something about your dh second-guessing your punishment presumably in front of the kids. That's death! The kids know all the buttons to push with you and know that Dad isn't going to really stand up to them. Now I know I'm making some huge assumptions, but the way you describe the behavior of your children leads me to believe that they don't have a lot of "fear" when it comes to their father. I believe that in some ways the father of a family is to model our Father God in instilling right fear of him when they sin. I think you need to have a sit-down with your dh and calmly describe your children's behaviors and attitudes. Ask him to gain back their respect and "fear" of him. It would be great if he could pull each boy aside and have a man-to-man "talk" that might go something like this (in a fierce enough tone to get their attention):
"Son, I love you and want the very best for you, but if I EVER come home and learn that you have disrespected and mistreated God's child, my bride, and your mother again, only one of us is walking out of here, at least with a smile on our face. I WILL be getting a daily report of your behavior and attitude when I get home, and you had better make sure we don't ever have to have this talk again"

Given in love,
Laura

[Marcee]

I was on someone's blog today and noticed that they use the book 'For Instruction in Righteousness'. I looked into it and plan to get a copy. It gives ideas for discipline, rewards and encouragement, along with Scripture referring to particular behaviors,etc. It looks like it would be very helpful. Praying for your family.

Thanks for bringing up this book!I just dug thru the garage to find my copy from a few years ago. I'm going to need it

This book includes: general info and commandments about the sin, What happens or should happen to the sinner (based on Bible verses), what the sin is likened to in scripture, the blessings for those who resist, Bible stories that illustrate the consequences of practicing the sin or resisting it, and memory verse.

[Marcee]

Creative Correction by Lisa Whelchel is a really good book too.

[Marcee]

Sue,
First I'm praying for you. What about something like the If and Then Chart, this way the consequences will be clearly started for them and for you and it will require you to expend a lot less energy thinking of what the consequences should be. Also may I suggest Ginger Plowman's Don't Make Me Count to Three and her Wise Words for Mom.

Thanks for these! I have put Don't make me count to three on hold at the library, and am buying a chart set from Doorposts:) The set includes If-Then Chart, the Blessing Chart, the Brother Offended Checklist, (with book) and the Go-to-the-Ant Chart.

[Sue G in PA]

More great advice...thank you all. I'm looking into the books and If...Then chart (I had that copied once on my computer). I have Creative Correction...will re-read in my leisure (what's that, right? ) Laura, I am not offended in the least. I've had this conversation with my dh many, many times. The dc do fear him...when he loses his temper b/c he's been pushed too far and starts yelling and looking like some demon possessed. Trust me...big time issue in our marriage. In his defense, he never had a good role-model in the parenting dept...neither did I. Both our sets of parents parented by yelling, physical punishment (which would be considered abuse by today's standards), fear, etc. This is the reason we do not spank and won't. I told dh last night that he needed to talk to the boys and that HE needed to tell them that HE wouldn't tolerate them disrespecting me. We'll see if that happens. We will have a discussion this afternoon about family rules and consequences. Today has gone better so perhaps dh did say something to the boys last night at bedtime.

As for Spanish...dd13 will be taking it b/c she is in high school and ds12 will as well b/c 1. he asked to and 2. I'd like him to start early. But we'll take it slow. That is good advice.

[3xblessed]

Just wanted to encourage you! It's no fun having those kind of days. I'll be praying that all these wonderful suggestions will help yours and my school days run even smoother

The only comment I can make is what I read on a blog one day. This mom had about 5 children that she HS'ed also and I believe they all sat at a kitchen table to do school work. The mom would sit at the head of the table and there would be 1 empty seat beside her. Whoever needed help could come sit in the chair and the mom would work with that child only. Don't know if that will help you any, but wanted to share it.

[countrymom]

I don't have time to read all the responses you have received so far. Here are some things we do. First, we lay down expectations and then consistently enforce them, even if nothing else gets done all day.
We use the five finger system. 1) yes mommy (daddy) 2) I'll obey 3) right away 4) all the way 5) in the happy way. This is our expectation for obedience. When we don't get it we talk about what fingers are missing and give a consequence. We do require our boys to respond with a "yes mommy" or "yes daddy" when we call their name. Then we give a direction and expect the same.
Our boys can only say why in the following way, "May I ask why?" (in a nice voice) We will then choose if we will give them a reason, sometimes it is just "because mommy says."
Whining, fussing, complaining is not allowed and receives a consequence after a quick reminder.
We bring them to Jesus and share with them that they can do ____, Jesus will help them. We remind them they must choose to listen to Jesus or listen to Satan. We give them an opportunity to choose and give a consequence for a poor choice. We pray with them when something has gone wrong. These are the first tips that come to mind. Is it always easy? No, but I can say although we are constantly working on character traits,e do have their respect.
Of course the most important thing is we pray for our children constantly. I can tell you are beat down, I will be praying for you. I was at a seminar at the midwest HS conference this year and the speaker talked about sitting down with your children and telling them we are starting over today. Lay down expectations, rules, talk about why they are important. I guess the point is it is never too late to change course.

[Tree House Academy]

I am so sorry Sue! I can imagine the frustration. I have two boys and I know what a handful they can be...I can't imagine 7 kids with 4 of those being BOYS! And all so close in age too. Mine are 11 and 7 and the fighting, name calling, etc. starts to happen on a daily basis here. I feel like all I do is yell "STOP!" - but I am able to seperate them and that helps. With two, that is easy to do...with 4, I can see how it might not be! *HUGE HUGS* to you right now! I am praying for God to help you with this!