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Sorry, I ran out of room.

What I do is go over the independent items with him, to make sure he understands what he is supposed to do. I'll have to admit, even I had to go through the steps of unit 1's flapbook to understand what you were talking about. Maybe I'm a visual learner, but I had to do an example to make sure I knew what I was doing.

No, we haven't done Preparing.

We have done lots of other things though, this is just my fun loving, takes his time on everything, distracted if he isn't at the table by himself, guy. He'll have to drop his pencil a few times, take a sip of tea a few times, think about something totally unrelated to school, and play with the dog...all while he has math sitting in front of him. He does not seem to grasp the concept of....get your work done and then you are free. He's just different; he's funny, mature in so many ways, silly in so many ways, etc.

I'm trying to remind him to not look up after each and every problem(yes, he does this every time) he writes and go to the next problem....

Now his 9 yr old sister on the other hand, is Speedy Gonzales when it comes to school work.I'll have no problem with her getting CTC done on time...she will, however, have a small come-a-part if she doesnt' immediately understand something .

Anyway, I knew coming into CTC that I'd have to help my son through the directions to make sure he followed through with them. I'm actually looking forward to him paying more attention to details and getting something out of just following the manual. In all ways but this, he is clearly ready for all that CTC has to offer. He really enjoys all the reading assignments he's had, and he's also loving Carry on Mr. Bowditch.

Oh, nice schedules.

We just started our second week of CTC and honestly, last week was a breeze. Yesterday, my ds11, however, finished school at 9:45PM! Yes, PM. It was a tough day, but it was not CTC's fault. In all honesty, it was CLE math. My son spent 2 hours on one lesson. Then, he lost confidence as my Beyond child was finished with school before he even started his CTC work. Ahh...and that was the day I decided to switch to Life of Fred Fractions and give my ds a break! LOL He is a math whiz and CLE was just making him hate life (length of the lessons, mostly...and repetition of the same problems over and over and over). (Disclaimer: CLE is a good math program and my ds learned a ton with it. He is ready to start pre-algebra after just finishing 5th grade CLE.)

Rebecca, I feel your pain. yesterday, we did not do the painting, something in the Bible study that escapes my brain right now, and the track book. We quit at 3:30, because I was done. Can't imagine going until night...but I understand. These personalities and moods definitely change the flow of our day.

I have once again resolved to use a timer with my son's math...limiting lessons to 30 minutes. However, I have to stay near his side to keep him focused on what he is doing. Right now we're having frustration over copying in his history... I'm frustrating him, but I'm still going to erase his work and get him to try again when his writing isn't that good. He hates to copy something from one book to another...who knew that was a learned skill, lol. I think it should be easy, but it isn't for him. So something that probably should have been 10 to 15 minutes is taking over 30.

Alison

Do you think he'd be better placed in PHFHG? That has less writing, and is still a full program. Otherwise, do you think half-speed CTC would be better for awhile, until he does get used to using the manual more independently? PHFHG really did help my ds use the manual more independently, so much so that by the time he did CTC last year, he could just use the manual as his own. I wonder if the handwriting battle just isn't worth it right now? Maybe you could decide an appropriate amount of quality writing to have him do, and let more go on the rest. I think my ds would be incredibly discouraged to have to redo writing, so much so that he would drag his feet through it purposely. That has to add time to the day too - which is not great from a mama's perspective either. I wonder too if piano could be put a different time of day? I really would either drop all of the extra things you've added in, or move them to be done later in the day, so you can gauge how long CTC alone takes, and see if your ds is too challenged by it and needing PHFHG instead. Before I delved into the time increments and the order of things, I thought I'd love to get your opinion on these things and then brainstorm more here. Also, it is just the first week m'dear. I want to encourage you the speed usually picks up as you go. With him not having done PHFHG yet, I can imagine CTC being a lot. It is a very meaty program, as evidenced by some ladies on this board doing it for high school (with additional LA/math). Hope something here helps!

In Christ,
Julie

Alison,

After I posted, I see that my3sons and I were typing at the same time with a similar thought.

Thanks so much for typing that all out! Although, I must admit that the "I'm feeling your pain" statement was a toughie for me to hear when discussing CTC. It is a guide that is after all near and dear to my heart.

I can see from your schedule some key areas that are resulting in your day going too long. I'll preface my post below by saying that it is going to specifically address how to make CTC fit into the time allotment that we recommend. So, while your priorities may differ from this, and I can understand families differing in goals, my recommendations below are coming from the fact that my purpose is pointing out ways to make CTC work well, so you finish in a timely fashion each day.

From that standpoint, I'm seeing 3 of the first 5 items on your schedule are not related to HOD. In all honesty, I would move the non-HOD items to last in your day as your HOD program is actually covering those areas (with the exception of piano). I realize that your math is necessary to keep , but I'd make sure to keep the time down to whatever you consider to be reasonable so it doesn't add time to your day. If you look at your schedule out of the first 90 min. of your day, only 20-50 of it (if you count your own math) is related to HOD. I'd shift that so that your son starts with the Bible Quiet Time and then heads into one or two other HOD subjects that he can get done reasonably on time. I'd partner with him and make sure he starts out and ends on time with those first subjects. You may feel entirely different and look at HOD as less of a priority than the other areas you've scheduled first in your day which is fine too. But, it's good to note then that the other priorities are playing a role in your day going long rather than it all being related to CTC. By changing these opening things, you could have 3 or more HOD subjects done in the opening 90 min. of your day.

When you get to the next subject line number 7, I notice the addition of typing, which is fine, but again will add time to your day. So, I'd likely move that to last in the day away from your other HOD subjects. With number 8, in alternating Rod and Staff and WWTB that time slot will be 20 minutes each day (doing either Rod and Staff or WWTB but not both each day). You're likely doing it that way, but I just wanted to clarify in case. Dictation is around 5 min. or so three times weekly. So, rather than having an hour of language arts all back to back daily, with Reading Dectective instead of DITHR, you could again move Reading Detective later in your day as it is an independent subject that doesn't require you and is not a part of HOD. That would take that time slot back to 25 min. and allow you to add one of the HOD subjects there that right now is scheduled after lunch. It's also important to note that DITHR is scheduled 3 times weekly as is dictation, so if you're doing Reading Detective or dictation more often than that, your day will go longer.

In subject line number 8, I'm not sure what poetry copywork is because in CTC there's only one short stanza to be copied once a week and the other days are painting and sharing the poem aloud. Perhaps that is what you meant? I wouldn't add additional poetry copywork if you happen to be doing so, but would instead just do what's in the guide for poetry. I'm also stumped as to why your little guy is reading the storytime books to himself? Those were chosen to be read aloud, and if you are already doing a read-aloud with another HOD program, you would skip the storytime in CTC. But the books weren't meant for the child to read on his/her own. So taking that out of his day will help quite a bit time-wise. Were you thinking to use these with DITHR?

The science and history project are written to the student with science meant to be completed independently. So, he shouldn't need you to do those things along with him. I would definitely not leave those for you to do with him after lunch but hopefully these could instead be done on your son's own without you after lunch or earlier in the day?

Last, the narrations are meant to be done right after the readings. So, the written narration should be done right after the history reading. The oral narrations are the same. This is because it is so tough for a kiddo to narrate after lunch on what they read way back in the morning. Unless you're adding more written narration that should only come up once a week in CTC and extra time is allotted for it on that day in CTC by not having a history project that day. So, while it may take a bit to do written narration on that one day, it shouldn't be affecting your whole week.

From all that you've shared on this thread, I'm wondering if your son fits better in Preparing Hearts? I'm thinking that you're having to do so much with him in so many areas that you're using the CTC guide in a much different way than it was intended to be used. You'll know your child best, but I really want him to be successful, and I feel that there are so many skills from Preparing Hearts that he is missing that would really help him with CTC. I am also concerned that there is no way he will be able to be successful in CTC, much less the future HOD guides without that needed foundation. Perhaps, with some changes to the schedule he'll settle in just fine to CTC. Only you can know how much you're having to help him. Another option would be to downshift into doing CTC at half-speed each day, taking more than a year to complete it. This is a better option than skipping things, which will only cause problems once you get to the rigor of RTR.

If you should desire to back up to Preparing Hearts, you can return any books that are unused in exchange for what you need for Preparing Hearts. There's so much more to CTC than being able to handle the reading material and the skills are necessary to complete the activities. Correct placement in HOD makes all the difference in the world in your day! I want your day to go well which is why I'm brainstorming all of these options with you. Hopefully, something in here will help as you ponder.

Blessings,
Carrie

I just had a thought too, after reading Carrie's post - maybe you could just do CTC, with absolutely no extras for a month and see how it goes? A month won't hurt anything. You could put anything extra you wanted to keep on the fifth day, and piano could be practiced after school is done. That may be a great way to see if ds is able to grow into CTC? You could focus just on that, on starting your day the same time, on doing the guide in a routine order, and just seeing if ds rises to the occasion? If he could grow into completing it more quickly, more closely to the time alloted, I think he'd be very motivated to do so every day. I know my ds is motivated by that. I liked your idea of making sure to do the math timer for ds too. Or, are you leaning toward PHFHG? Just thinking out loud with you here and trying to help.

In Christ,
Julie

Hi Ladies,

I don't have time to answer everything, I just wanted to make a few comments.

First, Carrie, I am sorry if my wording was inappropriate here. I really was saying it with a grin.

Next, I guess I'm not seeing how the math is considered an extra, even though it isn't Singapore, isn't math considered part of the program? I thought 30 minutes was assigned to that block, no matter which math is being used.

My extras take maybe 15 minutes total. I'm talking about the typing, handwriting (which I think he really does need, but it's HWT, so it isn't a lot), and the wee bit of The Sentence Family (took 2 minutes this morning) or memorization I plan on doing.

I tried to keep up with our times a bit today and I may have figured out a few things to re-arrange...my girls actually went longer on a few blocks than my son did. He did get hung up copying between his book and the student notebook. Most of his life he has copied from something that was on the same page . I had no idea he would struggle with going back and forth between the TM and his student notebook while copying...but I'm sure he'll get the hang of it. He also really struggled with the 3rd day of WWTB...finding the adjectives, adverbs, nouns, and verbs. I did not expect perfection at all...but I just think he felt overwhelmed. I thought that particular exercise was pretty challenging for him, he's used to finding that info. out of sentences...one at a time, and seeing the long paragraphs threw him a bit.

Anyway, our bigger hang ups came with copying and WWTB. However, on the plus side, we did finish at 2:45...that's our earliest yet. I'll just have to set my timer on WWTB, to make sure we quit at a reasonable time. Between him working on today's lesson, and our regular interruptions, I think it took an hour.

So, progress was made . Yeah us. It was one of those days where I just felt like God was giving me something extra...to be patient and positive during all of our school.

Thank you for the prayers.

Carrie, I'm looking back through your comments and trying to remember them. I use the English section as is, except when it says DITHOR, I substitute in Reading Detective. I think our first two days of WWTB went really short, but today's lesson went way longer than 20 minutes. I might just have to set a timer on that part. I also think our Rod and Staff is going longer than 20 minutes, but I havent' timed it. Do you suggest following along with RS and doing all of the written work? I had my son do some of it oral, but he also wrote quite a bit of it.

In poetry copywork, it is just that first day of copying.

I did buy the boy interest set, however, I chose to have my son read it to himself. I'm already reading aloud with something to the girls...and obviously, my days are already long, so I thought this would be good for him, plus save time. Is there any reason he should not be reading this to himself, instead of my reading it out loud (well, except for the obvious fact that we won't be able to snuggle and read together)? I thought the books looked good, and I liked the fact that it would cover a wide variety of literature. He reads other books at night, for fun. FWIW, he's really enjoying the book.

Alison

Alison,

I'm greatly encouraged by your recent post and am so glad that you had a chance to update. I also am a bit frustrated, as I lost a very long post that I typed to answer your questions a bit ago!

You are right that math is math no matter which program you use, and I actually updated my post twice today to reflect that and lost it both times! So, for any of you who experienced problems with the board today, we are looking into the matter and I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience it may have caused you!

If you are finding that your extras are taking very little extra time, then by all means keep them. The only reason I mentioned them is that I hate to see your day going too long and you being discouraged by that. So, typically when days run long, I advise stream-lining.

I also agree that the grammar hunt in WWTB can go on and on. I had to allow myself not to make my kiddos find every answer, even though it told me this in WWTB! I tend to be a "more is more" type of gal when it comes to following directions. But sometimes, more is just more, not necessarily better!

For Rod and Staff we usually do much orally or on a whiteboard. If my kiddos can tell me the answer we go that route. Then, I assign one small portion to be done on paper. There is plenty of writing within CTC, so I feel alright doing the grammar this way.

I also agree that copying from one place to another is a skill that is much tougher than it looks. It requires a child to track from one place to another, and back again, and also requires holding the image in one's mind from one place to reproduce in another. Blessedly, this is also a skill that does develop and improve over time, and you can expect you son to get better at it as time passes. It is also an important skill as kiddos will be required to take notes from text to page or powerpoint to page in many instances in life.

As far as the Storytime books go, I'll just mention that some of the books are pretty tough reading level wise (as we were selecting books for that set based on a parent's reading level rather than a child's). Depending on which set you're using, there are also topics within some of the books that are more mature and may be tough on a sensitive reader, plus the set adds time to your son's day. If you are using one of the sets with DITHR, then that would make sense to have your son reading them, but then you wouldn't need the Reading Detective, as DITHR covers those skills. With that in mind, you'll have to weigh whether your son is a strong enough reader, is mature enough to handle the books, is sensitive, or whether his day is going too long before deciding what route is best for you to go with those books. You'll know best here. I was again coming from the standpoint that your day and your son's day were both too long and working to find the areas that could be causing that.

Last, I will say that our days went longer with CTC in the beginning and then really scaled back, so it could be that you are headed in that direction. If so, you'll continue to see steady progress forward each day and within a month your son will have changed much in the level of independence and work habits he's exhibiting. You'll definitely be able to tell if you're in the right program by how long your days run.

I appreciate your update and the opportunity to brainstorm possible solutions and things to check to help you make CTC work for you. Often, it's the dialoguing that helps me most. Hopefully, it's helping you too!

Blessings,
Carrie

Well, darn, I thought when I bought the boy interest set it wouldn't have anything to rough...I was avoiding the history interest set for that reason. I also thought I had read somewhere that you could have your son read this to himself instead of reading it aloud. I figured as long as it was being read then it wouldn't matter who was reading it, but I guess your point is that I might be a faster reader in that block of time?

I do remember wavering on which to buy for this years reading, the DITHOR books or these and I thought I asked on here...hmm, I guess I just thought I had it figured out.

Do you happen to know which books are the toughest ones that have mature content?

He's really enjoying Carry on Mr. Bowditch, he looks forward to reading it every day.

Julie's idea to go half pace is a really good one, and if things don't greatly improve, or if we start to get too worn out, then I'll go to that.

Thanks again,

Alison

Well, I'm encouraged by this, which I know sounds very silly to say, but I was up all night with my middle ds who had a lot of trouble breathing (allergies) , and Alison you and your sweet son were on my mind all night. I have to say I feel inadequate at trying to help sometimes. I try to pray before answering posts every time, because the Lord knows I sure don't always have the answers. You finding your way to use HOD happily in your home matters a lot to me. I view HOD as a vehicle for moms and dc to come to know the Lord more and more, and that is the reason I am trying to help people here. I love the Lord, and I love Him being in homes every day with HOD. So, this was encouraging to hear progress has been made, albeit small, all progress is worth being celebrated and recognized. O.k., I must be overly tired and emotional as I'm getting all teared up here. I know that it can be tough homeschooling. It is a job, a noble one, a God-ordained one, a worthy one, one I do enjoy quite often... but still a job to be done. I pray that the Lord can help you know how best to do it, and if I can be of any help in any way, I will try!

Love in Christ,
Julie

Julie, and ((hugs)) to you.

Alison,

I wasn't sure which set you were having your son read, but see now that he's reading the Boy Interest Set. You're right that the Boy Set will be a safer read, but still is intended to either be read aloud by the parent or could also be read with DITHR so you can be discussing it with your son as you go. However, if you did use the Boy Set with DITHR, then you wouldn't need The Reading Detective, as they cover the same skills. So, while you can easily choose to use the Boy Interest books in a different way to suit your own family goals (and I'm so glad that your son is enjoying reading them), I'm again coming from the perspective that your day is too long and looking for overlaps that could save you time.

Within RTR, we did plan for the storytime to be either read by the parent or by the student, so you're likely thinking of that. We chose easier and shorter books for the Storytime in RTR with that in mind and also were taking into account that the kiddos were another year older and more used to independence.

It sounds like you are happy with your plan and should just stay the course. My only goal was to address your frustration and help you find ways to get your school day to a more reasonable length. It was also seeming like you were resigned to skipping parts of CTC for the long-term, and I wanted to help figure out how you could get some of these areas back into your day without making your day so long. Perhaps time alone or a bit of tweaking your other kiddos' schedule will make the needed difference.

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie,

I think she was "feeling my pain" on just the long day. Like I said, though, we are thoroughly enjoying CTC and it wasn't CTC at all that caused our disjoint that day...it was CLE math! But now, we are back in stride because we went to Life of Fred and it takes him just moments (I would have loved to do Singapore with him, but he is testing out of 6B, so I wasn't sure where to go from there!). I will have to share with everyone the painting my ds did today in CTC - oh it was just precious. I love it.

Allison,

You were asking about English with R&S and I really think it is up to you. When I know my ds "gets" it, we may do it all orally, do just the worksheet written, or do just a few from the book written. I really use my own judgement based on his understanding. I think it is more than fine to go that route.