heartofdakota.com

kidsforhim,

Thanks so much for your patience in hearing back from me! I have been entertaining scenarios similar to what Jennymommy shared. As I have been pondering your questions, I spent some time going back through board posts where you've mentioned this particular child simply to help me gain a better feel for what his needs might be.

First of all, I want to encourage you that you can continue on this homeschool path. We are here to partner together, help, encourage, guide, and direct. All of us need the Lord to complete this big calling, but we can do it together!

As we look at your oldest son, it will be important to set aside the history cycle for a bit and truly figure out where he places skill-wise overall within HOD. This is important because otherwise much of the guide will frustrate him, and you will be continually modifying/skipping/changing for him. While it is alright to do some of that type of thing, a day where every subject requires some tweaking soon becomes exhausting. We honestly want some parts of the guide to be easy for him, some to be right on, and others to push him. However, we don't want to push him so far or so fast in one year that frustration sets in daily. Some frustration is alright. Too much frustration is destructive.

With this in mind, we also definitely need to consider that your son has not had formal essay writing, outlining, report writing, or formal literature study up to this point. He has done some oral and written narrations, but it has been a few years since he has done that regularly. Our guides have quite a bit of writing in them, both through Rod and Staff English, through a formal writing program each year, and also in assingments scheduled throughout the guide that have students writing across the curriculum. There is also a pretty hefty reading schedule in each guide, so we need to keep that in mind as well.

In thinking through these areas, even if you chose to do a different writing/grammar/literature study, the writing and reading levels will still be a consideration in the other subjects scheduled within our guides. So, we must consider these areas. I want your son to be successful, and I want him to steadily progress forward in many different skill areas. So, I think it is important to meet him where he is. This brings up a few more questions that I have that will help fill in a few gaps I have in my picture of him. It would help so much to know if you have thoughts about what this child may do post-high school? This will make a big difference in our recommendations and planning.

Also, you have shared that your son is an avid reader. Is he currently earning credit in Literature? If so, how is he earning that credit? Is he reading real books, doing an anthology, doing a workbook style program? Or is he mainly reading for history and earning literature credit that way. The reason I ask is that it would help to know the level of literature he is comfortable reading as this will affect how successful he will be with varying levels of reading throughtout our guides. Could you share some book titles he is reading for history or literature this year that are going fine for him? Also, how much reading is he doing daily? Multiple pages/chapters for multiple subjects, or just a few subjects that require reading daily?

How about writing? Is he comfortable writing multiple times daily (a paragraph or more at a time) for multiple subjects or would this be a stretch? Is your oldest son an independent worker, able to follow lengthy written directions easily, or is this tough for him? Does his day stretch on before him, requiring a lighter load, or is he a motivated quick worker?

Next, you mentioned another son below this one. Is this child currently using HOD or something else? Are you considering including this child with your older son in HOD, or are you only considering combining them for science? How old is this next child in line?

If you get a chance to pop back with answers to these questions, it will help so much! I will work to get back to you in a timely fashion once I have a bit more information.

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie,

He's talked some of going to a local Technical school but no definite area of instruction at this point, or attending a small ( very small) church Bible Institute.

For Literature credit , he is reading books that tie in with his Ancient history studies. Here are some of the books he has read so far; Adam & His KIn, The Golden Goblet, Hittite Warrior, The Cat of Bubastes & God King. ( These books aren't really that much more difficult from what he read last year when he did MFW. I've just been at a total loss for lit. & was told that just reading 12 books for the year could count for credit.) Outside of school time he has read; Basher Five-two, THe Hobbit, & THe Lord of the Rings books, to name a few. I asked him how the Cat of Bubastes went & he said it wasn't as hard as he first thought it would be, but then he said he kind of skimmed over a few places that were a little boring( in other words, it was a bit hard to understand which led to boring)
But overall he found the book interesting.

In Biblioplan Ancient History. for Bible, he reads several chapters of the Bible in a day, i.e. wk 12, day1 Joshua 1-6. day 2 Judges 1-4, Deut. 7, Judges 6-8, Judges 13-16. He also read the book of Job over 6 wks or so. He reads several pages from Victory Journey through the Bible 2 - 3 days. one day a wk, a chapter from Holman Bible Atlas, this has been a bit harder & sometimes he just gleans from it what he can. It is optional. He reads from Biblioplan Companion text the 3 days scheduled about a page or two each day. In his science, he's reading as scheduled in Ctc, plus reading from the Abeka 10th gr Biology text, 2-4 pages a day. He reads daily in AutoUpkeep, an elective, except on test day.

His writing-I'm not sure. What he is doing in Ctc science seems to be a good amount & then he also has 3-4 essay questions he answers once a week in history. He's had a hard time with these at the beginning but now it is getting easier. These questions have required several sentence answers. He generally answers with 4-6 complex sentences.

He is independent, although in Math & English he does best with audio/visual approach. The directions in Ctc science have been good for him. At first he was a bit overwhelmed but I told him to take it slow & think about what it was saying. I worked through a few and it hasn't taken long for him to follow them step by step without getting frustrated/ impatient. The actual work seems simple, but learning to read those directions through has been a skill he was needing. He is enjoying the science and doesn't seem to think it's too easy, although sometimes I've thought maybe it was. I get the feeling still though that he would like something more challenging.

I wouldn't say he is a motivated ,quick worker, and I often have to go with a lighter load in his schooling. He CAN get done quick if there is a day where we have to interrupt school for Dr. appoint. etc. but he can't seem to keep up that pace all the time.

My second son is 13, will be 14 in May. He will be in 9th grade when we start new school year in the fall. He is not using anything HOD. I was considering putting him with my oldest for just the science as they both will need a Physical Science credit. He is independent, a motivated & quicker worker, has more patience reading through directions. He has tackled cookie recipes on his own! He has done simple computer programming in his free time. He can get weighted down with certain type curriculum specially workbook type.

I can get overwhelmed myself & this thinking about school stuff gets me almost physically sick to my stomach as well as bothers my head. I've had to take more a lighter load in school just as much for me as for my oldest, for mental & physical reasons. Had a Dr. all but say 6 years ago to quit homeschooling for health reasons, saying something would have to change. So they've had to be independent early on. But the kids, all 4, seem to prefer it that way for the most part. They've done very well, I've been proud of them.

So THANK YOU for taking of your time to help me! I'd appreciate true honesty in thought as to whether this is even a good way for us to go, for my own health, as well as would it work for my son.

Becky

Becky,

You have been so gracious and patient as we talk through possible options for your son. It helps me so much to gain a clearer picture before advising something too quickly that in the end would not truly be a good fit (simply because I didn't have enough facts to advise you well). So, I appreciate the time you've spent sharing about your son.

I agree with you that learning to read and follow lengthy written directions independently is a life skill, and when the skill is new the reading level and tasks being assigned need to be easier so the real skill of following written directions can be developed. So, the science directions that your son is learning to read and follow well in CTC are doing exactly what we desire them to do, which is training your son in this important skill! This will help him so much next year and in the years to come.

In pondering the amount of writing and reading your son is currently doing, and keeping in mind the myriad of skills called upon daily in the various guides, I am leaning toward your son doing Revival to Revolution as his best overall placement. This is because there will be enough new skills there to stretch him, but we don't want to overwhelm him either. The primary source documents, historical poetry, and quantity of mapping definitely raises the level of this guide, along with numerous other skills that will be great to practice.

I would have him do the Extension Package for sure (which is scheduled in the Appendix by day). It would also be excellent practice in following written directions for him to complete the History Projects. It would be up to you whether or not to complete the 50 state study. The Storytime books can be optional at his level, as long as he does the Extension Package books.

I would also recommend doing the advanced version of the Exploration Education science, along with the inventor study for science. The Advanced Version earns high school level physical science credit with lab and is scheduled in the Rev2Rev guide.

For English, I would be inclined to do Rod and Staff English 6 at half-speed as scheduled in Rev2Rev (with the other half to follow the next year in Missions to Modern Marvels). Be sure to do most of the lesson orally or on a marker board with him, assigning just one part to be done on paper on his own. Rod and Staff will get to those outlining, report writing, summarizing skills as you progress through the levels. So, even if the diagramming is a review, the writing instruction will be excellent for him to have.

I would also lean toward having him do Level 6/7/8 of Drawn into the Heart of Reading with the Level 7/8 Book Pack as scheduled 3 times weekly in the Rev2Rev guide for literature study. Link: http://www.heartofdakota.com/drawn-into-optional7-8.php This will help him get some formal literature study under his belt and will be something you can help him with to be sure he is successful.

For writing, while I dearly love the Exciting World of Creative Writing within Rev2Rev, I am thinking some essay writing coursework would be good at this juncture. So, I would be inclined to have your son do Essentials in Writing 10 from the World Geography Guide, doing two lessons each week throughout the year. You could just order the Essentials in Writing 10 and do it without the World Geography Guide's plans as the lessons are quite straight-forward. You would do this in place of the Exciting World of Creative Writing. Link: http://www.heartofdakota.com/hearts-for ... #writing10

If desired, you could stick with the Hebrews study and the Who Is God? study as scheduled in Rev2Rev. You could add additional quiet time Bible reading to round out the hours needed for 1/2 credit of Bible. If you felt these studies were too easy, you could devise your own Bible plan instead for credit.

The Music Appreciation is an area that you can also decide whether you desire to earn credit. Most colleges want to see one credit of Fine Arts credit on the transcript. You could earn 1/2 of this credit by having your son complete the Music Appreciation study in Rev2Rev (and just listening to additional classical music to round out the 1/2 credit). Then, the following year in Missions to Modern Marvels, your son could do the nature journaling assigned with additional drawing to earn the other 1/2 credit of fine arts. If you felt your son would eventually reach and complete the High School World History guide, then the Fine Arts credit could be earned there as scheduled in that guide instead.

With these thoughts in mind, your son would earn the following credits with Rev2Rev (doing it as written with the exception of the Storytime and possibly replacing the Bible with a harder option if desired):
1 credit American History in the context of World History (mid 1700s-1900s)
1 credit English (includes Drawn into the Heart of Reading for literature/grammar 6/Essentials in Writing 10)
1 credit Physical Science with Lab (using EE Advanced Version)
1 credit math (of your choice)
1/2 credit Fine Arts: Music Appreciation
1/2 credit Bible (either with supplementation of what is in Rev2Rev or a different method of your own choosing)
Consider adding: 1/2 credit Spanish I (Getting Started with Spanish)
Consdier adding: 1/2 credit Government (see suggestions below)

You could also choose whether to add "Getting Started with Spanish" for 1/2 credit of Foreign Language, doing a lesson a day all year. Link (scroll down to see Getting Started with Spanish): http://www.heartofdakota.com/hearts-for ... ckages.php

Then, the following year, your son would progress into MTMM. For English, he would do the last half of Drawn into the Heart of Reading 6/7/8, Write with the Best II, and the last half of English 6... all as scheduled within MTMM. He could do the Bible study as scheduled in the guide for 1/2 credit of Bible, as it is high school credit-worthy. He could either beef up the Chemistry study in MTMM with our suggestions, or do the Chemistry from the new American History high school guide which will be out next year. The nature journaling could be used as an additional 1/2 credit of fine arts if desired.

The last year of high school, he could either do World Geography or World History, depending on which suited his needs better. I would be inclined to do World Geography (but if he needs credit in World History which you feel cannot be covered by his trip through Rev2Rev and MTMM, he could do World History instead.)

If your son needs credit in government, we can help him earn that credit as well. The beginnings of government is in the Rev2Rev guide. So, he could earn 1/2 credit in government by adding to what is already there. In the area of government, you'd already be studying the signers of the Declaration of Independence through Rev. to Rev. and reading the Declaration of Independence. Plus, the history readings already in Rev. to Rev. would discuss government concepts too. So, to finish out the government credit, it would make sense to add something like The 5,000 Year Leap for government and alternate reading a chapter of that with reading some of the The Federalist Papers. If your child also read the Constitution, this would all add up to a semester of government credit (.5), when used in conjunction with what you're already covering within Rev. to Rev. Listing the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, some of the Federalist Papers, the research on the Lives of the Signers, and the 5,000 Year Leap, you would have a strong high school government course. Another thought for government would be to instead add Zeezok Publishing's A Noble Experiment. This could likey be done just 2-3 times weekly or done on your free 5th day (doing two lessons) to give you the 1/2 government credit needed.

If your son needs credit in economics, we can help him with that too. The beginnings of economics is in the MTMM guide, so he could earn a 1/2 credit in economics by adding to what is already there when he does MTMM. We'd be glad to help you with this.

Anyway, I know this is a lot of information, but in all honesty we just need to focus on the high school years one year at a time. I think Rev2Rev as close to the way it is written as possible is a good choice. Let me know your thoughts!

Blessings,
Carrie

Wow! This was way more detailed info than I had expected, but oh so helpful! I've printed it out & will give it lots of prayer and thought as we continue our plans for the next year. I think I will let it simmer for awhile, at least TRY to do that.

It was an unxpected path, but at the same time, after looking over it and looking at that guide, I'm really not surprised. I had considered using the Rev.to. Rev. science anyways and it would make things simpler to be able to use the whole guide pretty much as is. I had thought R&S 6 would be about right. I was happy with the suggested writing. I do think it a good plan. It is taking some adjusting in the thinking though. My son is disappointed that he wouldn't be continuing in the chronological history path if we would go this route. The 2 boys just finished Exploration - 1850, & 1850 to modern times over the last 2 school years using MFW. I know HOD way would make it different, just they were ready to start back in the ancients again. I'm almost sure my oldest will think parts of the guide are too 'young' - he's in highschool after all, he needs big stuff (those words I imagine from him)

Just a few questions for now;
Would you say my second son could join in the Science too for his physical science credit?

In the event that we would be led to chose a different route for history, would you still recommend using Rev to rev. science for their Physical science credit over the WG?

How much credit could be given toward Geography using this guide - 1/4? At the end of this year, he will receive 3/4 credit geography. 1/2 from Biblioplan & 1/4 from the 3 ACE geography paces he did at the beginning of this year. So, if he would get 1/4 in rev.to rev. next year, that would give him a total of 1 credit Geography.

Thank you so much for taking time to figure this all out for me!
Can I just say this? You've helped me like my sister would have done.( When I wanted a certain style wedding gown for the bridesmaids, she drew it out & colored it, THEN she MADE THE PATTERN so we could sew our own.!!) She was my younger & only sister. She passed away 6 years ago just before Christmas. This brings tears, but when I look at your posts with your name, Carrie, at the top & then my name,Becky, underneath it is so familiar -- my sister's name was Carrie. I haven't seen her name & mine put together in a long, long time. She was a very talented, caring person & is very much missed!

Becky

Becky,

Thanks so much for stopping back to share your thoughts! I am sure this will take some time to process, as it is a bit different direction than you were thinking. While you could do a different guide, I feel that Rev2Rev would be the best starting point for a path your son could follow for his remaining high school years that would still enable him to use as much of the guide as written without so much tweaking. Your son will need to do American History in high school anyway, so repeating the study of American History is coming for him as a required part of his high school years no matter what. Plus, he will still get to the world history aspect in high school through either World Geography or World History Guide, depending which you would choose at that point, but it will be his senior year instead. Additionally, Rev2Rev and MTMM weave world history into the study quite a bit. So, it isn't that he won't get to do World History, it will be just that the full-blown scope of world history wouldn't be covered until he returns to it his senior year. I think if you actually got the Rev2Rev guide in hand, with all its parts, you'd be surprised at the level of the material.

As far as your questions go, I do think that your next son in line could do the Advanced Version of Exploration Education along with your older son for science, earning Physical Science with Lab credit. Regardless of what you do for history, I do think that Exploration Education course is a solid one for science.

You can award your son 1/4 credit in geography for the Rev2Rev guide, simply due to the large number of maps completed and the geographical concepts wound within the lessons and readings in Rev2Rev.

Your thoughts about your sister were precious to read! She sounds like a wonderful person. I dearly love my younger sister too and cannot imagine life without her! She is my3sons on the Message Board here. After having my dad pass away last January, I know what you mean about those instances in life where an occurrence (like our two names being linked) just brings them to mind. May you know the Lord's comfort and love as you miss your sister.

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie,

Another question has come to mind- So how do I go about giving him a grade for the history? How would I put this down on transcript? If he does MTMM the following year, would he get another credit in American History? OH, that was more than one question

This is looking good all the way around!

Wondering if it's possible to include the 2nd son coming into 9th grade into the same guide for history as well, as Jennymommy suggested,.. they are pretty close skill wise and at same level in grammar/writing. Maybe that's a whole new post! I think I've enough to think on

Becky

Becky,

Yes, you could award a full history credit each year, as long as your son does the extensions and isn't skipping things as he goes. It is not uncommon to split the study of U.S. History into two years and two credits. Our guides are very full and rich with history content and activities, allowing up to a full credit to be earned each year in this area. The CLEP test for college also has U.S. History split into two parts, listing their two parts as "HIstory of the United States I: Early Colonization to 1877" and "History of the United States II: 1865 to Present." I would be inclined to list the courses on your transcript in a similar way.

I do think it is possible for your next son in line to join your older son, as long as the boys work well together and the older son wouldn't feel overshadowed by the younger. It would also be good to check the placement chart for the next son in line to see if he fits well in Rev2Rev. Placement could differ for him. But, I would definitely consider placing the two boys together in Rev2Rev as a very good option. It would help you too to keep them on a similar page, and if your second son were well-placed, he could just continue on the path doing Rev2Rev, MTMM, World Geography, and World History for his high school years.

You could use different books for Drawn into the Heart of Reading for the next son in line, if his reading level differed from your oldest son's level. The boy read-aloud options from CTC can also be used with Drawn into the Heart of Reading instead, as they also include one book per genre. So, you could consider this set of books for use with DITHR instead, if they appeal to your boys more than the Level 7/8 Book Pack I linked earlier in this thread. Link - scroll down to boy read-aloud set in CTC to see titles:
http://www.heartofdakota.com/hearts-for ... ckages.php

Blessings,
Carrie

Ok, thanks Carrie! This has all been so very helpful.

Becky

Wow so much of this is like my son, only my son is so much further behind and older.
It's not going to be easy but by reading this I have hope.
Carrie if you see this and if you've read my email, then one thing I would add is that while my son isn't college bound he would love to graduate someday. Even if it takes him awhile.