Placing a child who is "all over the place" skill-wise?

[lmercon]

I would strongly encourage NOT to take a year to work heavily on the very things that he most despises, even if it is because of some kind of learning disability. I can't even imagine what that would be like for a child - to start each day staring into, what feels like to a child, an eternity of incredibly challenging work with no relief or "fun" in the school day. Instead, I would suggest you choose the guide that is he is most ready for in terms of comprehension of the material and interest. Then, I would recommend that you go at half-pace as you work to build up the skills that are lacking. If the child is enjoying what he is learning, often he is practicing necessary skills without really realizing it.
hth,
Laura

[Nealewill]

I couldn't agree more with what Laura is saying. I think with HOD some of those skills will definitely come. I think you mentioned that you were possibly going to start teaching him typing? I think I would work hard on that starting now and all through summer. Maybe that will help tremendously.

I think also - maybe if you just let him write and didn't say anything at all about it - that might help him also. But who knows. I know I did that with my dd last year. We came from a very text book curriculum and last year I just decided I wasn't going to say anything about anything that she wrote. It opened her right up! I couldn't believe it. This year we are just baby-stepping our way through the checklist in the back of the manual. I was SO glad I did this with her. I really taught me a ton as a parent on how to best teach my child and that I didn't have to be overbearing on her. Also this year I was very scared to let her be independent with Preparing. It took us a few months of getting into the schedule but she loves her independence and so do I.

I will pray for you thought - that you find the right fit for you and him.

[Sue G in PA]

Thank you, ladies. That makes a lot of sense. The only thing is that this child hates anything that is school-related. Not just math, writing and reading…even history and science. He likes to draw, but if forced (as in: this is a school subject) he will not do it. So, there is a fine line between wanting to make school fun and try and engage him as much as possible AND sorry, Charlie, not everything in life is fun but we have to do it anyway. Period. Dad woke up every morning to go to a job that he absolutely despised. Why? B/c he had to…your food, clothing and shelter came through that paycheck. No work, no eat. You might not enjoy school, but this is your "job" right now. It is your responsibility. I do my best to make it "fun". I laugh when I want to cry. I joke when I want to scream and shake sense into you. I sing and dance to help you memorize scripture and I become your hand when you are to tired to write another blessed word. So, while I understand not wanting to make this a drudgery for him…EVERYTHING is a drudgery for him b/c of his ATTITUDE. I know you ladies get that even if you don't have a child who is like that. I hate to even spend the $$ on HOD if it is going to be a fight all year to get him to actually do it. But, I will use it for my younger kids very soon so all will not be lost, lol. I should just go ahead and get it. Get it over with. Bam…one decision made and one less to stress about.

[Tidbits of Learning]

Out of curiosity and since you mentioned that you go to a co-op, does he give the co-op teachers the hassle he gives you? If he enjoys co-op and doesn't give the teachers there a hassle over school work, then I would make it a bargaining tool. He can't go if he doesn't give you the same level of work and respect. I can't see a co-op letting a child act out for long like that so I am assuming he is better about school work there. He is of an age where you could leave him at home if his school work isn't done too.

[Sue G in PA]

He behaves in class. He focuses to the best of his ability but does have a Mom helper for the writing (it is either me if I am not teaching a class or another Mom). He is not a behavior problem. Using co-op as a bargaining tool probably will not work b/c he is not thrilled about going to co-op. He enjoys the time with his friends, but would gladly give it up to keep from having to apply himself each week. Does that make sense? He is lazy. There is no doubt. But there is some disability there as well. How much of one and how much of the other? We are not sure. Sometimes I just feel like giving up, to be brutally honest and transparent. Most days I am able to be his cheerleader but there are others (like today) I just don't have it in me.

[Gwenny]

There must be something that can give him an incentive. TV, games, movies, computer time, etc. I don't blame you for not wanting to be his "cheerleader" all of the time. I don't think you should have to be. It seems like it is pretty much attitude, and maybe some of the attitude is brought on because he struggles with some things, but still it's attitude. I know how draining something like that can be--to you and really to the whole family. It affects everyone. That is what needs to change. I have a couple of ideas. Please know that I just want to give you some help--not saying that I know everything that's going on or I'm judging you or your son.

Enlist your husband in the consequences. He needs to know that Dad won't tolerate him being disrespectful to you. The schooling stuff is not optional, he can't do anything to get out of it-it's your job as a parent to give him an education in some way-in your family you have decided this is what's best--etc. He needs to report in to him.

Be specific in your expectations and the consequences. Maybe start off with something like-not any verbal complaining (to expect no attitude with body language even might be a little much at first-you know best). If he does, nothing like computer or whatever it is that he loves to do. (reading, games, etc) Be brutal-if you give in, it will fail. You can do it with a smile and say you so hope tomorrow is better because you like him to be able to do things that he loves, etc. If he plays soccer--no practice that day, whatever will motivate. I know some say that "we couldn't do that to the team, etc" but--this is more important right now. It won't take long.

Just a few thoughts. Not only are you miserable, you know he is too. He will be happier when you help him to get over this attitude-he just doesn't know it yet. That's why you are there to help him.

I wouldn't just do the things he struggles with-do the whole guide. He will enjoy it eventually. I think that if he thinks he has too much power and control over what he does, he's not happy because he thinks that only the fun stuff will satisfy.

Blessings to you and hang in there!!!

I hope something helps. I think that

[psreit]

I have the same problem with my dd. If I'd let it up to her, she would not do school. I know it is because of all the struggles she's had. So she has automatically just developed a negative attitude about school overall, even if we do fun things. But, even when she tries to get me to reduce the amount of work I want her to do, she knows that it is what I say that goes. Nancy is right. Being disrespectful must not be tolerated. There need to be consequences. It does take a lot of patience, which I am lacking some days. But, we can't give in or we won't get anywhere. I guess the best remedy is love, discipline, and a lot of prayer.

[Nealewill]

My oldest dd was like this for a long time. The curriculum I used prior to relaxing was all workbookish. She hated school. I also think I was pushing her a bit hard. But she is a day dreamer and time waster. This is the first year we have finally had a good year. I think there were a lot of factors that went into this. First, I had been trying to cater to her too much. So if the exercise she was doing called for 5 sentences, I gave her 2. If there was copy work, I made her only copy 25% or skip it. If she became unhappy about a reading assignment, I tried to make it smaller (even though it was small already). I just kept trying to make her happy. And that was literally impossible!!! So last year I actually did MFW (I didn't know anything about HOD at the time and I had friends who used MFW). Last year I also told that chick that whatever was written in the instructions to do, you are doing it!!!! There were days with crying. There were days she skipped snack time. And there we days she went to her room directly after dinner to finish her work alone. Sometimes she stayed in there all night and fell asleep because she was just mad. It was a tough year but it was also the best year I ever had! It taught her that you are going to complete this totally appropriate and reasonable amount of work. And it wasn't that she couldn't, it was that she wouldn't. This year we still have some time wasting but the natural consequence of that set in and she never complains about those consequences. She knows. There are other days were a box might take longer than expected and we roll with it with no consequences.

The one thing I did do is I gave her a sign for her desk with the Bible verse Colossians 3:23, And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men. I have also found at this point that I have needed to manage the younger kids better about leaving her alone, respecting her space so that she has calm environment to do her studies. Using a timer has helped her to be more time conscious. I write in my guide the amount of time each box should take her to do. And on days when she is having a hard time focusing or complaining, we will stop and pray together about it. Seems like these things have really helped in my house.

For my younger kids - I also have some issues but not as much (just different personality times). Some things I have done to help them is we have banished screen time most days entirely except the weekend and even then it is highly limited. I found that my kids attitudes changed SO much for the better and they are so much happier all the time including school time. I also have found that if they say "I'm too tired to do school" then they can sit in timeout until they are no longer tired. That means they will skip snacks and their meals are postponed until they are ready. They also skip outdoor time if they can't get their stuff done. Again, they have a VERY reasonable amount of work for their ages. School takes them 2 hours on a long day!

As my children have grown, I feel like my goal as their mom has changed and grown. Now more than ever my focus is to mold them into the people God created them to be. And only recently do I feel like I am finally on that path. My hope is that when they leave this home, they will be closer to that than they are now.

[abrightmom]

My oldest dd was like this for a long time. The curriculum I used prior to relaxing was all workbookish. She hated school. I also think I was pushing her a bit hard. But she is a day dreamer and time waster. This is the first year we have finally had a good year. I think there were a lot of factors that went into this. First, I had been trying to cater to her too much. So if the exercise she was doing called for 5 sentences, I gave her 2. If there was copy work, I made her only copy 25% or skip it. If she became unhappy about a reading assignment, I tried to make it smaller (even though it was small already). I just kept trying to make her happy. And that was literally impossible!!! So last year I actually did MFW (I didn't know anything about HOD at the time and I had friends who used MFW). Last year I also told that chick that whatever was written in the instructions to do, you are doing it!!!! There were days with crying. There were days she skipped snack time. And there we days she went to her room directly after dinner to finish her work alone. Sometimes she stayed in there all night and fell asleep because she was just mad. It was a tough year but it was also the best year I ever had! It taught her that you are going to complete this totally appropriate and reasonable amount of work. And it wasn't that she couldn't, it was that she wouldn't. This year we still have some time wasting but the natural consequence of that set in and she never complains about those consequences. She knows. There are other days were a box might take longer than expected and we roll with it with no consequences.

The one thing I did do is I gave her a sign for her desk with the Bible verse Colossians 3:23, And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men. I have also found at this point that I have needed to manage the younger kids better about leaving her alone, respecting her space so that she has calm environment to do her studies. Using a timer has helped her to be more time conscious. I write in my guide the amount of time each box should take her to do. And on days when she is having a hard time focusing or complaining, we will stop and pray together about it. Seems like these things have really helped in my house.

For my younger kids - I also have some issues but not as much (just different personality times). Some things I have done to help them is we have banished screen time most days entirely except the weekend and even then it is highly limited. I found that my kids attitudes changed SO much for the better and they are so much happier all the time including school time. I also have found that if they say "I'm too tired to do school" then they can sit in timeout until they are no longer tired. That means they will skip snacks and their meals are postponed until they are ready. They also skip outdoor time if they can't get their stuff done. Again, they have a VERY reasonable amount of work for their ages. School takes them 2 hours on a long day!

As my children have grown, I feel like my goal as their mom has changed and grown. Now more than ever my focus is to mold them into the people God created them to be. And only recently do I feel like I am finally on that path. My hope is that when they leave this home, they will be closer to that than they are now.

Daneale,

What a great post!

[TrueGRIT]

I really can't offer much advice ... Just wanted to tell you a bit about ours.

My oldest has mild disabilities in reading and writing, therefore he decided if he couldn't do that well,that he couldn't do anything. He had a MAJOR attitude about everything related to school.

After talking to a seasoned homeschool veteran (my mom) and my husband, and much PRAYER I finally came up with a sort of plan. First, I really asked God to show me what I needed to see. I also began to really observe my son to see what he could do. The biggest thing getting in my sons' way was perfectionism. He wanted to do everything perfect, the first time around. It has taken a good year- but between riding him hard, doing what I could to build confidence in what he can do, discipline, (in this case, I mean self-control), etc. we have seen a change. He still doesn't enjoy any writing, (which he still greatly struggles with,) but for the most part he thinks school work is okay.
I also saw that he works best with a LOT of noise! Not common, but that's how he can work best. So, I don't worry about how much noise the youngest makes, and a lot of times he watches her, so I can quietly focus on middle that needs quiet.

Every child will be different. I hope and pray you can find what your son needs soon.

[my3sons]

The ladies have such good responses here! There are too many good quotes to quote! I did want to note LynnH's response here, as I feel your ds may be feeling some of these same challenges that Lynn's son has...

He does sound like he could possibly have dysgraphia. I know for my son who has difficulty with the mechanical aspect of writing as well as size of letters and spacing issues typing makes a huge difference in his attitude towards school. If he had to write everything he would hate school. You said you are focusing on typing this summer. Do you think that if he is allowed to type the majority of things that this would help his attitude? Here is what all my ds types. He types his written narrations, answers to science questions,and any writing assignments in the writing programs or in Rod and Staff. He also typed any research things. When we did DITHOR he usually dictated that to me although sometimes he wrote to fill out the worksheets. He even types his studied dictation. He does it on wordpad which doesn't have spelling or grammar correction turned on. The things he writes are filling out the bible workbook, most copywork, and his timeline entries. We do Rod and Staff almost completely orally with a little diagramming on the white board.

Carrie will be better able to advise you about your idea of doing parts of the WG guide, but for my son that would be very frustrating and make his attitude worse to know that he wasn't able to do most of the guide as written and have a brother that was able to. There is so much written follow ups that are supposed to go with the readings in the WG guide. My ds at 14 has really struggled this year with knowing that there are things other kids his age do easily that he struggles with. It has never really bothered him before, but now it does. Maybe that is part of what is going on with your ds especially if he is comparing himself to his older brother. I wonder if doing RTR and allowing him to type most things might help him to feel more successful.

I think doing RTR and letting him type most things would be an easier fit than trying to have him do WG. He could then do RevtoRev for 9th, MTMM for 10th (counted as American History 1 and 2), World Geography for 11th, and World History for 12th. But, that is just one idea to consider.

In Christ,
Julie

[Sue G in PA]

I want to thank everyone who has responded…all such thoughtful suggestions and wise advice. If you've been on this forum for a while, you might remember me posting about this particular child. While he has gotten better (matured) in some areas, it seems sometimes as if we have traded those issues for new ones. Thus, not getting anywhere. His chiropractor said it well, "Every week, I am simply putting out fires instead of making any real progress." (b/c my son wouldn't cooperate with his nutrition plan, etc.). That's how I feel in most aspects of his life and quite honestly, I feel defeated. Sigh.

I think I will give RtR a try and just focus on him typing his narrations and helping him to diligently complete each assignment. Any suggestions on how to clone myself next year? lol