In Little Hearts and VERY frustrated with a 7yo and 6yo

[exodus4]

I am beyond measure frustrated.
We are in LHFHG , week 29 . My 7 yo boy and 5 yo girl ( will be 6 next month) still are not able to answer most questions from storytime. They don't seem to get what's going on in Burgess books most of the time . I have been persistent and I did not want to give up with the curriculum, hoping they will improve ... Sometimes they are able to retell the story , most of the time they can say what was the the problem in the story or what the story was about, but rarely they can answer the questions in the guide!

My 7yo has language delay and is suspected to be very mildly in the autism spectrum, but my 5 yo is typical. They both are sitting the whole time , they are not hyperactive and they do seem to listen. Yet, they do not seem to understand anything! My 5 yo says she hates the books but my boy is always excited about all of them. He talks about his favourite characters , he remembers details from stories I've read long ago ( like Danny mouse-his favourite ) , yet he can't narrate almost anything after I read and often he gives wrong answers to the questions in the guide ( both of them do in fact ) .

We also read picture books from different lists. They both love them and are able to narrate much better. I am wondering if they need a pictorial-visual approach learning ? Should I stop LHFHG and perhaps repeat it in the fall hoping they will mature ? I also have a 8 yo boy who at that age and even earlier, was listening to long chapter books without pictures and was able to discuss and comprehend everything . He is doing almost independently Bigger + some extension books and loving it ! Maybe they just have a different learning style or the deepness of HOD just does not work with delayed children, especially in language ? As I am looking ahead in the guides I own ( Beyond&Bigger ), it scares me to even think about doing those with them . I love everything about HOD, I am just unsure if the approach will work for my kids ...

Please advice what should I do .
Very frustrated mama

[Molly]

I've only just started using LHFHG having just finished Unit 4. My wee chap who is also language delayed struggles with comprehension a little, and has trouble with the questions. I try to rephrase the question to get him to answer. Sometimes the questions just don't suit him. Other than that, I'm no help.

[Tracee]

My ds has dyslexia/auditory processing disorder and is gifted visually. He thinks in pictures not in words. I had initially tried LHFHG at 5, and he wasn't ready. We tried again at 6 and it was much better, but I still remember ds either looking at me with a blank stare or answering the questions completely wrong. I just kept pressing on, and now ds is 7 1/2 in Beyond and loving the storytime. I'm not sure why he is doing so much better, maybe it's....maturity.....practice....relates better to the stories in Beyond?

I've told ds to make a movie in his head while I'm reading. It's amazing what he can remember that way. He's not perfect, but he is so much better and enjoying the stories. I try to keep in mind that if he doesn't understand the vocabulary in the story, it will be difficult to form a mental picture, so I stop and clarify. For me, I think in words, and if I don't understand a word, I can still get a general sense of what is being said. That is more difficult to do when you think in pictures.

I've often thought about what is the best way to teach ds, because he is so visual. I've come to the conclusion that a mix of teaching styles is going to be best. DS desperately needed to work on listening skills, and even though it seems he didn't get much from the Burgess books, it was a stepping stone to the books in Beyond. Through his own trial and error, he was learning how to form those mental pictures in his head. Somedays were good some were not.

For concepts that he needs to learn, for example math, I like to use a visual approach. It serves him well. For handwriting a kinesthetic approach works best, For spelling, a visual and kinesthetic approach works best. Amazingly, HOD does all of this in LHTH, LHFHG and Beyond.

I hope that helps,
Tracy

[chillin'inandover]

Hello! I have a dd who has language delays and educational autism too. I have older dd 18, 19 and a ds 9 so if I was starting with my dd 6 I would be at a different place cognitively and emotionally doubting my abilities, my plan, and anything else that would cause me to second guess. God has positioned me to be in this place, at this time, and for this purpose so I just press on.
What has worked for my dd is slow, steady progress not the usual clip. She is finishing up LHTH week 32. She has also done right side of LHFHG minus the storytime so that she receives the basic skills for K and is at grade level-she is in week 14. When I felt she was ready I added storytime and she is in unit 6-starting Peter Cottontail on Monday. I will start left half of LHFHG when she finishes LHTH. She has been about 50% successful with questions in Reddy Fox, so afterwards I go over key points and reread the part of the story where she had incorrect answers but I don't expect her to answer correctly. She appears to be following the main point of the story, Reddy Fox boasts and he is hurt from a gun shot. Since dd is working on different places in the guides I just post it note where she is at so I don't get confused. Slowing down the areas they are having difficulty may help so that dc don't get behind in areas that they are successful in.
I read a post on HOD that some use puppets to help retell the story. The puppets are paper and popcicle stick so nothing fancy. My dd loves stuffed animals so that might work too! Others have posted that they use a coloring book that has all the characters. You could copy the pictures in the books and have dc color those to get visual and auditory connection. I would encourage pressing on. If auditory/listening is a weak muscle it will need more work to develop but shouldn't be ignored or put aside. I also keep in mind that this skill (auditory) is just one piece of the academic puzzle and all the pieces are needed to put it together. If I just focus on only one piece I can't get it put together and if I leave one piece out it won't be a complete puzzle. My dd is definitely a puzzle in progress and as long as I keep my focus on only where she is right now and where she was my doubts subside. I don't look ahead because I really don't know what the plan is but I do know the One who does and The Word says, "For I know the plans I have for you...plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Press on!

[LynnH]

I have a ds with mild Cerebral Palsy. He is very visual also and has some mild memory issues. Our first year of HOD with Preparing I was starting to think that it wasn't the right approach for him because he couldn't narrate back well or answer questions and he was 10. I broke up the readings, let him draw what was happening as I read and worked on having him picture a movie in his head. All of this resulted in him learning how to listen and improved his abilities to narrate and answer any questions. He also can be a slow processor which it sounds like is the case with your ds. The fact he can relate it all to you later tells me he is comprehending he just can't give it back to you right when you want it. As a Pediatric Physical therapist who worked with many kids with language issues, this is very common. It doesn't mean he isn't understanding it just means he needs more time to process it and convert it to language. Hope that makes sense. As for your dd she may just need some more guidance for a while. She is still very young. You may need to break down the readings, or even model narration for awhile. She may need clues to answer the questions. If she isn't able to answer it then maybe go back and read just that section again and see if she can answer. I would honestly just keep going with both of them as you are. I also have a dd who is 4 years old than my ds and she is labeled gifted. That has skewed my perspective and I often expect more of him because of what she was able to do at his age. I have had to stop comparing them and realize that she actually is more out of the norm than he is.

[exodus4]

Thank You ladies. I have tried to break up the readings and It does seem to help a little, I will do that again.We are already acting the story using puppets,they also have the history coloring book and sometimes I print the story time characters for them to color . I told them to try and make pictures or movies in their heads as I read...

I do a lot with them and that takes a good amount of time from my very busy day since I work from home and I have a 2 yo and a 8 yo who has to study independently because I do not have time for him . That is what frustrates me also , that I work so hard with them and see no results! I used a book called Visualization and Verbalization and that did not help much either.After storytime, I always read to them the key idea and tell them that is how they are supposed to retell the story My 5 yo often reads It before We start the reading ,( when I don,t see ) and them she volunteers to narrate i always know when she "stole" the answer because it,s too good to be true


I am not sure IF I should stop LHFHG until next year because I feel they both are mis sing too much from the guide and I worry that they won,t be prepares for Higher guides.

[acts29stl]

How is the rest of LHFHG going? Is it just the storytime box they are struggling with? If so, could you possibly just stop where you are at with the storytime box and finish up the rest of LHFHG and then continue with the Burgess books next year when you start Beyond? or work just on the storytime box over the summer when there's not the pressure of other subjects?

[exodus4]

Well,they do very well on the concrete subjects--reading and math(both starting 2 b,both decoding almost anything inreading) but they do poorly in comprehension, theydon,t remember much about history. FOR ex. Itwas Patrick,s Day and I asked them what do they remember aboutPatrick and they didn't remember anything,although we read thatlesson in one of the history books.
I might justsrop everything and try itagain inthefall

Sorry,typing onatablethat does not work good

[mrsrandolph]

I really would not be surprised. As you have stated, your 7 year old has the language delays (I have a son in the same boat). And a 5 year old is REALLY YOUNG for that guide IMO. I have a 6 year old in Little Hearts, and I intentionally waited until she was 6 knowing what was lying down the road in upcoming guides, having been there with other kids.

So, a couple of things. I would consider making their readings part of their bedtime routine. Studies show that kids retain what they learn right before bed. It also makes it seem less formal. Also, when you ask the questions, give them choices. "Do you think Johnny Chuck was trying to help Peter or trick him?" rather than "What was Johnny Chuck really trying to do to Peter in this chapter?

Retelling is a hard concept to grasp, especially at 5. My 6 year old can't do it, and she is typically developing.

Another consideration...Has your 5 year old done LHTH? If not, I would suggest trying that guide with her and waiting on LHFHG. The guides get increasingly more complex, especially with the retelling or narrations.

My son, like yours, is language delayed, though he is not on the spectrum. Have you considered taking him to a neuro-psychologist for testing? That was a godsend for us. They were able to point out his specific academic strengths and needs so we could capitalize on strengths while focusing on needs. They were very supportive of the homeschool environment for him.

My Best!!

[ShariCA]

I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread. I have the same problem with my boys and I have been trying to help them with listening comprehension. Knowing I'm not the only one really encourages me.

I have Visualizing and Verbalizing in my cart at Amazon. I guess I can delete it. I also came across How to Increase Your Child's Verbal Intelligence. It's a lot less expensive, so I may try that one.

One thing that has helped is paraphrasing the story every so often, sometimes even before the end of a paragraph. We are reading another Burgess book about Happy Jack the squirel and if f I feel like the wording is too awkward I'll stop and update them in my own words about what is going on. That way if they start getting lost, they won't be lost for the whole time. And me talking, as opposed to reading, pulls them back when they start zoning out. In picture books I'm able to point out what is going on, but with the Burgess books they are relying solely on auditory input and that's harder for them. I also try to read in a very animated and dramatic way. This holds their attention and the "mood" helps their understanding a little better. Someone else mentioned giving choices in questions rather than open ended questions, and this is also easier for my boys to answers. Asking leading questions is good too: "Oh, no. Happy Jack didn't want to see Shadow the Weasil and guess who he saw?" Sometimes asking a question right after you read it the first time will help. These are just some things that have helped us.

[lmercon]

A year or so ago, someone posted on this forum adorable stick puppets she made of the Burgess characters that her dc used to help them narrate. I'm thinking something like that would be extremely helpful for your dc. They are still in the concrete level as far as brain development goes, so the tangible pictures might help them "act out" their answers. Keep going along. The oral narrations will click in time. I'll see if I can find that post.
Laura

[chillin'inandover]

My dd continues to press on, she is 6(02/2006) and in K. I have had her act out the story as I go along. I will read a few paragraphs and then have dd act out what I read. I ask her questions as I go along. My dd has a language delay and doesn't understand at grade level but is making progress. She has good days where she answers all the questions and some days only a few. She was feeling sorry for Reddy Fox because everyone tricked him (pretended to be a hornet) and wanted to send him a flower, card, and candy. I have heard some giggles while reading too! It is definitely slow and steady here. Stopping to act out, talk about, and catch up has helped. This isn't the usual cm way but I know that it is working and I see so much progress that maybe someday when her language catches up I won't need to make these adaptations she or I will read and she will narrate.

My dd is at grade level for other skills-reading, math, writing.

A little funny story-A friend said she saw a fox chasing a bunny. I told dd that it must be Reddy Fox chasing Peter Rabbit and she said, Is it really?" No, I am making that up just like Peter Cottontail is made up and she said, "I thought so."

Slow and steady!
Tammy

[8arrows]

I just wanted to encourage you that my 5 year old gave some "doozy" answers at the beginning of the year, but she is doing much better now. I think it just takes time and practice. Her older sister just smiled at some the answers we got early in the year!!!!!

[edsnyder]

I have a 5yo boy be 6 mid July - he is the same way on the storytime - he can't even tell me the main character half the time lol

here is a post that Carrie and others replied to maybe it will help...

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11565

[amysue277]

I have to be honest and say that this thread is making me extremely nervous. I just bought LHFHG used from a local homeschooler, and plan to use it for my 2 sons' 1st and K year. So I will be using it with a 6.5 and newly turned 5 year old. As luck would have it, the older one catches onto things very quickly, and the younger takes longer. I am now worried that they (mostly my younger) will not be able to comprehend the history or Burgess books the way they are meant to be comprehended.

I need to keep my kids together for sanity (also have a 1 and 2 year old), but feel strongly that I should meet each child where they are. Some have said that they feel LHGFG is not suited for a 5 year old. Should I be worried? I purposely am holding onto this for a year so that I can keep them together in the guides.

Also, I have often wondered about the history books even prior to seeing this post. Looking through the history book and the little Pilgrims book, I wonder if the material is over their heads? I am a teacher by trade, and feel like they are not going to retain ANY of the things in that book. Kind of feel like Kindergarteners should be learning about things closer to home...butterflies, gingerbread, etc etc. I understand Carrie's philosophy of exposing it to them, but also don't want to see that glazed look in their eyes because it is so far beyond their level. This is my only hangup with using HOD so far, and I just can't seem to feel comfortable with that part of it. I even have looked at the older guildes and have wondered the same-is the content of the curriculum over their heads? I would love some feedback for anyone who has done LHFHG-or even in the upper grades to reassure me that this method is the way to go. Just very nervous here!

Thanks--
Amy