Once again looking for help with placing

[MelInKansas]

I too thought your analysis of the boxes and how many you could do in a day was a little confusing - and maybe overkill. I guess I am more of the perspective that if your child has mastered it, there's no reason to go back and do it again. I may live to regret it down the line, but we did skip things in LHFHG when we got busy, or if I felt my DD already really got the concept (this was probably mostly in the area of math, which she picked up really well on, I think I did almost everything else). If the storytime and narration is something you feel like he might need to "catch up" in, by all means do that part of LHFHG with him whenever you can until January and then of course full time once January comes. The activities are really fun and a really great, non-threatening introduction to narration skills. I love the suggestion of doing it at bedtime. I would analyze whether the other parts of LHFHG are what your son needs or if he might be ready to move on. Certainly he has grown some in the skills needed for those things in the time he's been in school.

I don't know if I am just doing more of them than I am supposed to, but the scripture memory and Bible discussion in Beyond seems pretty difficult too. The scriptures are long sometimes, and my DD usually has trouble answering the questions that are asked on most days about her understanding of the passages. But the copywork in Beyond would be a great way for your son to refine his handwriting - just a tip from what I learned (and perhaps counterintuitive to what his school has been doing) I had to cut WAY back on how much I was having her write, and then she was able to try to do it excellently without feeling overwhelmed. I also love the spelling and grammar, but it sounds like the grammar might be too easy for him.

Anyway I do wish for you to have great wisdom from the Lord in developing what you will be doing with him, how best to ease this transition for him, and what he needs right now.

[MelInKansas]

I just posted my reply as you were posting. I'm glad you guys feel good about what you are deciding. The Lord truly leads us when we seek Him and I have seen evidence of that even in my short time homeschooling.

[solagratia824]

Just wanted to chime in that I think you are doing the right thing - continuing on in LHFHG where you left off.

You are not alone! I think my son is ready for Beyond right now, but we are continuing on in LHFHG since we didn't finish it last year. Your son sounds a lot like my 6 yo: reads fluently and voraciously, is ahead in math, and can write well but needs work on his penmanship. We are still enjoying the LHFHG "Learning from History," Fine Motor Skills/Handwriting, and the Storytime. We do spelling, reading, and math at his own level.

I would personally recommend the ERs. In the Beyond manual, the reading levels of the books are listed and they progress gradually. Perhaps you can see what level your son is at and start somewhere in the middle? We are doing the Christian Liberty Nature Reader right now and my son is loving it! The books are great quality and the comprehension questions are really helpful... and I think they are good preparation for oral narration later. I have the DITHOR manual as well - was considering it for this year, but decided to hold off after I looked at it more closely. It would be a lot for a 6 yo, I think. I remember Julie recommending waiting until age 7 to start DITHOR, even with advanced kids. Just my thoughts. Hope it helps!

Anyways, I'm glad you came to a decision with your hubby and have a plan going forward!

[kamariden]

MelInKansas, Thank you for your thoughts. Your comments about my "overkill" made me laugh as I am frequently accused of going overboard in analyzing things. Like I said, I get a little obsessive. You can just imagine what I go through before deciding on a new rental! I especially appreciated this:

I had to cut WAY back on how much I was having her write, and then she was able to try to do it excellently without feeling overwhelmed.

I feel exactly that way about the amount of writing his school is asking him to do. There just isn't time to practice neat penmanship when he's struggling just to get it all down on paper. Today I cut his teacher's assignments in half and it STILL took him 3 solid hours of focused work to finish it all. I'm starting to wonder why I didn't do this sooner. It wasn't this bad last year.... Anyway, I'll inform his teacher of the change tomorrow when I bring him to school.

Camden, Thank you for your thoughts on the ERs and your experience with your son. It always helps to hear how others in similar situations handle it.

[kamariden]

Ummm.....

Okay. I hate to say this, but, after a much closer study of our LHFHG materials and a little trying out the material with Ethan, I'm having second thoughts about using LHFHG and I'm again leaning toward going ahead with the Beyond guide. Here's why:

1) Ethan wants nothing to do with Rhymes In Motion.

2) I'd forgotten how much he loathed Dramatic Play and it hasn't changed. It's like physical torture for him and it brought him to tears this morning when I asked him to simply nod and hug his brother as part of Quintin's LHTH Bible Activity box. He has an entrenched fear of performing, even with just me and his brothers there.

3) In skimming over the Science Discovery boxes and his "Our Father's World" book I realized he's already learned the majority of it (even if not the way that I'd prefer) and the text seems too simple, shallow, and young for where he's at. In looking closely at the final chapter I realized he already thoroughly understands ever concept taught there. I noticed there is a "Looking Back" review quiz at the end of each chapter in OFW. I'm going to have him take these tests and see how he does. My suspicion is he'll pass easily, but it will also show me if he has any gaps.

4) In looking over some first grade reading comprehension tests online I'm realizing that perhaps my expectations of his comprehension have been too high. Perhaps he is actually right on track. However, I'm still on the fence about whether he's ready for DITHOR or not.

5) Yes, he needs practice writing neatly, but he has no trouble forming nice letters when he has the time and makes the effort. So it's really a matter of pacing and not ability.

6) He's just too advanced for 95% of the Thinking Skills workbook.

7) He easily sat and listened to me read the entire first chapter of his History For Little Pilgrims book the other night, then just as easily answered all the questions at the end. Which got me thinking that the way that book is paced in the guide would be FAR too slow for him.

8 ) Looking over the Thinking Games, I like what most of them are trying to reinforce and can see that my son would benefit from some of them but others teach things he already fully understands. And again I see some that include things like pantomiming which I know will be a battle that just doesn't seem worth it.


So I'm left wondering what LHFHG has left to teach him. I wanted to go back because I felt he was missing out, but after closer examination I realize he's not actually missing as much as I originally thought. For most of it, it's just a matter of instruction style. Really, in looking at it, it seems the only thing I feel he'd be missing if we moved on to Beyond would be the history books and the storytime books. The rest of it seems too young or too much of a repetition of what he's already learned or (as with Dramatic Play) is at complete odds with his personality. I'm seriously tempted to either spend a few weeks powering through the history and story books OR just skip them all together and let him sit in on it later on when Quintin is going through it. In fact, the latter makes more sense, I think.

A direct comparison as I see it:

Here's a list of the components of LHFHG vs. BLHFHG. Things that are italicized are things unique to LHFHG and things in bold are unique to BLHFHG. Things in red are components I think are no longer beneficial to him:

LHFHG - BLHFHG
*Handwriting Choice - Copywork
*Fine Motor Skills -
*Phonics Choice - Spelling Practice, Basic Grammar Skills, Introduction to Capitalization and Punctuation, Reading Choices
*Story time - Storytime Genre Studies
*Language Activities - Guided Literature Discussions, Story Element Lessons
*Math Exploration - Math Exploration
*Bible Memory Work - Bible Memory Work
*Devotional Topics - Devotional Topics, Godly Character Lessons
*Science Discovery - Science Discovery
*Art Projects - Art Projects
*Dramatic Play -
*Thinking Games -
*Rhymes (In Motion) - Poetry and Rhymes
*Gross Motor Skills - Gross Motor Skills
*Music - Music

Additional Beyond Components:
Timeline and History Activities
Geography Exploration
Narration



What do you think???

[MelInKansas]

I think you could probably go either way. You want him to be challenged, and of course you don't want him to have to do something he hates. Although in Beyond with the Poetry and the Bible Memory they are encouraged/supposed to make up their own motions to go along with both. This may just be for the benefit of kinesthetic children (which my DD definitely is), but it is written in the guide. Especially if you feel that the material in the science, history, etc are things he's already learned, and if he can handle the longer readings and comprehension, he could probably fit into Beyond. As you start it, you could just see if it overwhelms him and you could slow it down to 1/2 speed if he's not fully comfortable or if some of the tasks are hard and you need some time to work into them (narration for example).

Even though some of the areas covered or activities are the same, I will reiterate that they are more challenging in Beyond (see my above comment about the Scripture memory and Bible Study box for example). I guess that's just as it should be.

Since you already have LHFHG you could also do the Burgess and the narration activities that go along with it instead of the storytime in Beyond if you want to. There are too many options, aren't there? My DD, though I don't think she is particularly advanced in her skills, is fitting very well into Beyond for 1st grade. The copywork has been the most challenging thing, especially when I want her to try to write her very best.

[krismoose]

I had a year inbetween when we finished LHFHG and when ds was ready for Beyond. A few weeks before starting Beyond, we read through History for Little Pilgrims together again and made a basic timeline with 15-20 events on it. It took us just a few weeks and he enjoyed the overview, and it whetted his interest for American history. Perhaps you could do that, and just move into Beyond, maybe starting at half-pace, maybe full-speed but 4 days a week. Either would make sure he doesn't move too quickly through the material, that you have time to build his narration and writing skills. HTH

[kamariden]

Mel and Kristen,
Thank you both for your replies. They were very helpful.

This afternoon I had Ethan complete 7 different first grade level reading comprehension tests (found on abcteach.com, members section) which he easily passed. Those tests consisted of silently reading a paragraph and then answering 3-5 questions about what he'd just read. Most of the paragraphs were fictional, but one was nonfiction and about the water cycle. He got all but 2 questions correct without having to refer back to the text. The other 2 he got correct after a second glance at the text.

Then after dinner I read him the first chapter from American Pioneers and Patriots (the history book for Beyond). I did not tell him I was going to ask him questions. I just explained that it might be his new history book if we decided to go with "the guide for older kids" and then read it as a story. I waited at least 10 minutes, during which time he participated in other conversations and cleaned up his dinner. Then I asked him no less than 20 questions about what I'd read including:
"Do you remember the name of the boy in the story?"
"Did Pedro have a sister or a brother?"
"What could Pedro and his sister not do?"
"What was happening in the beginning of the story?"
"What was happening at the end of the story?"
"Who gave them the food they ate on the ship?"
"What did the dad think they might find in the new world?"
"How did Catalina feel about being on the ship?"
"How did the mom feel about going to the new world?"
etc. etc. etc.

He answered every question perfectly with the exception that he couldn't quite remember "Pedro" and guessed "Pay-go", he couldn't remember the full list of things Catalina COULD do. He only remembered that she was good at sewing. And he thought the mom was afraid they were going to crash in Egypt and that the children would be made slaves there. Obviously he associates slaves with Egypt because of his biblical background knowledge. Otherwise he showed a clear understanding and impressive recollection of what he'd been read.

Needless to say my concerns about his reading comprehension have basically vanished.


I told Ethan that we would probably be going with the Beyond guide and that it didn't have any "acting" in it. He was over the moon about that. Then I cautioned him that it did ask him to do hand movements for "songs and things" and he said that was fine with him. Which I believe. He doesn't hate doing Rhymes in Motion, he just sees it as too little kiddie for him, I think, so if given the choice, he'll pass with no regrets. It's the acting that really bothers him. Pretending to be something or someone he's not, for reasons I can't completely understand, just makes him unbearably self-conscious and overwhelmingly afraid of looking foolish. Ironically, he'll frequently pretend to be a dog when playing with friends. But it's a consistent and, I'm convinced, sincere problem for him whenever he's asked to do it.

As for the copywork or memory verse being too long or the bible activity questions too difficult, I'm thinking now that those things won't be too difficult to modify for him as he grows into it, if I need to, and considering everything else that points to Beyond being a good fit, I'd say it's worth the effort.

As for the LHFHG history books, I can easily go through the entire History for Little Pilgrims book in 15 days with him by reading a chapter a day, which seems to be no problem for him at all. So I think I'll do that. The other book, though, I think can wait until Quintin is ready for LHFHG and then Ethan can sit in on the readings at that time.

So, I promise. This is it. My mind is definitely made up this time. We'll be ordering the Beyond for Ethan to start in January.

Seriously, I cannot thank you all enough for being so patient with me and so giving of your time and thoughts. I know we all have busy lives and I appreciate that you spent some of your precious time on helping me. THANK YOU!!!

[MelInKansas]

It's good that you have weighed everything and looked through everything so thoroughly, that means you are probably ending up in exactly the right place.

I have to tell you, that my DD would NOT have been able to do the comprehension activities your son did. Not even close. She is pretty good with comprehension, but she has a hard time with names and details, as many people do I guess. It does help that we discuss the reading right after we do it, and then my husband always asks them at dinner time what they've read about and done that day and they usually get to discuss it again.

[kamariden]

Thank you Mel. I've really appreciated your comments as well as your encouragement.

[MomtoJGJE]

I'm not in your situation, but since you'll be still doing his school stuff, here's what I think I'd do.

I think I'd read the history books to him at night or in free time, have him do the fine motor skills book until he finishes it on his own time, and I would do the Burgess books along with the questions and comprehension when you do school with him.

Then you could start Beyond all together. For math you said he had done part of 1A? I think I would just do the hands on stuff until you get to where you were in 1A and then add in the workbook stuff... or you could just have a separate book mark (sticky tab, whatever) at the point you are in math and move it as you do the math.

Even if he's reading well I would do the Emerging readers because it helps them so much be prepared for DITHOR. If you wanted you could start after the Bible... I think it's scheduled for 9 units? What I do is have reading an almost separate part from the guides. We do a certain amount and then take a break for a week or two, then more, then another break. But we school year round so there's never a finishing date for anything except when we get close to the end of a guide and ready to start a new one I set when I want to get done and when we will start back (we do a unit study between guides)