Hello, considering CTC

[Blessedwith7]

Again...please do not hesitate to post, I have calmed down... I don't think I was frustrated by your posts as much as just frustrated in general with myself and wanting to get her a good 4 year education, even though I may not do all "high school" stuff. Right now we are in Kansas and we have freedom to do what we feel is best for graduation so that is a huge plus.

So...am reading and love that you all have shared with me, thank you!

[Nealewill]

I have re-read through the forum and I am just curious, did your dd place in CTC? HOD is a little bit different than other companies in that you don't focus on what they are learning about but what skills do they have. That is why so many of us have asked the question about the placement chart. Did you print off the placement chart and look at it using it to compare your dd to where she places? Does she place in CTC? If she places in CTC, then by all means, that is the level that I would do. But since it sounds like she is good at reading, we are just wondering if she places a little bit higher. Here is a thread on why you would not want to base your placement decision on the where you want them to start in a history cycle:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9340

So, if you didn't already, I would print off the placement chart and I would circle where she places at in each level. Here is the placement chart: http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php. And even if, for example, she doesn't write in cursive, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Once you have done that, we will be much more able to help you better in placing your dd and making it work for you.

Then wonderful thing about HOD is that people place their kids on each end of the spectrum for many different reasons. And HOD is VERY flexible! If you have child that is a great reader but struggles with writing, then using a lower level along with completing the extensions is a fantastic fit. In addition, many people come to HOD at different times in a child's education and that can also determine level. With your dd's age, I am guessing that she probably has at least 5 years left of school. One great thing is that even if you start HOD in Resurrection to Reformation (R2R), you will still get 4 years worth of a history cycle in but you just might not start at Creation. In addition, if she does place in R2R and this is her 8th grade-ish year, then the only thing you would need to add would be extensions. Science in RevtoRev and MtMM is very easy to make high school worth and then you would complete WG for 11th and WH for 12th. WH has a lot of creation science in it so she would be finishing up her final year with creation up through Jesus. If you started in R2R, she starts her year right after Jesus was crucified. However, if she truly places in CTC, then start there and you will have four years of history plus you will be completing WG for her final year of school. That will have all the map work you could possibly need for her education. The only thing I am not sure how to do would be to modify R2R for science to make it high school worthy. That may mean it is recommended you just do science one level up all the way through or maybe someone knows of something you can add to it. I know that you said that in Kansas, there aren't nearly as strict of requirements. But my understanding for high school credit is that you need 120 hours in each class that is awarded a full credit hour. You won't reach that if you don't modify the sciences. But in RevtoRev and MTMM, there are already threads on how to update these levels easily to make them high school worthy.

One last thing I would consider is I know you mentioned you have your own grammar and your own writing. Would you consider switching to HOD? One thing that I think makes HOD fantastic is the way that LA resources are completely balanced with the rest of the program. I would not necessarily recommend switching for math. Your already have your own program and it sounds like it is going great. Plus, with math, you are probably looking at a similar amount of time anyway and that is what you are looking for with switching something out anyway, how much time does the subject take that you are looking to switch. For me, I find that there is a lot of writing and copywork in HOD in the history boxes and science boxes anyway. So that counts toward some of the writing in the child day and other writing programs may take a lot more time. In addition, I personally would consider R&S. As the kids get older, there is a lot more writing in the book than just grammar. It is very balanced and does a great job teaching many skills. Finally, HOD uses dictation for spelling. I have found this to be a quick but extremely effective spelling method. So that LA box may seem easy to substitute but it really is an AMAZING box and it makes for a well balanced day.

Sorry if all of this sounds overwhelming. I am an OCD planner at heart. Also - I just want to give you a <<<<<big hug>>>>>. Sounds like you are having a struggle right now. It also sound like you are doing a great job of looking forward too. I know many moms who have done different things for different phases of their life. And I am sure that your dd will turn out great. HOD really is a great program and can be used for many ages. I think that is one of the things I love about it so much. So please feel free to reply about how your dd places, regardless of where she falls in the history cycle, and we can hopefully be more helpful.

PS - sorry for typos - I must run out the door right now! I will come back and check to make sure I didn't say anything terrible crazy. I have a habit of leaving off "n't" on words regularly so I am sorry if something sounds insensitive or mean.

[rumkimom]

I totally understand. I worry about my oldest (almost 17 and graduating this year). We have bounced around so much with curriculum. She is taking 1 college course this fall (and 1-2 in the spring depending on how well she does) and I am hoping that it helps her get ready for how they do things in college. She plans to take community college next year and then move on to FIT in NYC as she wants to go into Fine Arts or Fashion Design (she wants to do both but has to pick as they allow only one major). I wish I had kept with HOD with her, but I wanted to do the same thing with both of my girls.....which did not work in the end either. <sigh> If she was a junior this year instead of a senior, I would switch her over to HOD also, but she has certain things that the sate says she needs for graduation so we have to do those last few requirements (Health, Government and Economics) in this year.

Did you take a look at the samples of the guides? Does CTC look good for her or too easy? Each guide increases in difficulty. You just do not want her to get bored with it and you do not need to have the extra work of having to add to it to make it her level. I could have gone with CTC for my 14 year old daughter but I did really want her to get though that first high school guide (world geography). I might actually have her take an extra year of school if I feel she is not yet ready to start working yet. I know that she will never go to college (with her disability I do not think she could handle the pressure), so some extra schooling at home might be good for her. I will take it as it comes and decide when the time comes.

[Blessedwith7]

okay..so here is my frustration with the placement charts. I can't easily look and fit her in one guide because she doesn't place nice and neat within the placement charts. She might fit in one area and not another so what do I do then? I look at the books that I think she will enjoy reading, that I want her to read etc....

I just figured out where my frustration comes in ...ha! When people say "check the placement charts". I do that and I can't neatly fit her in one, so which one do I pick? We are doing our own Math, our own Grammar/Writing etc...

Or...because I can't fit her neatly and am not willing to go Lower than CTC for sure, is this maybe not the right curriculum for her?

That is what I am thinking...But..I am going to go and look at the charts again, I have downloaded samples etc... I also look at Biblical content being taught because one of the most important things to me is that this is a Christian curriculum and I want her to get into a habit of regularly reading the Word.

[Blessedwith7]

You know..she is doing Veritas Press Ancient History, I have paid for a year of it, we could the one after CTC...I will ck placement. I know History should not be how we pick things but I really like studying history Chronologically!

[rumkimom]

I would not go lower than CTC for your daughter either (seeing how she is 13). When you look at the charts, circle where she fits....which level is the one where the most circles are? We ask that question because it is the best way of knowing how to help you place your daughter.....we know nothing about where she is at, only you know that. My daughter is way lower on writing/grammar than RtR but way higher on math. Because of her learning disabilities we are learning how to make things work. I have her do less work on certain things and we will work our way up during the year. Does that help any?

[LynnH]

One thing that might help as you look through the first week of the guides is realizing that they don't have to be able to do everything in the guide as written that first day. There can be an area or 2 that is a work in progress. So for example if you are worried that she can't do the written narration as directed in the guide, but it looks like she can do most of the other things then you would just start the written narration at a lower level giving her more help and requiring less sentences, and then slowly build up your requirements and give less help as the year goes along. My son has dysgraphia so he types everything and I have adjusted a few things through the years as needed. He also used to struggle with reading comprehension and remembering what he read. When we first started CTC he struggled with understanding The Story of the Ancient World, so for a while we took turns reading the pages, then I moved to just reading the first page so he knew how to pronounce some of the names, then we moved to he did all the reading but I put any challenging names or words on the white board and went over it with him first. By the end of the year he was reading the book completely independently as instructed in the guide.

[Nealewill]

I understand what you mean about the placement chart. If you circled each item on the placement chart - where does she have the most circles? She won't line up completely and that is fine. My first year with HOD was the most challenging because my kids didn't line up completely either. Some they were ahead and some behind. We settled for the middle.

So - age, where does she fit - you have shared CTC but she also would fit always up through MTMM. I would circle all of those on your paper.
Next - Reading - how well does she read? Circle which ever place she reads best at. I am guessing that since you said she can read well, she could do RtR or RevtoRev (possibly even MTMM) easily. Veritas Press has some challenging books!
Writing - this one is more important. How much does she write? I wouldn't worry at all about the cursive. Can she write 5-8 sentences or 8-12 sentences on a topic. If she can easily do 8-12 sentences, then I would be looking at RtR or RevtoRev. The copywork the is copywork done most days as well. That would be 2-5 sentences from a book. And you can do it in print, no problem.
Grammar - you can use your program or consider switching to R&S. I love R&S and it will balance your day. That would probably be my preference if you could do it. You can use any level of R&S - I would recommend starting with level 4 or 5.
Math is a non-issue.

So - in light of this - how does it look? Where do you have the most circles based on the reading and writing?

[Blessedwith7]

okay...I am going to do the circles..ha! That helps tremendously, sorry...sometimes my brain just needs someone to say "do this", like circle and then check..ha! I get it now. I will look and come back here. I APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU POSTING!!!

[Blessedwith7]

Okay...so ready for this? Reading falls under CTC mainly because we have not done "formal" literature study. She loves to read "books she likes" but we haven't done literary study, she reads a lot though..

Writing/Grammar falls under Preparing, Math...I am not sure, she has struggled greatly with Math, we were doing TT but she hated it and was not retaining so we are going back and going over some stuff.

UGH!

[Rice]

Sounds like CTC might be a good fit in more ways than one.

If you want to really discuss it with someone who knows, though, knows the program better than us and has lots of experience helping people find the right guide for them, call HOD! Leave a message (or email) with when is a good time to find you at home and they'll return your call and go over each of the aspects you'll need to consider. Mike and Julie helped me with guide and grammar placement in two separate phone calls a year and a half ago and Carrie spent lots of time helping me iron out the science for my 13yo, since he will only do one of the "official" High School guides. They can help you pick the selections for each of the subjects that's more independent (grammar, literature, writing, science, etc.) from the others (history, Bible, geography, etc.) Will you do the guide as written, or pull in some of those from other guides (higher or lower) based on your DD's skills? Make sure you let them know when you leave your message where your DD seems to place for each subject on the placement chart and what you are hoping to do (CTC) and why.

My one suggestion would be to not switch to Singapore math at this point, though, unless you are really searching for a new curriculum for that, too, and are willing to put in the extra time to learn to teach the way Singapore does. For us, it was nice to keep one thing similar when we switched everything else over to HOD last year.

Blessings as you continue to ponder these decisions!

[LynnH]

I think CTC would probably work based on what you have shared. The fact she hasn't done much formal literature study won't matter much in CTC. I don't know if you would consider doing Drawn Into the Heart of Reading that is scheduled in the guide, but it is a fun more relaxed approach to formal lit study and she can pick the books that appeal to her from the book packs or come up with your own books that fit each genre. It is scheduled 3 times a week in CTC so she would get through 4 or 5 books in a year. You said you have your own writing and grammar program and that would work fine also as well as using whatever math you think works best for her. Since you are using something different then I wouldn't worry too much about where she places with those subjects on the placement chart. She will probably be challenged most in the area of writing but just set reachable goals with her and I'm sure you will see quite a bit of progress. Having everything planned for you gives you a good foundation and starting point and you can then gauge how much help to give her at first with the goal of slowly getting her up to speed to where the guide wants her.

[Blessedwith7]

Heavy Sigh!! Thank you....yes, I think this is the right path. I am feeling more peace about things.....

I appreciate EVERYONE and your input!


OOPS....one more thing, grammar and writing etc.. are not my area so I have a grammar/writing program that is very self directed. Should I also get DITHOR? What student notebook should I get and how hard is it to teach from?

Also...(sorry..this is more than one more thing)....what books must I get from HOD, I know the CTC Teachers Manual and the DITHOR books, Student Notebook pages....anything else? I have a lot of books here but anything else I will have to find used or at the library as finances are an issue and it seems impossible to find used through ebay or homeschool sites, it all sells almost at new prices, which is a good sign

[Nealewill]

For DITHOR you could do either level 4/5 student book or the 6/7/8 student book. Since it sounds like your dd hasn't done much writing, I would probably go with the 4/5 student book. The TM gives the levels for DITHOR for lit study. You can use any books you want. You will just want to make sure you get $5 book list. That really helps if you don't plan to buy a book pack. In addition, you will only be covering 5 out of the 9 genres this year. You can save the student book to be used next year as well.

I hope you love CTC. It is a really great level and I think your dd will find it very interesting as well.

[rumkimom]

Yah...so glad that you finally were able to come up with what will work for your daughter. From what I remember, your daughter is a good reader (and has good comprehension?). If you have never done DITHOR I know that it is suggested that you start at a lower level, so I would go with level 4/5. But, it all depends on your child.....because my daughter (age 14) has comprehension problems, I actually started her at the lowest level books (2) and the 2/3 level of DITHOR. So far it is working fine for her. She still had a hard time remembering what the book is about (actually she can remember it, she just can't 'get it out' as she would put it). I hope to work up to the 4/5 book by the end of this year or I will try it next year.

Also writing/grammar are not my area so I have always struggle with finding a good program for my kids. Thankfully my oldest is very good in this area so I do not have to worry about her. My 14 year old struggles, but it is because of her learning issues. I am using the writing book from CTC, but for grammar I am using a different program due to having picked on out already (before I choose HOD), but next year I am thinking of switch her over to R&S again (I used when she was little). My boys are starting off with it, so it will be easier for them.

As far as books, check with your library to see if they have them....I found that some of the books are hard to find and they are worth ordering. I ordered just what I needed to get my daughter started for the first 4 weeks so will have to get more as we get further in the program. I do prefer to have everything on hand from day one that way we do not run into the frustration of not having a book to complete something.