Help me place my 10-year-old son, please?

[cldorman]

HI! I have recently been very blessed to start my son (age 6) in LHFHG and my daughter (just turned eight) in Beyond. I was told to really avoid placing kids in back to back guides, but there really was no getting around it, that is exactly where they fit and it's working wonderfully.

My question is about my son. My son, Simon, is just 10. (He turned 10 a couple weeks ago). He is very intelligent, an advanced reader, ahead in Math. He does not, however, enjoy writing one bit. Copywork is done, but not enjoyed, creative writing or anything of the sort is not his strong point (in fact he resists it altogether). He has an incredible ability to retain and understand information when he hears it or reads it though, which is great. Getting him to narrate is a struggle, though I know he retains and understand what he reads based on the information he can communicate after reading... when he doesn't realize he's doing it.

I ordered BIGGER (waiting on it to arrive, I'm in Canada). Originally, I thought I would actually do Bigger with both my daughter and son and leave Beyond (I got it used) for when my littlest son was ready for it. But my daughter is loving it so much and it is such a perfect fit for her that I will keep her in Beyond this year.

Another thing is, I truly want to separate my oldest daughter and son. They are very competitive and it is frustrating to have them doing the same work (they've been doing the same work for years, actually, until I realized this could be the root of so much competition and frustration between them...). My daughter practically begged me to 'do her own stuff'...

So, I thought I would just put Simon in Bigger, since I already ordered it and its on the way.

That would, however, put three kids and three consecutive guides... which I've heard over and over is a no-no. Mind you, we will not be working through them on the same weeks or at the same pace, I'm sure of that! (We're already all off kilter anyways...). I would happily choose different story time books for the future times we used Bigger...

My husband suggested (much to my surprise) to just forget about it and order Preparing Hearts for His Glory for Simon... (even though I already ordered Bigger... because we will use it for our other children anyways...). I am hesitating to do this and am trying to make a decision. I am looking at the read-alouds and content of Bigger and thinking that some may be simple for him, but much will challenge him, for sure... especially the language arts and extension books, which I did order some... and can get lots more from the library, etc. I am concerned to put him in Preparing and have him not ready to move up in guides when it comes to writing and level of work expected. I also want to ensure he is challenged and feeling good about the work he is doing.

The content of both programs looks fabulous... I know the books in Bigger would be a great fit for him, especially all the boy interest titles and extensions!

I also know he is already 10 and Preparing really is for 8-10... he places in really either Bigger or Preparing on the chart. My biggest thought is having 3 guides in a row... but I don't want to skip a possibly great year for him for this reason alone.

Thoughts and help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. I would call HOD, but my phone line doesn't allow me to call the USA. So I'm hoping/praying either Carrie or Mike might be able to answer here!

[LovingJesus]

I saw your question on this on the advanced reading thread. I am going to go ahead and move it over to here!

I appreciate the feedback on this thread as I've been struggling with the same question...My son is JUST turned 10 and I originally thought he's be in BIGGER but then thought I should bump him up to Preparing and now I'm second guessing. He's very smart, great reader, but slow at printing/copywork/writing. Even following along with BEYOND with his younger sister is a challenge and he seems to fuss about copying poems, etc. *sigh* So I'm wanting great content for him but concerned about level of writing expected in the next level of HOD... I think I will start a 'help' thread...

Hi cldorman!
I can so relate to your post that I thought I would respond. My oldest, ds11 (5th), was exactly in the same place with writing as your son when he had just turned 10. He too is very smart and a great reader. He figured out reading 5 letter words at age 3 and was reading high school level by age 8. I completely understand the great challenges of this issue with a very bright child whose reading is light years beyond their writing, and trying to place them into HOD that has a heavy writing emphasis. Beyond writing would have challenged my oldest at just turned 10. Yet, at just turned 10 he would sit in our van while we drove reading David Downs books that Carrie uses in high school and tell us all about them. His reading comprehension in phenomenal. I don't know about your son, but absorbing math concepts and science has also been very easy and light years beyond his writing. Writing and math facts lagged for years, while other areas soared.

I wasn't using HOD when my oldest had just turned 10, so I am going to tell you what I did that helped and then try to fit that into the context of HOD. I tried HOD with him at ages 8, 9, and 10 but always had it fail due to the writing issue. Age 11 is actually the first year that he has been able to easily write the guide for his grade level.

When he was turning 10 we had some large problems: copy work, writing in general, and math facts. In fact, I stopped Singapore because it was so easy for him while at the same time he couldn't remember any math facts. This has been across the skill areas issue.

What I did:
I listened to a wonderful talk on elementary writing by Susan Wise Bauer when my oldest was exactly the age of your son. She said in it to take pity on these future computer engineers who struggle with writing and do copy work as long as it takes before they are ready for the next step of dictation and then do that as long as it takes until they are truly ready to begin writing. This strategy in fact lines up with the steps, in many ways, that Carrie takes in teaching writing in the lower guides.

Since I wasn't with HOD the fall of his 4th grade year, at just turned 10 (old end of grade), I back tracked and had him do WWE grade 1 straight through. It took about a month. He copied sentence after sentence daily. It turned him around, as far as copying went, that fall. Once done with that we started daily dictation, and his spelling at last came together which was a relief for both of us. Every day we would dictate one after the other, and he finally learned to spell in context. I also had him do MUS Alpha that fall for math facts. After a month the addition and subtraction facts were finally memorized at one per few seconds. It let us move forward in math at last without assignments taking too long, and then we could go back to our regular math program with the math facts in hand. Yes, I felt a bit silly doing first grade work who could give me long detailed narrations on hard material, but I was desperate to move forward. It worked. At just turned 10 he was ready for foundation laying in the skill areas. I am not necessarily suggesting that you follow this path. I am sharing in case any of these issues are this extreme for you. When they soar developmentally in one area far beyond grade level it isn't unusual to have another area lag grade levels. The challenge is trying to bring them together.

At age 11 / 5th grade CTC has worked. Since that remedial training 1 1/2 years ago he has become a wonderful writer. His writing has details that are vivid, is clear, well thought out, and finally came together. His written narrations are quite good. Rod and Staff he has always done well with. He is doing IEW Narnia, instead of Writing With the Best, and it has opened his creative door as he has taken the assignments down a much different road expanding a paragraph into pages. I have let him because my goal is for him to enjoy writing, and whatever has opened that door I have let happen. At this point writing is really a non issue. His hands no longer hurt when he writes. He writes lovely Italic and actually enjoys the process. His content knowledge is still far beyond CTC level, but the skills he is learning in the program have been important for 5th grade so I let content take a back seat this year as far as being new content. The program though has led to some wonderful discussions since his knowledge is beyond it. He is working through thinking through these issues since the written narrations have forced him to slow down. I see benefits to the HOD skill building, even for children whose reading and content knowledge is far beyond grade level.

I think you have two good options:
*One: You could put him into Preparing where he certainly fits for reading level and age level. Then you could take it 1/2 speed for the fall until his writing builds up more. There is a lot of copy work in Preparing, and that would be good for him. Stick with it. The best way to help these kids over come their writing blocks is to have them copy a lot. The more they do it, the easier it becomes. So initially the getting them to do it is difficult. Stay with it, it is so worth while to stay with it. The more they do it, the easier it becomes, and then at last the reward of it no longer being difficult emerges at last to everyone's relief. I would do the dictation in Preparing at what ever level he can do. Level 2, the first level, is in the back of Preparing so he could use that. Dictation helps so much in the learning to write process.

*Two: You could put him into Bigger full speed and let him read the extensions, and every extra book in the program that you can afford or find at the library. I never managed to get Bigger to work for my oldest with his writing issues, but he did love reading the books and telling me all about what he read. He ended up reading at ages 8 / 9 all of Bigger, the extensions, the classic pack, the boy pack, and the girl pack. Those books were purchased over the course of 1 - 1 1/2 years. He loves to learn, so I guess that is how I solved that desire to learn at those ages. At age 10 he read everything in Preparing. Age 11 has been about skill building since he had already read many of the CTC books; so I highly advise not to purchase ahead!

I hope something I said was helpful, and that I didn't go outside of any board rules writing all of that.

My heart really goes out to advanced readers who lag in writing because for us it has been an issue for so long. Our first K program was a bust because he could read everything, and cried over the pencil. It is also an issue I struggled to find those who could truly help me with on the boards. The LORD though has been good to me and has led me through the raising of him, and for that I am very thankful. I am also thankful for my ds11's deep faith in Christ and the Bible, that has helped so much through the process.

I am really glad I had him go forward with HOD this year. In many ways these issues are still still issues since his writing and skill building is still far behind his content knowledge; even though they are at last at grade level. The skill building though this year has been so good for him. It is a different type of learning that is just as important as content, and I have seen his confidence grow having to do the work. So I would encourage you to continue and pick what you think will work best for him. I do think 1/2 speed Preparing really could really be an option for him, and he might really enjoy it since the content sounds like it would be new.

Blessings for your decision.

[cldorman]

Thank you, thank you for your wonderful reply! I really appreciate your openness in sharing about your son. Sounds like a very similar situation to mine, for sure. I think what I've decided is to stick with Bigger for Simon for this year. I want him to get used to working at proper pace for HOD, as that will establish the expectations as we move along. If he gets used to working at half speed, it becomes a habit and I'll never get him going full pace... ha... I know my boy...

I think your option of doing Bigger full speed with all the extensions and tons of reading is a good one. Even if he finishes quickly - that's ok, because he'll be in a better position to go ahead with Preparing Hearts...

Thank you, you've really helped solidify what my heart was telling me... much appreciated!!!

[Nealewill]

*One: You could put him into Preparing where he certainly fits for reading level and age level. Then you could take it 1/2 speed for the fall until his writing builds up more. There is a lot of copy work in Preparing, and that would be good for him. Stick with it. The best way to help these kids over come their writing blocks is to have them copy a lot. The more they do it, the easier it becomes. So initially the getting them to do it is difficult. Stay with it, it is so worth while to stay with it. The more they do it, the easier it becomes, and then at last the reward of it no longer being difficult emerges at last to everyone's relief. I would do the dictation in Preparing at what ever level he can do. Level 2, the first level, is in the back of Preparing so he could use that. Dictation helps so much in the learning to write process.

This is exactly what I would do if it were me. I would not necessarily be too concerned about the guides being back to back. But I would more do this because I think for him, it might be great even if it doesn't seem like it. Every year that my kids move up to a new guide, I always second myself in thinking they won't be ready for it. Every year they are! This year, when my middle child moved up to Bigger, I was really worried about the volume of copy work he would have to do. By the end of Bigger, it can get to be a lot. But he is doing beautifully! He never complains. Never whines. He gets it done and is very proud of his accomplishments. With my oldest, I was worried about the volume of reading. But her reading level has exploded this year! It exploded last year too Next year, the reading volume in RtR increases too. And I was in a panic before about how much she would have to read. But the books she is reading right now are challenging and she is flying through them. She is reading A History of Medicine for science and the Streams of History book about Rome. For lit, she is reading Alice in Wonderland, and let me tell you....that book is wordy! She was in an Alice in Wonderland play recently and this is why she wanted to read this book - both the first part that everyone is familiar with but also the second part, Through the Looking glass. The chapters are long and wordy. But she reads them fast and can tell me everything she read. Right now, she gets her school done fast! She is in unit 28. She is finishing her days in 3-3.5 hour max at this point. I am amazed! I bought RtR back in January so that I could look through it. At that time I was really worried about volume of reading. Now, not at all.

I say all this though to encourage you. Your son will grow into his guide. That is how HOD works. Typically, the first 10 weeks are the most challenging. So a lot of moms will go half speed at first with each guide. By unit 10, kids usually have a great groove and they are spot on in their abilities and their work load. But I have found that by unit 25 give or take, my kids are flying through their guide! At this point, the guide has become easy. This is not to say that I would bump them. It is to say that now they are able to finish their work quickly and seamlessly. So with your son, it is okay that Preparing might be a challenge for him. I would just go at his speed. I would just know that the first 10 weeks will be the hardest. But once he gets the groove, it will be smooth sailing. He will probably love the independence and it will boost his confidence too. Plus, this will give you some nice distance between these two kids as well. And by having him in a guide that encourages independence, it will help you to finish school more easily. I have had my son this year do several things in Bigger independently and it has been great. But I feel like with Preparing, the guide is really written to the child where as Bigger is written to the parent. The independence is just easier in Preparing and is set up for them to take the responsibility of a lot of the work making the independence itself more easy to assign if that make sense.

Both guides are fantastic but if it were me, I would probably place him in Preparing and go at his speed.

[Nealewill]

Thank you, thank you for your wonderful reply! I really appreciate your openness in sharing about your son. Sounds like a very similar situation to mine, for sure. I think what I've decided is to stick with Bigger for Simon for this year. I want him to get used to working at proper pace for HOD, as that will establish the expectations as we move along. If he gets used to working at half speed, it becomes a habit and I'll never get him going full pace... ha... I know my boy...

I think your option of doing Bigger full speed with all the extensions and tons of reading is a good one. Even if he finishes quickly - that's ok, because he'll be in a better position to go ahead with Preparing Hearts...

Thank you, you've really helped solidify what my heart was telling me... much appreciated!!!

I just saw this after I finished my post. But I did just want to mention that a lot of times doing half speed can just mean that you are setting a timer for however long you expect your child to work that day and you just finish what you can in that time. That is exactly what we do. And after a while, you find that you actually gravitate into a full day easily. We never really stayed half speed for very long. And it is done more so in a way to just make it so that the day isn't horribly long or frustrating. But if your son is a really good reader and loves to read, he may enjoy Bigger more than Preparing too. Both are great guides! I just wanted to encourage you with Preparing if you were worried about the volume of writing. I do think that people's opinions on different guides can really sway advice given. To me, I had several people tell me not start my oldest in Preparing at 8. And I am so glad I didn't take their advice! If I would have put that child in Bigger, then I probably would have been unhappy with HOD because my year would have been too easy for her. But I know my child! I put her in Preparing. And while we had our challenges at first, it was the best year of homeschooling we ever had!

One thing I love about HOD is the diversity of their levels. I love that they have the levels set up in a way that can either cater to kids who love to read tons of books but aren't as strong in writing (like using a lower level with the extensions for a child who loves to read). And it can cater to the individual abilities of the child as a whole (using the placement chart to place your child based on abilities is ingenious). Sounds like you feel really great about using Bigger with the extensions. You know your child best . And I love that you want to make a year for your child where they can grow successfully feeling very accomplished about their year as they do grow. But I just want you to be encouraged that even if other moms comment on how much writing is in Preparing, it really isn't that bad. Yes, copywork can take 5-10 min at a time. That is truly okay and my oldest did it well.

Just a side note - my kids are not natural readers in any way. They don't actually like to read all that much nor were my two oldest good at reading. When I first considered switching to HOD, I was really scared to even think about it because it was a literature based curriculum. But two full years ago, I knew that what I was doing wasn't working. I had been eclectic and then tried another boxed curriculum that just wasn't working out. My oldest was a real challenge at the time - she could hardly sit still and focus at all. My hands down, number one reason for being willing to buy it and try it was that Carrie has 4 boys and Julie has 3. If this program is written with boys in mind, then hopefully it will be a great fit for my oldest dd who can't sit still and work! Even my son, he struggled with fine motor and writing. I would never say writing is easy for him. He also has auditory processing disorder making language a significant struggle. And he just doesn't see things in the world like we do. For example, when he draws, he doesn't naturally see the points of reference. Needless to say, I was really worried about him and using HOD. But for both kids, this is program has been the BEST fit! For me even, I may have homeschooled for 6 years now but I don't really know what I am doing (shhhh.....don't tell anyone ) HOD has taken the pressure off of me . I no loner have to plan, I can now just enjoy it! All in all, it is a wonderful company! I think no matter which level you choose, you will love it! We have loved every level and it has been a joy to see my kids rise to the occasion.