Feeling Unsure - CTC

[ctrs90]

We just started CTC this week, and today I came across something that I had never heard before. On Day 2 (the history project), it stated that Adam had 33 sons and 23 daughters. It also states this information in History of the Ancient World. As far as I can tell, this is not Biblical. My husband looked it up online and discovered that this is according to Jewish tradition, based on the writings of Jocephus, a Roman Jewish historian. My concern is that it seems to be presented as fact and makes no mention of its source. My understanding is that HOD is Biblically based, and so, when I see information like this, my natural assumption is that it is information from the Bible. Frankly, I feel misled, and am questioning what other information is in there that I need to take the time to research before I allow my son to read/learn it. I realize that it is my responsibility as a parent to know what my son is reading/learning. I just didn't expect to have to do it so much with HOD.

Disheartened,
Wendy M.

[arstephia]

HOD certainly is Bible based. The fact that piece of information is based on Jewish tradition is no reason to toss an entire program. Many commentary writers use Jewish tradition and history as a basis for their commentaries - which are then often quoted from pulpits. It was just a historical reference. The rest of the geneology is documented and the "had 33 sons and 23 daughters" can easily be omitted if you are uncomfortable with it. Discuss it with your child. There are a lot of great resources of Jewish history that we can learn from, but it doesn't take away from what the Bible says. I would suggest contacting Carrie Austin and asking her about her sources and intent.

[LAB]

How exciting! This info makes me even more excited to get to CTC! I'd use this as a teaching moment about Jewish tradition. To really understand the Bible we need to understand the context it was written in. Between translating and traditions, a lot of the richness of the Bible is lost. So much of what Jesus taught is wrapped up in his Jewish culture.

I'd also use this as a teaching moment to read the actual bible as our true resource. I can't count how many times I've heard something odd and when I looked it up in the bible it had been taken out of context or false.

I'd use both points as teaching moments and decide for your family if you want to record just biblical fact in your work or expand into historical tradition/history.

[water2wine]

Oh my gosh that portion of CTC led to the neatest investigation by my children. They looked in the Bible, they looked at the historical accuracy of Josephus. It was a great study. Actually my kids have had other great studies by actually exploring the Bible themselves. We once did a chart of what happened to men in the Bible that had more than one wife and was the wives that were not primary actually blessed through their children and directly to them. That is a very interesting study.It does not turn out to be so great for the second wife BTW. But it took a very uncomfortable question and let it be answered directly by the Word (this BTW is not in HOD just so you know ). Truly though I have my children check everything against the Bible. If there is an account we look to see if it is true and if other sources are used we look to see what is the validity of the sources for history. Certainly not all of history is in the Bible and God did not include all the information on Adam and Eve's children. There had to be some women in there especially if you believe what the Bible says that we all come from Adam and Eve. But if that part makes you uncomfortable I would do exactly what you did, look in the Bible, look at the other source and discuss it with your husband and decide. I am pretty sure that is the only thing in CTC that you would struggle with in the end. But remember not all of history is going to come with the Bible and I think nothing that is outside the Bible is to be taken as absolute truth unless it is tested against the Bible. I can promise you this though, you will find no curriculum that is going to 100% agree with every little bit of scrutiny you can throw at it. So you have to teach your children how to decide what they will accept as truth and what they will call speculation and what needs to be tested vs what does not, really you are teaching them a skill they will need in the world. I'd say though in CTC that would be the only thing that you would probably call to question. We investigated further in our family as well and it led to a wonderful study. It is put in the manual but to be fair it is not stated as believe this above any account you may find in the Bible. And to me you handled it very well investigating and deciding for yourself.

Another great study to do in CTC is to trace your heritage from Noah's sons. We had a blast with that. We found that even though 4 of my children were adopted literally all our heritage in our family came from the same son of Noah! Sounds like you taught your children a very important tool of comparing every source to the Word and then deciding for yourself.

[Heather4Him]

Wow, water2wine! Great response--you are very wise!
So, how did you trace your family to Noah? That sounds fascinating!

[water2wine]

So, how did you trace your family to Noah? That sounds fascinating!

We did it through the Bible. After the flood it says where Noah's sons migrated and we just traced that to our lineage. It turns out we all trace back to the same son of Noah according to the Bible. It was fun for them. We made a map of where all the son's migrated after the flood. I actually did it because my children that were adopted know very little about their heritage so I thought this would be a neat way to see how they connected to Noah's sons after the flood. Just turned out we all come from places that the same son of Noah covered so somewhere we all trace back to the same son and then of course we all trace back to Adam and Eve despite the fact we are very different racially. Kind of an easy fun thing you can do right through the Bible. We made some guesses on how the Native Indians might have ended where they did and who they might have migrated from ultimately. My kids ask me a lot of tricky questions and when I don't know we trace it in the Bible. Really turns into a fun lesson that God really blesses. Usually happens when they ask me questions I don't know we get out the Bible and start searching.

[acts29stl]

I'm not quite sure if you had a question or if you were just airing out your grievance, but this board is to be for any questions people might have about HOD. It's also a place to post uplifting testimonies and experiences people have had using HOD. Mike and Carrie Austin work unselfishly and relentlessly to provide the needs for their customers. They have made themselves available to anyone needing them by giving out their phone number and e-mail address. If you have a personal problem with HOD, it would be wise to contact them personally and not post on the main board. It saddens my heart to read how anyone could accuse HOD of misleading families and inadvertantly accusing them of not being a biblically based, Christ-centered, and God honoring curriculum. I don't believe their own message board should have to be a place where they are met with critism when they have given out so much. Carrie deserves a refreshing drink of water when she sits down to read the board.

[homemom719]

What great ideas!! Discussions are wonderful and help children learn to look at info that is not in the Bible in a discerning way. My ds used CTC last yr in 7th and is learning that history proves the Bible and there are history writers which write with their own backgrounds and opinions. He is also understanding that history info is passed from people to people groups. I think the info from history writers adds to the understanding of God's word and what you can believe as true or opinion when reading history, the internet, or a friend telling you something that they heard. Does it stand up against God's word? At the ages for CTC, this ability is a tool to be used for life as our dc go into the world.

[mamanlait]

I am agreeing with many posters...I was so excited with this new information (and the non-Biblical proof of the account of Genesis) that I was beyond intrigued. I am fascinated by such "elementary texts" written a century ago which have so much more information in them than what is offered in many contemporary college level Bible classes. I nearly ordered every adult family member the Story of the Ancient World book for Christmas but decided they might not all be as excited as I...but I'm still considering this I see this type of historical education as a way to excite the learner, help them to dig deeper, and research. At my dd's age and level of understanding, I can see that she is using some deeper level thinking as she processes the Bible stories of the past and the historical text of yesteryear. This is exactly the kind of logical thinking I was hoping she would begin to have in her Middle School years! I really don't think this would happen without some challenging reading and discussions. This book is considered "History" in our home, by the way, and not "Bible" education. I feel this transitions smoothly into the Bible lesson, however. So many good conversations have come from the first 3 weeks of the guide for us!

Amy

[ctrs90]

I wanted to thank everyone for replying. I was very encouraged by the responses of Laura, water2wine, Amy, and homemom. I thank you for your encouragement. It really boosted me up.

Acts29stl, I was looking for encouragement and ways to handle this situation. I'm sorry that this wasn't clear in my post. Fortunately for me, all of the others seemed to pick up on the "feeling unsure" title and the "disheartened" signature, and responded with exactly what I needed to hear. I have met Carrie, and I have a great respect for her and like her very much. I never meant to come across as being ready to toss the program, or that she was intentionally misleading. If that is what it sounded like, I most humbly apologize. I do, however, think you were too harsh in your response to me. I also realize that when you put yourself out there and post, you are opening up yourself to responses such as yours. So, there it is.

Thank you for all of the encouragement,
Wendy M.

[acts29stl]

So glad to hear that!! It was the "I feel misled" that came across kind of harsh IMO. So, my apologies to you as well Just didn't want anyone checking out the curriculum to think that the info given by HOD was misleading in anyway.

[ctrs90]

Thanks, acts29stl! My boys are really enjoying Preparing and CTC. I think maybe it was late, and I was feeling discouraged, so I didn't express my thoughts as well as I should have.

My best to you,
Wendy M.