Still trying to shore up the grammar mechanics...

[deltagal]

We're in the process of doing our testing, so we can send our scores off to the county per state requirements. My 10 yo who has just completed Rod and Staff 3 completely shut down on the Grammar Mechanics portion which included punctuation and capitalization. My 12 yo (mid-way through Rod and Staff 4) almost shut down, but rallied and was able to complete most of it. My 14 yo (completed Rod and Staff 5) bailed when he was tested on this earlier in the year and left the whole thing blank, but we've been practicing, practicing, practicing and he got through it today without much difficulty. So, here's my question - what is an oh, so simple thing we can do to keep their skills fresh in this area throughout the year. A workbook? Practice sheets? We use the Rod and Staff workbook pages, already. And we do whiteboard, etc., but they are still a bit rough in this area. I look forward to you suggestions.

[chillin'inandover]

Is the problem more of a test anxiety issue? Do they know the material on a daily basis but freeze up on the test or do they not know the material day to day? My son enjoys testing, did quite well on test, but only does the minimum required each day in Rod & Staff Level 3 as a 3rd grader. He has learning issues related to attention and memory so that is why I don't do extra and only the minimum as scheduled in Preparing.
Tammy

[deltagal]

Is the problem more of a test anxiety issue? Do they know the material on a daily basis but freeze up on the test or do they not know the material day to day? My son enjoys testing, did quite well on test, but only does the minimum required each day in Rod & Staff Level 3 as a 3rd grader. He has learning issues related to attention and memory so that is why I don't do extra and only the minimum as scheduled in Preparing.
Tammy

\\

Thanks for the question. The problem is knowing the material. They simply don't retain it. The rest of the components of the test were fine. Grammar mechanics was the only problem. Both the 12 year old and the 10 year old when they got to that section looked at me and said, "I don't know this." And this was after we spent the last 2 days "practicing" taking the test.

[cirons]

Just another question....are you doing the daily oral reviews questions at the bottom of the teacher's books? How do they go with these????

[tollhousemom]

I'd hate for you to add something extra to your day, but something like Daily Grams could work. For parts of speech we have thrown in Mad Libs here and there (usually as we drive somewhere).

However, I was wondering if you are regularly doing dictation? If so, they should be focusing on capitalization and punctuation in addition to spelling. You can work on these skills through their writing as well. Your oldest will also be reviewing grammar concepts in CTC in Write with the Best. If they are somewhat new to R&S or formal grammar, it might just take some time.

tollhousemom

[deltagal]

Yes, we do the daily oral reviews and a portion of written work. But the exercises change each day and don't always include punctuation. And we do dictation at least 3 times a week. We've been using Rod and Staff and dictation for 2 1/2 years.

All my boys act as if they've never seen any of this before...every time we go over it. My middle son who is quite visual seems to do the best job at grasping it.

I've posted about this before over the year. I simply don't feel that we're making progress with mechanics.

[tollhousemom]

(Links removed by moderator per board rules.)

I wonder if part of the problem might also be that the tests (at least the ones I am used to) ask you to find the error and that's not the style they are used to. I don't like teaching mechanics & punctuation that way, but maybe just for a short time right before the test you could do some "Editor-in-Chief" exercises.

tollhousemom

[Tree House Academy]

That is tough! My degree is in English and I was a writer/editor before I became a full time hs mom. For my kids, if they don't "get it," we don't move forward. Period. My older son spent two months going over (and back over and back over again) predicate nominative, interrogative pronouns, indefinite pronouns, and demonstrative pronouns. I feel like grammar is much like mathematics...they can't go forward and build on their learning blocks until they make a foundation. I would honestly test each of them to see where they place and where their deficits lie and I would start back over with R&S 4 (or 5) as needed. Trying to go on when they do not have the foundation laid is pointless for both you and them.

[Carrie]

Florence,

While you can easily add another program to hit capitalization and punctuation, and there are many, many, many workbooks and programs for that out there, I think it is good to pause a moment for reflection and decide what is the cause of the problem. From years of doing so many different grammar programs that it makes my head spin, I will tell you that Rod and Staff is hands-down the most thorough, systematic, God-honoring, all-inclusive English (grammar and writing) program out there. So, if this is true, then why are your kiddos struggling on the capitalization and punctuation portion?

So, here is the answer I've found through 20+ years of watching kiddos take standardized tests! Using correct capitalization and punctuation is a habit that has to be formed. It is not something that cannot be taught and retained in a workbook format. It is something that has to be emphasized each and every day as children write. To form the habit of using capitalization and punctuation correctly, make sure your kiddos are using these skills correctly in their own writing every day. I check everything my kiddos write every day! I use my pencil and editing marks to mark their writing and make them correct any needed capitalization and punctuation in everything they do. If kiddos can do it in their own written work, they can do it on a test.

So, here are a couple of questions to ponder. How well do your kiddos do with the skills of capitalization and punctuation in their daily writing? Have you been requiring them to correct their written work daily if it isn't correct? If not, now is a great time to start. I do all my corrections on my children's writing in pencil, underlining any letters needing to be capitalized three times, making an empty circle at the spot where punctuation is missing, and circling incorrectly spelled words and writing the correct spelling in the margin. My kiddos then erase and add the capital letters, erase and add the correct punctuation, and erase and copy the correct spelling (erasing my writing when they're done, so they have a clean copy). With my little people, I have them correct their writing right as they are writing, or directly after they've finished. With my big people, I edit it and hand it back to be corrected later in the day.

Another thing to ponder is... Did your kiddos form incorrect habits of capitalization, spelling, and punctuation early in their writing years, prior to switching to HOD or Rod and Staff? If so, you can expect that it will take longer to undo a bad habit than it would normally take to form a good habit from the beginning. I share this not to discourage you, but rather to encourage you to persevere. Habits take time to form!

One last thing that is great to know is that Rod and Staff covers so many of the skills tests in the language arts and reading sections of the subtests. So, if they did quite well in other areas, you should take a moment to feel good about that. If spelling and capitalization have continued to be a weak area, then you know you need to work on forming correct habits there. If it makes you feel better, you may want to make an index card for each capitalization and each punctuation rule taught in Rod and Staff. Then, you could number the cards and for awhile code the mistakes your kiddos make in their writing by number in the margin and have them read the corresponding rule card too when they correct their mistakes. I wouldn't go overboard with this though, maybe just working one rule per week and adding to the rules as your kiddos get them down. Forming a habit will go further than the drill though.

Don't be discouraged! Capitalization and punctuation were far away the lowest subtest scores for many students in every school I was at, not just in my classroom. So, it is a tough area for many kiddos! Often we had drilled the rules and practiced finding errors in passages daily in our classroom all year long, only to find that certain kiddos still did not perform well on the capitalization and punctuation portion of the standardized test. We discovered that very often these were the kiddos who habitually omitted these skills in their own daily writing, and then struggled in these same areas on the standardized test portions. When I began having my whole classroom fix their mistakes each day, we found a much better end-of-the-year test result (but even more importantly, the kiddos written work improved too).

Blessings,
Carrie

[deltagal]

Many, many good thoughts here. As I've continued to reflect on this throughout the week, I think the challenge lies in the fact that my 12 and 10 year old don't write sentences or do dictation exercises at the level they are being tested. For example, their work doesn't include many quotations at this point, but quotations are on the test. In fact, my 10 year old just developed the ability to actually write more than a few words in the last 6 months! And although we do go over incorrect punctuation I have not had them redo it, per se. I think I'll work with these ideas a bit and see where they take us.

I've grown very slow to supplement in the last couple of years because I have found that I more than likely have all I need at hand. It's simply a matter of discerning if I'm using my resources to their fullest potential. Once again I see more opportunities here with what we have already than a need to add more. Thank goodness!

Thank you all. I'll let you know down the road if we're seeing a difference.

[Carrie]

Florence,

Thanks so much for coming back and sharing your thoughts. This is a good topic, and one that is near and dear to so many of our hearts!

Honestly, until your older kiddos are writing longer passages on a consistent basis each day, they are likely not going to score as well in the capitalization, punctuation, and mechanics portions of the standardized tests. This is because often until kiddos are consistently needing to call upon the rules in these skill areas in their daily writing, this body of skills will have little to no meaning to them. So, while you can work on knowing the rules in these areas, improvement will come more as they need to apply the rules in the day-to-day. As your kiddos are moving toward writing more, which is wonderful, take care to balance the teaching and enforcing of rules with being mindful not to break their spirit and make them dislike writing. It is a fine-balance, and one I seek every day.

Blessings,
Carrie

[deltagal]

Honestly, until your older kiddos are writing longer passages on a consistent basis each day, they are likely not going to score as well in the capitalization, punctuation, and mechanics portions of the standardized tests. This is because often until kiddos are consistently needing to call upon the rules in these skill areas in their daily writing, this body of skills will have little to no meaning to them. So, while you can work on knowing the rules in these areas, improvement will come more as they need to apply the rules in the day-to-day. As your kiddos are moving toward writing more, which is wonderful, take care to balance the teaching and enforcing of rules with being mindful not to break their spirit and make them dislike writing. It is a fine-balance, and one I seek every day.

Carrie,

Thank you for sharing this. It does help put it all into the proper perspective. And the perfect example is my 14 yo who does a tremendous amount of writing now and for whom everything seems to finally be clicking! Unlike his younger 2 brothers when he looked at the grammar mechanics portion of the CAT he said, "You're kidding...right?! And I smiled and said, "I knew you would be surprised!" We'll see how the scores turn out...

Thank you again. I'm letting this one go.