Page 1 of 3

DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:10 pm
by alydar
In our house we started Little Hearts for DD5 and Beyond for DS7 mid June. As of today, we have made it to Unit 3 Day 4 for DS in Beyond and we're going 1/2 pace for DD5 in Little Hearts. The problem: DS is just not into ANY of it. And the whole thing makes me sad. It's like pulling teeth to get him going and most times I feel like I might as well be trying to educate the doorknob for as much interest as he expresses. He is totally off in La-La-Land, Never-Land, Land of Nod......you name it. Anywhere but in the Stories for Little Pilgrims, American Pioneers and Patriots, Benjamin West and His Cat Grimalkin....ugh!

Is is ready for this level you may ask? According to the chart, yes. He is more than capable of doing the work. But unless he has a genuine interest in something I'm going to get the short end of the stick in regards to his effort. And the poetry - ha! forget it! Anyone speak Greek?? I do according to him! :lol:

So I suppose my questions are: Are we just banging our heads on the brick wall with this curriculum for him? Or is this to be expected with boys? Boys his age?? I'm totally lost as to what to do for him. I really would love for him to look forward to doing school but that might just be a pipe dream. He is proving to be a very visual and hands-on type and my reading aloud to him is his most difficult area. He has a very hard time staying "tuned in" to the reading and being able to tell me anything about what he heard. And I'm not asking for a full report mind you...just....something. Anything! :(

He says school isn't fun. And when he gets to go next door to my parents and my mom asks what he did in school, he can't tell her anything about it. :cry: I'm praying. I'm trying to listen for an answer. Have been for a bit now. Just haven't gotten a clear cut solution yet. So I'm here seeking thoughts.

Thank you.

Re: DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:54 pm
by parjackson7
Motherhood is so challenging, isn't it? I'd give you a hug if I could!

Here's a crazy question for you...Does he show any interest in the things his sister is doing in LHFHG? My eldest son will be 7 in September. I wanted to slow him down a little so he could be combined with his younger brothers who will be 6 in November and December, so I put him in LHFHG with them for the history, story time, and activities. I also have him doing 2nd grade work for math, writing, and spelling so he still has to exercise those little brain cells every day. He is loving the program (I had many doubts) and is more enthusiastic about it than the other boys. I think he is having a great adjustment to doing school in a totally different way. It's very different from the programs we did for K and 1st, so he needed a gradual shift into HOD. Maybe your DS would benefit from a gradual shift to the CM/HOD way of learning?

If he is showing any interest in what your DD is doing, maybe he could join in with her for a while and you could see how it goes. Or try asking him what he wants school to be like. What would make it "fun" for him? If he could learn about any time in history, what would it be? If he could pick a favorite Bible story, which one would it be? (My youngest son is currently entralled by David and Goliath :? ) Maybe have a mini unit study on something he really loves to learn about each day (for 10-15 minutes) as a part of your HOD day.

I really hope that you can work this out with him. I will be praying that communication will be easy and positive for you both.

Amy

Re: DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:12 pm
by alydar
Hi Amy!

Actually, DS did Little Hearts 1st grade last year while DD sort of tagged along with it. So he's been through the courses and honestly, he did it but not without heavy sighs. So I don't know that putting him through the program again would work. He's favorite part of Little Hearts was hearing the Burgess books but he hated having to do any of the exercises associated with them. And the science. He did like the science. But he's that sort of kid. Very hands-on.

Thank you for your prayers. They are treasured. :)

Re: DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:19 pm
by sharonb
Wow. You just described my 6yo. I really don't know what to tell you. My dh told me to just keep on doing everything, and make sure he knows there isn't an option. He must do his school work. My situation is different from yours though. My oldest two children are also doing Beyond, and they are enthusiastic about it. It must be very hard teaching it to just one child who doesn't seem to care!

I will give you some hope- my 7yo ds used to complain every day that he didn't like school. He wouldn't listen when I read. But the last several months he is suddenly working hard, writing neatly, listening when I read, etc. So, give it some time, and be persistent. It's probably just a phase!

BTW, we are reading Benjamin West right now too. :D

Re: DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:23 pm
by alydar
Thank you sharonb for your encouragement! :D

I really have enjoyed Benjamin West but I think DS finds the cobwebs on the ceiling fan more interesting. :lol:

Re: DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:29 pm
by parjackson7
He's hands on, huh? Maybe have him type out Benjamin West instead of reading aloud? :? (Just kidding!) Have him repair broken toasters while you read to him? I have no idea how to help on this one. I will be praying for you both because I'm sure it won't be long until I'm walking in your shoes.

Hugs to you both!

Re: DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:53 pm
by alydar
parjackson7 wrote:He's hands on, huh? Maybe have him type out Benjamin West instead of reading aloud? :? (Just kidding!) Have him repair broken toasters while you read to him? I have no idea how to help on this one. I will be praying for you both because I'm sure it won't be long until I'm walking in your shoes.

Hugs to you both!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Maybe he can build that birdhouse he's been hounding me about during the reading? Really, if I thought it would work I probably would! But I know his little brain would be totally fixated on his project instead.

I've tried the idea of having him draw/color during reading but he gets so into it I'm nothing but background noise. Tried the reading during eating, too, but again, the fascination of how cereal sticks to the side of the bowl wins out. :roll: ....le sigh....

Re: DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:42 pm
by Mercy
Hi Whitney,
(((HUGS)))
I am totally sure this is a phase! Something will eventually take his heart and make him excited. I would continue to require the work and in the meantime totally enjoy yourself (acting like you are so enjoying every min of school, you dont even notice if HE is interested or not - he may just b doing it bc it bothers u...) and just b patient. :?
Praying also!!
:) Mercy

Re: DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:48 pm
by Rhyah
Aw, I feel for him. I'm one of those that hates to be read to, also. Doesn't matter how long you read to me, I will tune you out. Is there anyway he could read some of it on his own? Or maybe you could do a shared reading. We aren't starting beyond for a few more weeks, but I'll be watching this post. If my daughter is anything like me, she won't enjoy the oral reading. To be honest, we are going to forego the poetry until later in the year. If she hates the oral reading for storytime, I'll probably create a project or two for each book. That's always an option, too. Something hands-on that you work on throughout the story.

Re: DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:28 am
by MomtoJGJE
My oldest dd is very visual as well. She doesn't really care for doing school. And she REALLY didn't like Beyond for some reason. She loved math, art, and science, but that was ALL. We are almost through with Bigger and on the 4th of July we were talking with the kids about what that meant, etc. and she knew NOTHING. Even with leading questions. So like, 2 years worth of school... gone. :) But, considering that I didn't know anything about the Revolutionary war until we did Beyond I can't really complain too much. The last year though she's stopped whining and complaining (with much effort on everyone's parts) and just does it, even if she doesn't like it.

My 6yo complains every single time, but she does it anyway. I'm done listening to the whining through the school day.

My 4yo is an auditory learner, so that makes it AWESOME! :)

Re: DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:16 am
by Starla
I'm new to HOD and only started homeschooling last year, but I have two very wiggly boys ages 7 and 8. They both had a hard time holding still at reading time during school last year. One thing that I found helpful is getting some "thinking putty". (It's just silly putty that comes in the egg shaped containers in stores like Walmart or Target, etc., - but you can buy it online in bigger wads, in bright colors and it's called "thinking putty") It gives their little hands something to play with while you read to them. I often would think NOTHING was being retained, but when I would ask questions, they would be able to answer at least a little something!

My oldest boy has mild aspergers and is moving CONSTANTLY it seems like. So another thing that has helped us has been a big exercise ball and he sits on that and bounces while listening and playing with his thinking putty. He uses the bouncy ball during other sitting times as well like when he's doing his math, practicing handwriting, etc. He'll write an answer, then bounce bounce bounce. Then go onto the next question...constantly bouncing. But it enables him to sit "still" :) in one spot, get his wiggles out and still do his work.

Those are a few things that have worked for me. (both of these ideas were recommended to me by an occupational therapist) My 7 year old all go-go active boy in his words "hated school" last year. Talking with other moms, it seems like to be a normal phase that that age of boys go through. My aspergers 8 year old has an easier time with school now than he did even a year ago. So I trust and pray that as time goes on, your boy will begin to enjoy school. I'm praying that my 7 year old will really start enjoying school with HOD this year. We start the beginning of August, so we'll see how we're doing come November or so. :) (figure it takes them a few months to get into the school mode again)

Re: DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:25 am
by Carrie
Ladies,

As I'm reading through this thread, there are a few things that really struck me. So, I'll share what I've learned from working with hundreds of students in the past and also from having 4 boys of my own. :D

First of all, most boys as a general rule like to finish things in short order. :D They do not like things to be embellished or to go on longer than anticipated. So, with this in mind, I do not add a lot of my own commentary to the guide, I do not ask questions unless the guide has questions, etc. I do exactly what is in each box of the plans and move on. This makes the day flow quickly and keeps my son from feeling like he is on a quiz show. There are so many more skills that we are focusing upon in our guides than simply listening skills. So, if you make every assignment a listening test, most kiddos and many adults, will not do well. Each box of the left side of Beyond should be short. You should move through the whole left side in about 35 min. This is not a taxing amount of time for kiddos to work! :wink:

Next, most boys want to be actively doing something, rather than seeing education as something done to them. :wink: With this in mind, beginning already with Beyond, I start having my boys read from and look at the Teacher's Guide. I have them begin by looking over what books are needed for the left side of the plans and setting those out to get ready for me. I have them get their CD ready, find their Scripture in the Bible, get out any needed supplies if possible etc. I have them begin reading and following directions next. I do not allow this to draw out the plans though, but rather help them get any preparation done as quickly as possible. This makes them an active participant in their day, rather than waiting to have information poured into them. :D

Another thing to remember is that most students need to see as well as hear their material. :D So, when I am reading, I have my kiddos right beside me following along in the book, holding the book with me. This is so important, because very few learners are actually auditory. So, seeing what I am reading is a huge help in keeping them engaged. It is also so important not to stop and explain things as you go. Instead, just keep on reading! Don't stop to explain key words or give a bit of your thoughts. This actually interrupts the flow of the story. :wink: Unless your child has some sort of learning difficulty, I also would require the child to sit next to you and just listen and follow along. The child who does better listening while doing something else is usually the exception not the rule. Many kiddos are just the reverse, where doing something with their hands while reading actually distracts them. We're seeking to from the habit of attention. Remember not one size fits all in this area! :D

One other dawning that I had the longer I taught is that boys especially will often not "love" school like girls so often do. :wink: They will probably not be overjoyed with each special activity, nor will they gush about how much they are looking forward to school or school activities. They will instead do what is asked and required, and often not a lot more in the school area, unless they are inspired (which happens off and on, but should not be expected with each activity no matter what you do)! :D So, armed with this knowledge, it is good to remember that adding to activities or making them go on longer than required, actually adds to boys' feelings of frustration. :wink: They truly just want to complete the task! :D Think how you would feel if every time you were about to complete a task, someone stopped you to quiz you on how well you remember each step of your task or wanted to stop you and show you how to do it better. How frustrated would you be to never be able to just finish the task in a timely fashion!?! Much of life is task completion, so there is nothing wrong with teaching the skill of getting it done. Yet, through the process of the HOD guides, my boys have also learned how to learn, and they find great joy in that. They use their knowledge of how to learn to seek information, make their own projects, and reason through their own answers. :D

If you think about it, most little girls will often play "school" or play being the "teacher", but boys rarely do unless they have an older sister. No matter how much "fun" you make school, it is still seen as an interruption to their play, and they will almost always prefer play and pursuing their own interests. So, for my boys, having a routine schedule that they work through every day to get done with school, without any embellishing or bunny trails by me does wonders for their attitudes! :wink: They also dislike waiting on me, as it eats up their time. So, I am ready and available during the school time to help them get done on time! I do not keep them waiting on me! :D

This may make you sad at first, and make you think that it doesn't matter what you do for school for them then, but in my mind I love knowing my boys are receiving a wonderfully rich living books education and still getting done in a timely fashion. So, we both win! And, secretly my boys remember much more than they would with textbooks, so I am doubly blessed! They actually incorporate what they've studied in school all throughout their day, often without even knowing they're doing it. It is just flows into their daily lives. :D

Next, another point to really ponder is whether words like 'hating school' or words that show a poor attitude are acceptable at your house. We do not allow this kind of talk at our house, nor did I allow this type of attitude or talk in my classroom, as it fosters a habit that lingers long after the emotion is really there. :wink: This is because another important thing to know about boys, and all children in general, is if they think that their bad attitude will allow them to get out of doing something... they will pull out the bad attitude as often as possible. :D For this reason, I do not allow my boys to skip anything in the guide ever! I learned in my early years that even if I skipped something only once, we would debate skipping it every time after that for quite some time to come. :wink: If there is no habit of skipping, then the work will be completed without discussion.

For example, the poetry was mentioned several times in this thread. I agree that poetry takes some time to learn to enjoy, especially if it is a new skill. But, it's important to ponder how long does doing the poetry really take? At my house, it takes around 5-6 minutes at the most. By skipping it, you send the message to your child that some things are skippable, and the child automatically wonders if he/she acts disinterested enough, how many other things might be skippable too? This becomes more and more of a power play the more you skip. So, I would encourage you to do what is in the guide without discussion or putting too much stock into how the child reacts. Simply move through it quickly and move on without the quiz show! You will be surprised over the years, how the power play of what needs to be done each day is then actually removed. My children never ask me whether they must complete a certain something or not. We do not debate, and much time is saved this way every day! :wink:

At our house, we require our boys to do their work with a willing heart and a cheerful spirit. :D If they are whining or complaining, we send them to stand in the corner, facing the corner, and tell them they may come out when their attitude is fixed. If they come out of the corner and are still in a bad mood, they go right back. Often, we will pray about the attitude, and then move on. :D We do not allow attitudes to slow down our day, but rather they are dealt with right away. One thing we've discovered is that if we allow this habit to form, then it will continue to grow and become harder to overcome as the child gets older. So, now is the time to stop allowing any complaining or whining in relation to school. Deal with it as soon as it happens. Otherwise, the truth is that complaining and whining will follow you no matter what curriculum you use, as soon as the "new" wears off. So often it isn't the curriculum, but rather the habits of the child that need work. :wink:

Last, I will mention that the attitude of the parent transfers to the child both in word and deed. :wink: I would encourage any of you who have children who do not love school to take care in the words you use to characterize your child's feelings. So often, if we use the words "hates school" the child either hears us say it, sees us write it, or notices it reflected in our voice, our mannerisms, or our actions. It is being passed on to the child, and the child is more than willing to act just as characterized. Change often starts with us and our attitudes. :D

I'll give you an example of this that really convicted me. My older sister's first-born daughter was very strong-willed. As all strong-willed children, she was quite difficult at times. My sister said that whenever someone at church, or other places, mentioned something about this daughter (even if it was good), my sister would say, "She's just so strong-willed, or difficult, and we're really working on that." She said she finally realized that she was giving everyone else the impression that her daughter was strong-willed and difficult, even when they may have never thought it themselves! I realized I was doing the same thing with my oldest son. I was telling others he was strong-willed, difficult, obstinate, etc. Often, he was within in ear-shot! :oops: I have made a concentrated effort to no longer say these types of things about my boys, even if they are true! Instead, I try to focus on the positive, and it makes a huge difference in how they act! :D It's important to remember that our children will become what we say about them. Remember that God called Gideon a mighty warrior when Gideon was threshing wheat in the dark in fear. God's words encouraged Gideon to become the man God wanted him to be. We need to use our words to encourage our boys to be what we want them to be too! :D

Blessings,
Carrie

Re: DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:15 pm
by Candice
I just had to pop in here even though this isn't "my thread".
Carrie, thanks so much for sharing your experience and words of wisdom in the area of our childrens' attitude and OUR attitudes as parents toward our children.
I have been struggling lately with my older daughter's attitude toward schooling, her attitude toward adults---especially at church, and her attitude toward her little sister. I have been blessed by the wisdom shared here regarding not allowing an attitude of complaining and whining. I have not been diligent in this area with my daughter and the negative affect is trickling in many areas, especially in her attitude toward school.
Anyway, I am going to initiate some of these tactics, especially looking forward to having my daughter step away for time in the corner to fix her attitude. I am really feeling the need to nip this behavior in the bud as I do not want it to grow any further.
Thank you for this thread! I hope others have been blessed by it as I have today. Okay, I'm done...whew! :D

Candice :D

Re: DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:29 pm
by blessedwith2
Carrie,

Thank you SO much for taking the time to share your experience and remind us of how powerful our words are in influencing our children's attitudes and actions. I REALLY needed this!

God is constantly reminding me that, as the mother and teacher in our home, I often set the tone for how our day will go and I need to set an example with my words and actions rather than just telling my children to have a better attitude. It is amazing how God can use my children as a reflection to bring my attention to areas in my own life in which I am showing unappreciative or negative attitudes. God has also revealed to me that, when I don't make a priority of spending time with Him and reading His word EACH DAY, I am allowing Satan a foothold in our day, by relying on my own strength (which is NEVER enough) to withstand the pressures of this world, instead of drawing my strength from God.

I am so thankful God has also blessed me with all of the uplifting, wonderful wisdom and guidance of the ladies here on the HOD board. HOD has helped ME to keep my focus on God throughout my day as I teach my children to do the same. We really are learning and growing together in this way. Thank you, Carrie and Julie, for writing HOD and supporting us with your wisdom along the way!! :)

Sincerely,
Delia

Re: DS just not "into" it =(

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:51 pm
by alydar
Carrie,

I must also join the chorus in saying thank you for your thoughts and advice. I totally agree that the attitudes of the parents directly affects the attitudes of the children. It is an area that I am constantly working on as it is never perfected. :wink: We have certainly had our share of less than cheerful hearts during school. Thus far, the punishment was to loose something of value (toy, time with grandparents, media time, etc....). I do like your corner idea and may try that method to see how it would work in our family.

I will also try to get DS more involved with the prep part. I did make up a dry erase board with subject magnets that he could move as he completed a task. It works in the sense that he gets to "do" something and knows what he has left to do but then he was constantly asking when he could move another. :roll:

I will also try having him with me as we read the Storytime book. He does this anyway with the history books but for Storytime there is always seating issues as DD and DS2 join us during that time. It was more peaceful when everybody found their own "space" during that time but we'll try to revamp and see what else may work there. :)

Now, here is one of my concerns...I agree that boys tend to be very task oriented, however, if I'm making him do the assignments with the purpose of "get it done and move on" and there is no genuine interest there on his part (this excludes the skills areas of math, spelling, writing, & reading which in my assessment is mandatory regardless of feelings) then there is no meaning in it for him and the material probably won't stick. Therefore, it is all done in vain. He can't tell you anything about the explores we talked about in Little Hearts or about the stories on the pioneers we have just studied a mere week ago and nothing about the 3 poems we have studied so far and the only thing he seems to remember about Benjamin West is that he paints and has a cat named Grimalkin. :? We haven't skipped anything in the manual. He's been doing every box with the exception of the music and that's just a time issue thing. He's just not interested in who did what, when they did it, why they did it, a queen visiting a converted palace, a little girl named Patience, Benjamin West....none of it. The most interesting parts of school for him are actually the skills areas of math, reading, spelling, and copywork. He does great there!

So, do I just plow on whether it sticks or not for the sake of "getting it done and moving on"? And hope that one day they may wake up and say, "hey, that is pretty cool!"? :)

Do I expect him to be doing cartwheels and dancing each morning when I say it's time for school? No. I know better. Even my DD isn't that way. But I know that there is nothing getting into his brain if he's not interested and that makes me feel like I'm wasting everyone's time and energies and causing major frustration all around. I want learning to be a life-long persuit for my children. Not something they attach negative feelings to and dread. And right now it's full of frustration and dread no matter how enthusiastic I act about it. I personally think it's all really, really great but that hasn't seeped over to them obviously.

I genuinely credit HOD for bringing Christ into the center of our lives and then having Him open their hearts to accept Him. There have been remarkable changes in our lives since having this program in our home. That has been the most beautiful part of our homeschooling journey thus far. I just wish I could get more participation and some interest going. Right now things go in one ear, bypass the brain, and fall out the other ear. :roll: I can't help but ask, "what's the point??" :cry:

Sorry for such a long post. Just have alot on my heart right now. Thanks to all who listen. :)