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Placement questions - what would you do?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:58 am
by parjackson7
Hello! My name is Amy and I am the mother of 5 dc, ranging in age from almost 4 to almost 9. We live in northeastern Ohio. Our 3 eldest are adopted blessings and our two younger were bio surprises. I have been homeschooling all along, but have just found HOD and am now in a quandry (but it's a very good kind of quandry! :D )

Over the past few years, we used Sonlight and then MFW. I was literally all prepared (I have everything!) to do MFW Creation to the Greeks and then Rome to the Reformation with our eldest (DD8, almost 9) when I found HOD. We school year-round and were going to begin the MFW in September, as she is currently finishing up MFW ECC. She has always been very stong academically and I just don't know what to do.

Our second child, DS6, almost 7, is just getting ready for 2nd grade. He is strong academically, but I wanted him to have a little more practice in reading for fluency before really doing second grade. I was actually planning to dawdle our way through a bunch of 2nd grade material (combination of Sonlight, writing, Rod and Staff, etc) until his little brothers (they are 5 1/2 - actually 1 month apart) caught up with him. They are in MFW K and then would go through MFW first grade, and then join him for 2nd grade. That was the plan until I found HOD!

I also have an almost 4 yo dd who has been doing Sonlight and MFW preschool. She is raring to go, but needs more time with fine motor skills before she can tackle kindergarten-type work.

I was pleased with MFW academically, but I have felt that something was...lacking. We seem to be missing that spiritual connection that we long for. I find myself loading books onto dd8's desk, giving her a quick run-through of directions, asking her if she understands, and then leaving her while I tackle the challenges of the other 4 children. That's not the way we want it to be! She does fine with her work, but we don't really talk about it or make the connections between Scriptures and what she is learning. From what I've read, HOD helps parents make the connections with their children. Academics are very important to us, but they are not the MOST important thing. That distinction of course goes to helping our children develop an amazingly deep and abiding love for the Lord. All the rest falls away in light of that.

So, what would you do, if you were in my shoes? What placement/program would you use for each child? I would love to have a lighter workload and do fewer programs, but that isn't my primary concern. I'm already doing four different levels, so I could continue on that path, if necessary. I already own many of the books HOD uses, so I would mainly need to buy the teacher's guides and a few books here and there which is definately do-able financially. We are a book loving family and may need to build more shelves to make room, however! I have thought of combining our two eldest using extension materials, but wanted the opinions of more experienced HOD users.

Thank you in advance for your help and insight. Have a blessed day!

Amy

Re: Placement questions - what would you do?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:09 am
by MomtoJGJE
FIrst of all, I would suggest looking at the placement chart independently for all the children. See what you come up with there.

But just from what you've said, my thoughts would be to have your oldest in her own program (Bigger perhaps? Or Preparing?), your middle three in LHFHG, and your 4yo in LHTH

Re: Placement questions - what would you do?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:30 am
by parjackson7
MomtoJGJE wrote:FIrst of all, I would suggest looking at the placement chart independently for all the children. See what you come up with there.

But just from what you've said, my thoughts would be to have your oldest in her own program (Bigger perhaps? Or Preparing?), your middle three in LHFHG, and your 4yo in LHTH
Thank you for your message. I have been pulling my hair out over the placement chart! I know my youngest would do well with LHTH, and my two younger boys would fit in with LHFHG, but I have no idea what to do with ds6 and dd8. I'm concerned Beyond might be too easy, but he might not be quite ready for Bigger in a couple areas. DD8 could do Bigger with extensions, Preparing, or CtoC. Her only weakness from the HOD perspective would be that she hasn't had formal grammar mechanics because that isn't emphasized in MFW. She has worked very well independently for the past year and a half and she is a strong reader. It's so difficult to tell from a little blurb where each child should "fit". :?

Re: Placement questions - what would you do?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:37 am
by krismoose
Welcome!
I agree with the pp, definitely check out the placment chart. http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php It does sound like your oldest would do well on her own, and the guide would have scheduled times for you to be going over certain subjects, like Bible, with her to make those connections. The middle 3 sound like they'd enjoy LHFHG, with phonics, handwriting and math on their own levels. :D

Re: Placement questions - what would you do?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:04 am
by netpea
In regard to your oldest. Has she done Cursive yet? My 8yo will turn 9 in October. We'll be doing Bigger with her this year. We haven't done R&S grammar with her before or Cursive so even though she could fit well in Preparing, I'm putting her in Bigger with the Extension package. You can see samples of R&S English on this page:
http://www.rodandstaff.info/samples/english/
That might help your decision. There are also posts on the board on how to start making part of Bigger independent work to move them along:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6502&p=47428
I plan on doing that with my dd.
Just a thought...

Re: Placement questions - what would you do?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:16 am
by parjackson7
netpea wrote:In regard to your oldest. Has she done Cursive yet? My 8yo will turn 9 in October. We'll be doing Bigger with her this year. We haven't done R&S grammar with her before or Cursive so even though she could fit well in Preparing, I'm putting her in Bigger with the Extension package. You can see samples of R&S English on this page:
http://www.rodandstaff.info/samples/english/
That might help your decision. There are also posts on the board on how to start making part of Bigger independent work to move them along:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6502&p=47428
I plan on doing that with my dd.
Just a thought...

She will have completed cursive by the time she is ready to start her next curriculum (around the beginning of September). She will be 9 in November. She has had some grammar instruction, just not really recently. We had been using R&S English for 2nd grade when we decided to try MFW. They just prefer to have formal grammar instruction around 6th grade, so we dropped it. Thank you so much for your response. I will read through the links you provided.

Every time I think I have our homeschool curriculum figured out... :?

Re: Placement questions - what would you do?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:45 am
by netpea
I know about MFW. We just completed ECC too. My dd has completed PLL and had started ILL. They don't care for R&S but I just switched her over. If you already used R&S2 and have done cursive then Preparing might be a better fit for you since you said she placed between Bigger, Preparing, and CTC according to the chart. How far is she into Singapore Math?

Re: Placement questions - what would you do?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:51 am
by parjackson7
netpea wrote:I know about MFW. We just completed ECC too. My dd has completed PLL and had started ILL. They don't care for R&S but I just switched her over. If you already used R&S2 and have done cursive then Preparing might be a better fit for you since you said she placed between Bigger, Preparing, and CTC according to the chart. How far is she into Singapore Math?

We are using a combination of Math Mammoth, R&S 4, and just finished MUS Delta (she really likes math - I don't!). We are dropping the MUS, but planned to continue with Math Mammoth and R&S.

Re: Placement questions - what would you do?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:04 pm
by my3sons
Hi Amy, and welcome to the HOD Board! It's nice to meet you! :D We have loved HOD for many of the reasons you mentioned - it gives me so many opportunities to connect with my dc spiritually. Our discussions are very meaningful - I feel like HOD is helping hang onto my dc's hearts. This is not so easy to do - especially as they grow older - so I am very thankful for HOD. Academically, HOD is chock full of higher level thinking skills that are paired nicely with excellent living books. Skills are taught incrementally, so dc really progress from year to year. :)

Thank you for sharing about your dc here - they sound precious - and I bet they keep you hopping. :D I have a few questions for you that will help with placement. :D In regard to 8 turning 9 yo...
*Has she been reading her own history and science?
*Has she had formal literature study? (i.e. genre study, story elements, vocabulary, higher level discussion questions, etc.)
*How much writing is she able to comfortably do each day?
*What books has she been reading lately - i.e. approximate reading level?
*Has she done diagramming?
*Has she followed step-by-step directions to complete science experiments and hands-on history projects?
*How well does she follow written directions independently?

In regard to your 6 turning 7 yo...
*When will he turn 7?
*Can you tell a little bit more about his reading level?
*How does he do with writing?
*Has he done some oral narrating?
*Is he ready for daily grammar?
*Would you say he is closer to older dd in ability, or to younger 5 1/2 yo siblings?
When you read these threads describing the writing dc need to do within Bigger Hearts, is he ready for all of this right now, or is this too much?
Amount of writing in BHFHG:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3005
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1516&p=11829

In regard to your 5 1/2 yo dc...
Do they know their letters and at least a sound for each letter?
Are they ready for phonics? Or are they already reading beginning readers?
Are they able to write letters? Or words? Or several sentences each day?
Can they listen well to books with fewer pictures and respond to them in discussions and projects?
Are they ready for 1 x a week gentle grammar introduction?

I am sorry for all of the questions, but I want to give you good advice here. :D Placement takes a bit, but when it's right from the start, you'll have a great year all year! Well worth the time. I have some great options swirling around in my head for your dc, but I want to be sure I have all the needed information before I give any advice. Thanks so much, and I'll check back!

In Christ,
Julie

Re: Placement questions - what would you do?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:42 pm
by parjackson7
my3sons wrote:Hi Amy, and welcome to the HOD Board! It's nice to meet you! :D We have loved HOD for many of the reasons you mentioned - it gives me so many opportunities to connect with my dc spiritually. Our discussions are very meaningful - I feel like HOD is helping hang onto my dc's hearts. This is not so easy to do - especially as they grow older - so I am very thankful for HOD. Academically, HOD is chock full of higher level thinking skills that are paired nicely with excellent living books. Skills are taught incrementally, so dc really progress from year to year. :)

Thank you for sharing about your dc here - they sound precious - and I bet they keep you hopping. :D I have a few questions for you that will help with placement. :D In regard to 8 turning 9 yo...
*Has she been reading her own history and science?
*Has she had formal literature study? (i.e. genre study, story elements, vocabulary, higher level discussion questions, etc.)
*How much writing is she able to comfortably do each day?
*What books has she been reading lately - i.e. approximate reading level?
*Has she done diagramming?
*Has she followed step-by-step directions to complete science experiments and hands-on history projects?
*How well does she follow written directions independently?

In regard to your 6 turning 7 yo...
*When will he turn 7?
*Can you tell a little bit more about his reading level?
*How does he do with writing?
*Has he done some oral narrating?
*Is he ready for daily grammar?
*Would you say he is closer to older dd in ability, or to younger 5 1/2 yo siblings?
When you read these threads describing the writing dc need to do within Bigger Hearts, is he ready for all of this right now, or is this too much?
Amount of writing in BHFHG:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3005
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1516&p=11829

In regard to your 5 1/2 yo dc...
Do they know their letters and at least a sound for each letter?
Are they ready for phonics? Or are they already reading beginning readers?
Are they able to write letters? Or words? Or several sentences each day?
Can they listen well to books with fewer pictures and respond to them in discussions and projects?
Are they ready for 1 x a week gentle grammar introduction?

I am sorry for all of the questions, but I want to give you good advice here. :D Placement takes a bit, but when it's right from the start, you'll have a great year all year! Well worth the time. I have some great options swirling around in my head for your dc, but I want to be sure I have all the needed information before I give any advice. Thanks so much, and I'll check back!

In Christ,
Julie

Hi Julie and thank you for the warm welcome! I will be very happy to answer your questions about the children...I need all the good advice I can get!

DD who will be 9 in November has been reading history and science on her own for over a year now. She has had vocabulary, spelling, and an informal literature study (I'm very interested in the Drawn into the Heart of Reading program). She did some diagramming when we were using R&S level 2. She sits and works on her own for 3-4 hours a day. She may pop out and ask a couple questions for clarification, but she is very "low maintainance" as far as her needs for school help go. For a reading and vocabulary program, we have been using Christian Light's Reading to Learn series. She is in the 5th book. She has been working through Apologia's Zoology 1 on her own. I just make sure she has the supplies and off she goes. As far as following directions, she may need further clarification sometimes (usually with a new concept), but she will check with me before attempting something she doesn't understand. She is a model student, but I don't really think she "loves" doing school. She seems to endure it, but not glow with excitement, the way I want her to when she learns something new. I want her eyes to dance with joy when she faces a new academic challenge, not plod through it, if that makes any sense.

DS will turn 7 in mid-September. He reads well, but he hesitates a lot (he doesn't like to make mistakes when he reads aloud, so he takes long pauses to make sure he understands each sentence before he will say it.) His handwriting is very nice (much better than his big sister's!) and he seems to enjoy copywork and the little dictation we have done. He has not done any narrating as of yet. As far as ability, I would put him closer to dd, because the little guys are just starting blending, but maturity-wise he is not ready to be doing as much work as dd (He doesn't sit and concentrate that long, which I know is normal for his age.) He is the most confusing of the boys. I think he would have more fun with the little guys, but he might prove to be too much of a distraction to two very distractable 5yo's, and I think he would be bored very quickly.

The "twins" as we call them know the letters and sounds. As I mentioned before, they are just starting blending and reading (sat, cat, etc.) They are learning to write their letters now and have made wonderful progress already. They are not ready for writing words or sentences yet. They do listen well to stories (even stories with no pictures...they have listened intently to The Little Pilgrim's Progress, and we are now working through The Swiss Family Robinson as a bedtime story. I know most of it is over their heads, but they pick up on bits of it and talk about it and ask questions.)

I hope all of this helps you! I am just itching to order everything, but I know I need wait patiently :D . Thank you again for your help, Julie!

Re: Placement questions - what would you do?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:24 pm
by Kathleen
Hi Amy! :D

I wanted to pop in and welcome you, too. Julie will be back with her expert placement advice... She's SOO good at helping with that. She's Carrie's (the author of HOD programs) sister, so she edits the curriculum and goes to the book fairs with Carrie and talks with lots of moms.

We have also been loving HOD for exactly the reasons that you mentioned. I LOVE the interraction with my kids! We use HOD just as written, and while we don't spend a long time on each of the boxes in the plans. Our conversations that are spurred on by the Bible study questions lead to such great little eternally significant conversations. I wouldn't trade these moments for anything!!! We're learning and growing together.

My guess is that your oldest daughter will be best placed in either Preparing or CtC.

I'd probably put your almost 7 yo son in Beyond. He can use the Emerging Readers that are scheduled in the appendix of that guide. My kids tend to like to look at pictures in books while they're reading. And, who can blame them? But...I don't really want to sit there and wait for them to study a picture while they're reading aloud a portion of a book to me for our reading time. :wink: So, I have my daughter "practice" reading the Emerging Reader assignment for the day while I'm working with another child. Then when she reads for me, she's already had time to look at the pictures and we can cruise along. :D Maybe this would help your little guy with being confident as he reads. We paused our school year in May. Allison is about 10 units into Beyond, and turned 7 at the end of May. We are thoroughly enjoying this guide, and it sounds like your son is right where she's at. The guide has great help for teaching your child to learn oral narration. The one thing it doesn't include that you mentioned is dictation. You could choose either of the spelling lists in the appendix and follow the spelling plans in the LA box. These plans are a great lead in for the skills needed for studied dictation that's included in Bigger.

Your "twins" sound to me like they're ready for LHFHG. The boxes of plans in the this guide are PERFECT for short...ready to grow attention spans. You can bounce from one thing to the next. :lol: I don't know how big the age gap is with them and the 4 yo, but maybe you could combine all of them in LHFHG? Garret tagged along in LHFHG with Allison when we began. She was 5 and he was 3. He realy did well while we did that half-speed. He didn't do any of the fine motor skill work, but joined us for the rest. After about 9 months of this, it worked best for our family to split them, but maybe in your case that would be a group you could keep together. You'd probably want to take it half-speed for a while if you did this. Here's a past thread where moms shared how they used different guides half-speed. This was our LHFHG schedule that year. :wink: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5600#p41059

:D Kathleen

Re: Placement questions - what would you do?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:50 pm
by my3sons
Thanks so much - that really does help! :D HOD is not a one size fits all kind of curriculum, as it gives many choices so we can fine tune it to fit each of our dc and our family make-up well - it's one of the things I love about HOD, but it's also one of the reasons placement takes a bit. :D

I think your dd individually places in PHFHG, but could very well do Bigger Hearts along with the extensions as another option. Your 6 yo ds probably places in Beyond individually, but he could possibly do Bigger Hearts with big sis' too if you think he can hang with the writing. Or, he could do LHFHG with 5 1/2 yo dc and just use Beyond for LA/math. Your little one fits in LHTH, which will be easy to do no matter what. :D

So, I am thinking looking down the road, that this option would be a good one...
8 yo dd in PHFHG
6 yo ds in LHFHG with Beyond right side of plans along with...
5 1/2 yo dc in LHFHG with LHFHG K options
4 yo doing a leisurely trip through LHTH

The reason I like this option is you can let dd soar with PHFHG, and you can let ds join his brothers which will fit his maturity better and his attention span better in the long run. By doing Beyond's spelling list LA plans, 1 x a week grammar, Emerging Reader's Set (ERS) along with oral comprehension questions, and hands-on math (unless you're doing something else for him). Whenever he finishes the ERS, he can start DITHOR Level 2/3 and work alongside big sis'. He is still within the right target age range for LHFHG, and by doing Beyond's LA/math he'll be upping those areas well. There are many supplemental titles for LHFHG's history listed in its Appendix, so you can always get some of those for 6 yo ds too if you'd like. :D

Otherwise, you could put 6 yo ds and 8 yo dd (turning 7 and 9 soon) together in Bigger Hearts and have dd do extensions. This could be hard for your ds though - not sure - you could check out the Bigger Hearts writing link and see if he can comfortably do those writing assignments or not. With the extensions, I don't think it would be too easy for dd at all. However, you would be reading the history and science to them within BHFHG, whereas in PHFHG your dd would read her own science and half her history, you'd read a small portion of her history.

Still another option would be to do PHFHG with dd, Beyond with 6 yo ds, LHFHG with the 5 1/2 yo dc, and LHTH with the 4 yo. This would have everyone appropriately placed, but you would be doing 4 HOD guides. I'm not sure if this is a good path down the road. We usually advise moms to start with 2 or at the most 3 HOD guides first, however, you will know what you want to do here. :D

I think I'd lean toward the first option I listed out (8 yo PHFHG, 6 yo in LHFHG with Beyond options along with 5 1/2 yo dc in LHFHG, and LHTH for the little one), as it seems to fit everyone quite well overall and won't rush your 6 yo ds too much. :D I think I'd try to only do 3 HOD programs to start with, and your 6 yo truly can be combined with someone, either older dd or younger brothers. I think it depends on their personalities and how well they work together too. Either combining option is a good one. I hope this helps! :D

In Christ,
Julie

P.S. Kathleen and I were typing the same time here. Thanks for your kind words, Kathleen! :D Kathleen always has good advice too. :) :) :)

Re: Placement questions - what would you do?

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:35 pm
by parjackson7
I so appreciate your help and insight, everyone! We've had a busy few days, so I'm just now getting to say "Thank you".

I have prayerfully considered all the options and have decided on the following:

LHTH for 4yo
LHFHG for all the boys
BHFHG with extensions for DD8.

I had the most difficult time deciding for DD8 because I know she could do really well with either Preparing or CTC. I am being led to slow her down a bit for a smooth transition to HOD and to allow her time to follow more of her own interests. She really wants to learn to sew and type, so we will definitely be able to fit those in to the schedule. Since we school year round, I know she will catch up quickly with the other programs.

DS6 was my other challenge. Just in looking over the lesson plans online, I think he would really enjoy the activities in LHFHG. I figure DD8 can be involved, too, so she can develop that spiritual depth that is so important.

One a positive note, my children were praised up one side and down the other at church today because of their behavior and their knowledge of Scripture during VBS last week. God is doing wonderful works even when we struggle in the day to day decisions (like picking curriculum for home schooling!)

Thank you again for all of your help. I look forward to chatting with you in the future. :D