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At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:42 pm
by alydar
We were suppose to start our new levels officially Monday of this week but so far it has proven to be a bust. :oops: My plans are to have DD5 start LHFHG on the k level and move through the 1st grade level over 2 years. DS7 is starting Beyond. Last night I got everything prepared for their days. Once the sun rose it was nothing but chaos through the morning. So I ended up piece-mealing together the curriculum (a little - very little - in the morning and cramming what was left late this afternoon.) The problem lies in that both kids need 100% of my attention - no independent work going on at all. So when I was with one the other was left in outer space.

Last year was easier with DD kinda trailing along behind with DS in LHFHG but now that each has their own curriculum it's a whole 'nother ball game. I haven't a clue how to approach this or handle it. Now, to put the cherry on the sundae throw DS2 (causing chaos right and left) into the mix and you've got a glorious mess. :roll:

HOW do you ladies run 2 separate guides???? I need details on what you do with everyone when both of them are totally dependent on your 100% attention to get through the school day.

I even thought of putting DD into Beyond left side and LH right side k level (at 5 years old) but I'm not convinced that's the smartest move for her.

Thoughts and prayers greatly appreciated! :)

Re: At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:05 pm
by mamas4bugs
(((hugs))) It will get better. :)

I don't know that I have any fantastic advice. Even running 3 guides, mine tend to be able to work fairly independently. Part of it is going to be training, and part of it is just this season of life. Can your oldest in Beyond do any of it independently? Copy and/or illustrate the poem, maybe? Can one entertain the baby while you work with the other one?

If Beyond takes 2 1/2 hours (less, once you find your feet) and LHFHG takes an hour and a half, could you just do them separately? School with one while the other plays (maybe with the youngest) or watches a video, and then school with the other? You could even break it up--you know, ds does 2 boxes while dd plays, and then dd does 2 boxes and they switch off like that until you're done?

Wish I could be more helpful! Said a prayer for your days.

Re: At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:54 pm
by krismoose
I found it helpful to sit down without distractions :roll: :lol: for 15 min and start listing the toys/activities and school work that can be done independently. So for my 6.5yo, this includes brushing teeth, tidying his bedroom, handwriting, reading x pages to himself, finising his math once I start it with him, leapster, legos, and more legos ;-). For my 4yo, it's dressing, teeth, playing with a variety of toys, Starfall on the computer, dvd. For the 1yo, I walked around the house one naptime and selected toys/activities to be put away for "school time" only use, and listed them. Check out the "schedules" link at the top of the main board, that has good ideas as well. Also, if you search for "toddler" in the main board there are some good ideas for activities to occupy them as well.

My 16mo has what we call "happy roaming time" first thing after breakfast, where she is content to wander amongst us, *and* not be destructive. This is when my son does his math (with me for the first 5-10m) and handwriting and empties the dishwasher with me nearby. I am cleaning the kitchen, moving laundry, and doing one other rotating chore. 4yo plays by herself or with 1yo.
Next, 1yo plays in her crib with a rotating selection of toys that have been hidden in her closet for just this time. She listens to music and does fine for 30-40 minutes. If your 2yo can't do this, I highly recommend training him to do so, starting with 5 min and working up from there - it makes all the difference! During this time I do "school" with 4yo, phonics, math, read a book, and if there's an easy messy project for the day (painting, gluing) I leave her doing that while I get a snack ready.
Next we get 1yo out and do "songs for Stephanie" all together (itsy bitsy spider, head, shoulders knees and toes etc.), which includes Bible verse memorization and some therapy exercises.
Next is a snack where I read the Beyond reading about history reading, and everyone's mouths are somewhat quiet ;-)
After snack, I put a dvd on for 1yo, Baby Einstein or Toddler Tunes etc, and the girls watch and play in the playroom for 30-45min while I do Beyond's Language Arts, ds reads aloud to me, and sometimes the rotating box. If it's something that 4yo would enjoy, we save it for after lunch.
Then I read to the 1yo for a while, and then they play while I tidy up and make lunch, and I eat.
At lunch I read the Beyond storytime and poetry. Again, mouths are generally quiet:)
When the baby takes her afternoon nap, we do the rotating activity box if it didn't get done earlier, and I read to 4yo. We do extras then too, alternating Spanish and astronomy. I exercise, take the kids out to our pool, and *sometimes* the older 2 have quiet time before 1yo wakes up :lol:

This is the goal, of course, and rarely does it run like clockwork, but it helps to know what we are all supposed to be doing at different points in the day... For us, it works best to do as much as possible while everyone is at their best in the morning. Once they get tired, my dc just don't function well for "school" activities. HTH :D

Re: At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:29 pm
by my3sons
Well, first days are not often best days, so I want to encourage you that it does get easier as dc get into a routine. :D Usually it's the littlest one that can really cause some chaos - at least it has always been that way at our house when we've had a 2 yo! :D Making a schedule of routine things for the toddler to do was of GREAT benefit to all of us. I tried to change the things the toddler was doing every 30 minutes or so. Here are some great threads on this topic, which lets you know you are not alone in the need to plan for this age...
What to do with toddlers while schooling:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=198&p=33557
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4987&p=36744#p36744

Another help was to train each of the dc to have a playtime with the toddler. When my 5 turning 6 yo played with my 2 turning 3 yo, I had snack and juice time be part of the playtime. :D Having a safe area for them to be helped immensely. I actually gated off the entryway (we have a pretty big one, as far as entryways go :wink: ) and lined the wall with a shelf full of just toddler's toys. They were within reach of me, but not so close I could hear their every noise. :D

Using teaching blocks of time really helps me teach multiple guides. Everyone knows what they are doing then, and who has my attention. Having a definite start time, having a schedule with approximate times, and having a routine order of doing the boxes helps too. Having a time when I am focusing just on the toddler to do some teaching (I utilized LHTH half-speed for this purpose) helps too. I did allow my toddler to watch a 30-45 minute video as well, and made sure to work with another child within earshot but far enough away that the child I was working with couldn't see the video. :D Here is a schedules' thread that is very helpful, and my schedule is on the last page of it, in case that would help...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2093

All of these types of things take some training, and a good deal of patience on our part as mamas, I must say. :wink: BUT, they are so worth the training as they make the day flow smoothly. :D I give my dc that can read a copy of the schedule in a fold in clear plastic sleeves, and I use a timer to begin with to help them (and me) know about how long things should take. Here are the links to those time allotments....

LHFHG time it takes:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4244&p=31219#p31219
Beyond, time it takes:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=162
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4390&p=32417

HTH! :D
In Christ,
Julie

Re: At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:51 pm
by Tree House Academy
I would have to do school at separate times with two that were not independent at all. I run two guides, but my older son who just finished CTC, basically taught himself this year. There was very little required of me and our days ran smoothly because he did his independent work while I schooled my younger one in Beyond and then I finished with ds in CTC.

In your case, I would probably do shifts. You can set this up in whatever way is best for you all - i.e. if your oldest child plays better with the baby, then have your middle child do school with Little Hearts first. Luckily, Little Hearts does not take an extreme amount of time to finish each day either! Then, give everyone time to play. Let them eat lunch, and put the 2y/o down for a nap. While (s)he is napping (or having rest time in his/her room), the middle child would be in his/her room reading, resting, etc. and you could school the older child with Beyond.

With Beyond, you definitely want to work toward developing some independence through the year too. My younger son started the year last fall with Beyond being totally dependant on me. By year's end, he did poetry copywork and phonics on his own. He was also able to do parts of his spelling, math, and DITHR on his own.

Re: At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:29 pm
by alydar
Thank you ladies so very much for your thoughtful replies. :D I read all the posts (several times!) and have gotten some ideas I think may work. I also followed the link to the schedules thread and found a wealth of ideas there as well.

Today was much better. This is what I did. We have a nice desk in DH's and my bedroom that was doing nothing but being a catch-all. So I cleared it off, put the necessary materials for each guide there along with pencils, erasers, markers, etc. The plan was that each child could do their seat work there instead of the kitchen table or bar. It would provide them a MUCH quieter place to work. Then we could get comfy on my bed to do History readings, DS's read aloud, Bible studies for both, etc. So the work space was staged and ready and worked perfectly.

Next, after messing around on paper quite a bit I figured out a loose routine to follow. Can't write anything in stone around here - things are guaranteed not to follow any plan I have in mind. :lol: So what we did was to have DD5 and DS2 play upstairs after breakfast while DS7 and I started HIstory, the rotating box, Bible, and Read Aloud. Then a break for him. But he has to help with the 2 year old. Grab DD5 and start chipping away at what we didn't get to yesterday (going 1/2 speed with Little Hearts). Do a few items of business with her then give her a break. Snack for everyone while I read DS7's storytime book. Then do poetry with him and get him set up for copywork and also to look over his spelling words. Meanwhile, I do DD's storytime. Back to DS to do Spelling and Math. Then finish DD up with her math and reading. Whew!! Done!! :D

Basically, whoever wasn't doing school was responsible for helping out with the toddler and keeping quiet. No TV or computer during the hours of school either. That made it much easier to pull them back into their studies after a break.

There's lots of tweaking that needs to be done but I think I'm on a better track today than yesterday or the day before thanks to you all. I was even able to get the toddler entertained here and there with a few things so he wouldn't disrupt as badly. I'd love to be able to add in some extras to our day (like a 2nd language, music, etc. but we'll work on that slowly. :wink:

Oh! and on the schedules thread I found the idea of using a dry erase board to list the things that each child needed to accomplish for the day. That way they can see where they are and what they need to do and get to check off each item as it's finished. DS7 was always asking "What else do I have to do?" "When are we going to be done??" (insert a little whine with that :P) Great idea for us!! I'd love to do the magnets as was done by the OP of that idea - they'd think that would be super cool! :D

So, a big THANK YOU for your ideas, support, and prayers. It all worked! :D :D :D This community is such a blessing!! :D :D :D

Re: At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:41 pm
by 8arrows
I am so glad your day went better today! I was sad for you yesterday. You are so right--the ladies on this board are wonderful. I always leave encouraged.

Re: At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:50 pm
by Carrie
Whitney,

The ladies are giving you terrific advice! I'm so glad to read your update, as we must have been posting at the same time. So, I'll still just post what I had planned, in the hopes that it may still be of some use to you or someone else! :D

:D I agree that schooling with a 2 year old (or any toddler) can be very interesting! :D It will be even more important to figure out a routine for that particular child than it is to schedule your older two. This is because a 2 year old can make the best laid schedule come apart at the seams very quickly. :D

So, with that in mind, I would begin the schedule thinking of how to keep the 2-3 year old moving from thing to thing every 20-30 min. I would take time to truly train that child with his/her schedule, as this will make your school day go so much better! This can be done in stages, so don't get overwhelmed with my post below as it just full of ideas that you can gradually consider doing whichever ones might work for you! Just think that anything you do for your 2-3 year old will really pay off! :D I'll combine some of my previous posts below of things we've done with our schedule for our little ones at that age, and you can see what might work for you. :D

A few things that we've done that may be of help to you as you ponder your 2-3 year old's day are as follows:
We usually let our little ones sleep later in the morning and get up when they wake up. This means we do two shifts for breakfast as the older boys do get up and get started on time. The little ones eat when they come down. We make oatmeal and leave it on warm on the stove, as it can be eaten easily anytime. Our other breakfast is eggs in the microwave that the boys make on their own. Just crack one-two eggs in a microwave safe cereal bowl, stir, microwave and add a touch of salt or shredded cheese when they're done. We add yogurt and peanut butter toast and breakfast is a quick affair. :D This allows us to eat in shifts as needed. Our meals where we typically sit down together to eat as more as family are lunch and dinner. :D

Another thing that helps is for us to start the 2 or 3 year old early on his/her lunch. The little ones are usually hungry earlier than the older ones, so having them begin eating early is helpful. It buys me about 20 min. more work time with my other children. We usually work right at the table where the little one is eating, so that child feels a part of what we're doing, but is happily engaged. :D Once the little one finishes eating, he/she is happier as we read aloud with the others at lunch and is more willing to either go play or play with cupboard toys while the rest of the kiddos are eating. :D

I often read aloud at lunch to my kiddos when they are all eating, as full mouths are quiet mouths (and their minds are listening)! :D

Another wonderful thing that is well worth doing is to clear out a lower cabinet in your kitchen and stock it with just your 2-3 year old's toys. I only allowed my 2-3 year old to have one toy at a time out of the cupboard. We placed child protectors on the cabinet doors to enforce this. Then, I filled the cabinet with all sorts of quiet items that the 2-5 year old could get out (one at a time) and play with quietly at the table or on the floor by the cabinet. Often my boys spent much time just getting one thing out and putting away, so they could get the next thing out of the cabinet. The rule was only one item out at a time, and it must be put away prior to getting out the next item. :D This easily took 25-30 min. and can be used anytime you need it. Many days my son just spent a lot of time taking out one toy, scattering it on the floor, picking it up, putting it away, and getting out another one (which is great for fine motor muscle building and for practicing the skill of picking up)! We did put child protectors on the cupboard doors, which my son could open, but it slowed him down and kept him from just unloading the cabinet. We tried to put the toys in the cabinet that had many pieces in storage boxes WITH LIDS. This kept my son busy every morning, again in the afternoon, and in the evening. It is still the first thing he heads for when he comes downstairs, as he knows it is his. We also have a playroom with his toys, but for years he often only ever wanted what was in the cabinet. :D

Some examples of inexpensive things to place in the cabinet for a 2 year old that you may already have on hand would be a bucket of cars, a lidded container with macaroni noodles and a measuring cup, play food that he can cut or put together, a can of tennis balls with a lid, a container with a tweezers and small objects to pick up with the tweezers (like small pieces of yarn), a Cheerio book if you have one (where kiddos put the Cheerios on the openings in each page, if no Cheerio book make your own using coloring book pages and drawing circles where your kiddo should place the Cheerios (and then eat them), a container with trains and a track in it, a magnadoodle, anything he can pound like a ball pounder, an empty egg carton with a big button or other object in each slot (make sure they're not a choking hazard though), colored cups with a small container of legos chosen to be the same color as the cups (sort the colored legos into the matching cup), a lidded tub filled with stuffed toys, a container of megablocks, possibly some tractors or other vehicles, etc. :D

Toys for a 3 or 4 year old could have smaller parts and more involved steps like simple puzzles, possibly playdough or moon dough, large gears, objects for sorting, alphabet letters, foam blocks, large tangram shapes, a dry erase marker board and low odor marker (only when supervised :wink:, stacking cups, nesting boxes or other things that nest, large lacing beads, snap cubes, patterning cards,etc. :D

Another help for a two year old is highchair time. This usually buys about 15 min. We tried to have a highchair time each day for our kiddos when they were that age. We also attempted a playpen time and a play at the table time each day. Here's just a few ideas we used in the past for our highchair time for our busy, busy boys at that age: :D

1. Save the plastic eggs that snap together from Easter and place a Cheerio or other edible object inside each one. Then, have the child open and eat them, or if possible have the child put the object in and then take it out.

2. Do paint with water books in the high chair. Tear one page out of the book and tape it to the high chair tray. Give the child a small plastic container of water (flatter is better than taller, so it doesn't tip) and a paintbrush to paint on the water, and watch the colors appear on the paint with water page. Often the paper ended up so saturated, you couldn't see the picture but the time it gave me was worth it!

3. Cheerio books you can get at almost any book store. These have an indented spot to place a Cheerio in on each page creating a scene. We bought them for our first son (who is now a freshman) and have had them for each child ever since. These work great in the high chair as well. Simply give the child a small cup of Cheerios to place on each page, reusing the Cheerios as they go. Then at the end they can eat them (or eat as they go sometimes too.)

4. Tape a white piece of paper to the highchair tray and sprinkle a bit of kool-aid or Crystal light powder on the page. Then give the child a paintbrush and some water and let them paint the powder.

5. Give the child a singing book to look at while in the highchair. Ours have the buttons you can push down the side and sing different songs or make noises.

6. Try having the child look at a pile of lift-the-flap books with very large flaps while in the high chair. Some of my boys liked this better than others!

7. Use dot paint markers. These markers have paint inside them and make paint dots on paper when pressed down. Just tape a paper to the high chair and let them dot away! Make sure the paint is washable though, as they often dot the tray and themselves!

8. Magnetic train cars to push around on the highchair tray work well if you happen to have any of those. Each of our boys have loved these.

9. Sometimes a combination works too. Start with one highchair item and when the child is finished do another one. We tried for 15-20 min. in the highchair at a time mid-morning.

Playpen/Crib/or Room Time is another great help. When the toddler is doing this is typically when I do the left side of LHFHG or Beyond all in one sitting (as it takes about 30 min. to do the left side). :D One idea from Managers of Their Homes that I really liked and used was the Mommy Tape or CD. I recorded myself reading short Bible stories, nursery rhymes, counting, saying the names of family members, singing short little songs like "Jesus Loves Me" etc. to last 1/2 hour. I said my little one's name over and over all throughout the tape, like I was talking to him. I played it every day while my little one had time in his room with his toys (we do that time in his crib for safety reasons). :D When the tape ends, the child knows the time is up. We also used this during playpen time when he was younger. Playpen time amounted to a singing tape/CD with toys in the playpen. My boys were required to stay in the playpen for 20-30 min. at that age. When they outgrew the playpen, we moved it to time in the child's crib. Then, later we began assigning an older child to play with the younger one during that time instead. Once the child was not such a danger to himself, we switched this time to being playtime alone in his room. This happens around age 4 at our house. :D

Another thing to consider is having an older child play with the younger child. We required the kiddos to play in one room for that time. I rotated the room by day, once the older child was responsible enough to be out of my sight with the younger one. For time with another child at this age, we had the older child have an assigned card with an order in which to do things with the younger child. The card for each day usually included some of the following: :D
1. Read two board books to the child.
2. Do 1 or more fingerplays with the child. ( I had a list and taught the older child how to do them.)
3. Walk around with the child in the house and point to and name 10 objects, having the younger child repeat back the name of each object.
4. Count from 1 on up to... (whatever is most appropriate) with the child, having the child repeat each number after the older one says it.
5. Sit on the floor and roll a soft air-filled ball back and forth. Then, stand and bounce it back and forth. Last, gently throw the ball back and forth.
6. Stand back and toss beanbags or rolled up socks into a laundry basket.
7. Follow along in a book with an audio book while having the younger child sit next to the older child or on his/her lap.
8. Play with an assigned toy. (I assigned a different toy to each day, so the older child knew what to play and where to play it.)
I also have assigned an older child to sit and do educational computer time with my kiddos aged 3 or 4 and help and guide them, so this is an option as your toddler gets older. :D

For our younger boys, we also have had table time, which is similar to the cabinet idea but gives another thing for a 2 year old to do each day. This is where we have used 5 different tubs (that slid under my bed for storage when not in use). We numbered the tubs Day 1, Day 2, Day , Day 4, and Day 5. Each day we took out a different tub and the boys had to play with the items in the tub. I just placed things in each tub that we already had on hand. By placing them in the tub to only come out once each week, the items seemed new and exciting. Then, if anyone ever gave us something new, I placed it in a tub. Tub items included puzzles, books, toys, short books on tape/CD, etc. We set the timer and required the boys to play with the items in the tub for 20 min. at this age. :D

Once the younger child is 3 or 4, I have scheduled an older one to do computer with the younger one, sitting by to aid and talk through the preschool type educational computer CD's (like Jump Start or Reader Rabbit toddler or preschool). :D

Last, I've found that if I schedule some time to be one-on-one for 10-15 min. with my little one, early on or mid-way through the morning, then he is more willing to go play on his own. Even reading a book or singing a couple of songs with him will give him that one on one time. :D

You can see that as much planning goes into the 2-3 year old's day as goes into any part of HOD! There is also much training there too! But it pays off big dividends in your year all year! :D

Blessings,
Carrie

Re: At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:53 pm
by mamas4bugs
YAY!!! I'm so glad today was better! Sounds like you have a very workable plan in motion. :)

Re: At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:19 pm
by kewkew34
I have really enjoyed reading the responses to this question. One of my big concerns is how to schedule the children's day if we start HOD next spring. This last year and a half I have actually been working with both children together while we do the letter of the week. Amelia needed more help with projects though she has advanced quite a bit this year and is doing almost everything independently as she approaches her 3rd birthday. It has been a little harder to figure out what to do with the "baby." While she was younger it was easier because she wasn't getting into everything. Now that she is walking she is getting into everything. I've actually started waiting til she is napping to have a "lesson time." Other times I do give her paper and crayons or a pencil. I have made her some activities, (balls into a tissue box with holes I cut out, straws into holes in the top of a Gerber puffs container), she will sit in her walker or her booster seat or I will hold her. But it doesn't hold her attention long enough. Other times I am blessed to have my hubby home to watch her. He is an LPN who works nights

I am so glad I read this thread though. I was so unsure of how to work next year as it will be the first time the older 2 aren't working together. I am planning on starting Tabitha in LHFHG, but Amelia isn't going to be ready. And after that we will be in two guides.

Re: At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:43 pm
by Mercy
Carrie,

These ideas are soooo great!!! Thank you so much for taking the time to post this!! So many creative and organized ways to help little ones have an enjoyable day. :D

Love, love these ideas!!!!!
Mercy

Re: At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:22 am
by countrymom
I see you have received lots of responses and I am sure some great ideas. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but it might be very helpful to begin one week with just one child and spend a week with them getting used to the guide and really helping them see what is expected, then spend a week with just the other child. With the child in Beyond you will probably find a few little things that can be done independently or semi-independently and identify those things with the child. Even with your child in Little Hearts it will help just to get the routine down with the child. She can learn how to get the supplies out and put them away etc. After you have had your week of one-on-one with each child, then you might have a little easier time finding that flow and schedule.

Re: At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:45 am
by MomtoJGJE
I'll second what countrymom said. It's so much easier to stagger their beginning while getting used to one guide instead of just jumping in to all of it at one time. Or at least start off half speed.

I do school separately with my kids. If the 2yo goes up to play I'll go through as much of the reading with my oldest as possible. Then I move on to explaining her ind. work. Then I'll do LHTH with the 4yo or part of LHFHG with the 6yo while the 2yo is playing with the other one if we have that option. I save the Fingerplay or Rhyme in Motion for when the baby is antsy and any other dramatic stuff. Then when my oldest is done she plays with the 2yo and I finish up with the others.

We are more than halfway through now and it rarely takes us more than 2.5 hours total to do all three guides. Do not lose heart ;)

Re: At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:23 pm
by deltagal
A wonderful thread. So many good things to be thinking about. I have a 16 month old, who is rapidly approaching the busy, busy toddler stage. It seems that my strategy has been somewhat different with each child depending on the stage of life we are in as a family. In this season, I'm planning to get my toddler up before everyone else. This will give me time with her and I can easily supervise her play, before the whirlwind begins. Then the children can each enjoy her as they get up and begin their day. She will also have a late morning nap which goes into the early afternoon and will give me time to work with everyone else. When she wakes up she'll have lunch, go for a walk, and then join me as I do the afternoon shuffle of grocery, library, errands, football practice, etc. This is her schedule currently and it seems to be working well for all of us. I've always adjusted the children's naps to suit my schedule and give them the rest they need. It seems to work.

Re: At a loss - please, any help appreciated!

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:43 am
by my3sons
deltagal wrote:...It seems that my strategy has been somewhat different with each child depending on the stage of life we are in as a family...
This is an excellent point! :D My strategy has also been different depending on the makeup of the rest of the family. :D

In Christ,
Julie