heartofdakota.com

Posted: **Sat May 28, 2011 10:46 am**

I emailed Carrie but, understandably, she is too busy to answer emails this time of year. I was directed to the message board for help. The following is the email I sent:

My name is Ann and I am homeschooling my 12 year old son and 8 year old daughter. I've been looking at HOD for two years now and I'm finally ready to jump in. We've dabbled with Sonlight and have never finished a core. I've tried to put my own program together and we have used Mystery of History and SOTW. I've been reading all the HOD threads on The Well Trained Mind forums and I think it may be my answer. I really need help deciding where to place my children.

I think my main problem is that I have neglected Language Arts skills. My son is an avid reader and has read "Musashi" and "Taiko" by Eiji Yoshikawa, "Mere Christianity", "Pilgrim's Progress", "The Art of War" and is starting "War and Peace". He can discuss all these books in detail but asking him to write a paragraph about any of them would produce tears. He is great with oral narration and can retell anything I read to him or he has read. He resisted cursive for two years but is finally able to write in cursive and quite beautifully at that. He writes very slowly, so I am dreading dictation.

My daughter is similar in that she is an avid reader, reading well above grade level, but her language arts skills are much better. I am able to use First Language Lessons level 3 and Writing With Ease 3 with her.

I would like to keep the two of them together if possible. I have ADD and am terribly disorganized. I don't think I could manage two programs at once. I was considering either Preparing or Creation to Christ. I am worried about the book choices being too easy for my son in Preparing, although the LA in preparing is probably what he needs. Also, where would I place them in DITHOR?

I hope you can help! I need to get them on track. I am praying that Heart of Dakota is the answer!

Posted: **Sat May 28, 2011 11:04 am**

Welcome!

The first thing that everyone is going to tell you to do is to print off 2 copies of the placement chart, one for each child, and to go through it thinking only of that child, circling their placements.

I would like to encourage you that while your child may read, understand, and love War and Peace, that doesn't mean that every book he reads needs to be at that level.

HOD is sooo much more than just reading. The skills taught are incremental, and cover a wide range beyond just reading and even comprehension. I would NOT start an 8 year old in CTC for this reason.

If you feel the history readings are too "easy" in whichever program your children fit in skills wise, I wouldn't worry about it. They will still learn tons from those books (I learn tons from these books

), and if you use Drawn Into the Heart of Reading for their reading program, you get to choose your own books, so their higher reading level books could come into play there.

HOD is so much fun and the kids learn so much! Welcome, again!

Posted: **Sat May 28, 2011 12:33 pm**

Well, my 8.5 yo dd places in Preparing for everything. My son, however, places in RtoR for reading, but for writing he places in between Preparing and CtC and for grammar he is definitely in Preparing.

I guess I don't understand why on the chart that reading is more important than writing and grammar? Isn't it easier to go with a lower level of reading because one can always add to or delve deeper into a book? But writing, narrations, dictations and grammar would be much harder to adjust. So, I'm wondering why more weight is placed on Reading than Writing, Grammar and Mechanics & Usage?

I'm leaning towards Preparing for both dc since my dd places perfectly and my ds most likely would have a hard time with any written assignment in CtC.

Posted: **Sat May 28, 2011 12:53 pm**

If you go with Preparing for both you could get the extension set for your son since he is above in reading and likes it

. We did that last year with Preparing when my sons were 8 and 11.

Posted: **Sat May 28, 2011 5:01 pm**

I don't think reading is considered more important than the writing or grammar. I know it's listed first, but I think all of the skills on the first page are considered pretty important. As I read through your initial post, I was thinking Preparing or CTC for your ds especially so he could get the basics of writing under his belt. Since he is older and such a great reader, he could easily do the extensions in Preparing. It sounds like Preparing would be great for your dd too so it sounds like it would be a great place to start your journey in HOD.

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2011 5:15 pm**

Hi Ann, and welcome to the HOD Board!

Thank you for sharing about each of your dc, and it seems like you have 2 good options here.

Option 1, you could do PHFHG with the 2 of them, and add the extensions for your older ds. If you do this, you would go into it knowing that the readings would be easier for him, but that the writing would be just right and a stepping stone to helping him grow in this area.

Option 2, you could do PHFHG with your 8 yo and CTC with your 12 yo. This would have your 12 yo doing more independently (i.e. all of his history reading), and would have him doing more writing.

I believe either option is a good one, depending on which you prefer. One thought I had, you could begin with PHFHG with extensions, and if after a month you felt like ds could handle the upped writing in CTC and would be more appropriately placed there, you could then just move him into CTC.

As far as DITHOR, I would start your 8 yo in Level 2/3 of DITHOR. For your 12 yo, has he had literature study before, with genres and story elements (i.e analyzing character and plot development, setting, problem/solution, compare/contrast, etc.)? If not, I believe I'd start him in one year of Level 4/5 and then do Level 6/7/8 the following year. Also, the amount of writing in DITHOR 4/5 is less than in DITHOR 6/7/8.

But those are just my thoughts, what are you thinking now? You'll find this board to be full of encouraging ladies, and I think you'll find HOD to be a lovely way to go about homeschooling!

Our family has been incredibly blessed by it, and we have found our days to be full of joy and delightful learning with Christ at the center. Welcome to HOD - I think you'll love it!

In Christ,
Julie

Posted: **Tue May 31, 2011 12:39 pm**

Ann,

Thanks so much for your patience in hearing back from us! I'm so glad that you posted on the board and that the ladies are helping you talk through things.

One reason why reading will be very important, along with all language arts skills, especially as you get into our guides from CTC on up, is that the child will be reading his/her own history and science books. So, it is very important that the child is able to read the level of books that are found within that particular guide. In very special cases, such as kiddos with specific reading disorders, the parent may read aloud to the child. But, the guides are designed from CTC on up for the child to be doing his or her own history and science reading. This is because it takes a whole different set of skills for a child to read his own history and science material than it does for the child to listen to that same material being read aloud. It is also much more difficult to read a history or science book than it is to read for pleasure. The vocabulary, sentence structure, and reading level is much higher in history and science books, and these types of books also require a higher level of comprehension to understand what is being read.

With this in mind, I'm wondering if your older son has done his history and science readings on his own in the past, or whether you have been using the read-aloud method for him in these areas? This will make a big difference in where he will place best. With his age level in mind, it is likely time for him to move toward doing this on his own, if he hasn't already.

This would then give you time to work on the important areas of grammar and writing instruction that he is needing.

You also mentioned that writing is hard for your son. I'm wondering if the physical act of writing is tough for him, or if he just has a harder time with the writing process? For example, Is your son able to do copywork of several sentences up to a paragraph without challenge, meaning the physical act of writing isn't hard. Or, is this also a challenge? This will also make a difference in where he will fit skill-wise in our guides.

One other important area to ponder is whether or not your oldest is able to read and follow written directions on his own and work independently. Reading and following lengthy written directions is another skill that takes time to develop, and it is such an important one in preparation for higher level learning. So, this is another area that will make a big difference when we're weighing your son and daughter would fit best.

If you get a chance to pop back and share a bit more about where your son fits in the areas mentioned above, we'll have a much better idea of where he fits best.

This will allow us to fine-tune your options a bit more.

Blessings,
Carrie

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:52 pm**

Hi Carrie,

Thank you for taking the time to help me! I have been looking over the samples for PHFHG and CtC, praying and asking questions on the message board and I am really leaning towards CtC for my 12 yo son. Originally I wanted to keep my 8.5 yo dd and my ds together, but I think they need to be separated. They are in constant competition with each other and they bicker. If I can afford it, I think Preparing would be great for my dd. She places in Preparing for everything on the Placement Chart. And I think CtC with my ds. I just hope two guides won't be too much for my ADD brain

One more thought I had is that if CtC is too much for him, I could use Preparing with him. He NEEDS as much biblical foundation and Christian character study as I can squeeze in in the next 6 or so years. When I read over the Guide sample that I printed out for CtC the bible portion just spoke to my heart! My ds had just been asking me about Noah!

Carrie, If you feel CtC is over his head in terms of skills I will take that into consideration. I think that he is PROBABLY capable of doing the work but we've bounced around from curriculum to curriculum so much that I've neglected a lot. Once I get him into the habit of doing something, he is okay with it. He is just resistant to anything new no matter what it is.

Thank you again!

Ann

Carrie wrote:Ann,

Thanks so much for your patience in hearing back from us! I'm so glad that you posted on the board and that the ladies are helping you talk through things.

One reason why reading will be very important, along with all language arts skills, especially as you get into our guides from CTC on up, is that the child will be reading his/her own history and science books. So, it is very important that the child is able to read the level of books that are found within that particular guide. In very special cases, such as kiddos with specific reading disorders, the parent may read aloud to the child. But, the guides are designed from CTC on up for the child to be doing his or her own history and science reading. This is because it takes a whole different set of skills for a child to read his own history and science material than it does for the child to listen to that same material being read aloud. It is also much more difficult to read a history or science book than it is to read for pleasure. The vocabulary, sentence structure, and reading level is much higher in history and science books, and these types of books also require a higher level of comprehension to understand what is being read.

With this in mind, I'm wondering if your older son has done his history and science readings on his own in the past, or whether you have been using the read-aloud method for him in these areas? This will make a big difference in where he will place best. With his age level in mind, it is likely time for him to move toward doing this on his own, if he hasn't already. This would then give you time to work on the important areas of grammar and writing instruction that he is needing.

He is definitely reading history and science on his own as well as literature. I either have him orally narrate what he's read or I will ask questions to make sure comprehension is where it should be. When it comes to reading, his mind is like a steel trap even for books he has no interest in.!

You also mentioned that writing is hard for your son. I'm wondering if the physical act of writing is tough for him, or if he just has a harder time with the writing process? For example, Is your son able to do copywork of several sentences up to a paragraph without challenge, meaning the physical act of writing isn't hard. Or, is this also a challenge? This will also make a difference in where he will fit skill-wise in our guides.

Well, both, but more the physical act of writing than putting thoughts into words. He can come up with about 5-7 sentences on his own, but he is resistant. He also writes very slowly. He LOVES to lecture about whatever his current interests may be, right now it's Japan during the feudal period.

One other important area to ponder is whether or not your oldest is able to read and follow written directions on his own and work independently. Reading and following lengthy written directions is another skill that takes time to develop, and it is such an important one in preparation for higher level learning. So, this is another area that will make a big difference when we're weighing your son and daughter would fit best.

My thoughts are that he will need handholding for a few weeks but he will catch on ...... I hope

If you get a chance to pop back and share a bit more about where your son fits in the areas mentioned above, we'll have a much better idea of where he fits best. This will allow us to fine-tune your options a bit more.

Blessings,
Carrie

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:16 pm**

my3sons wrote:Hi Ann, and welcome to the HOD Board! Thank you for sharing about each of your dc, and it seems like you have 2 good options here. Option 1, you could do PHFHG with the 2 of them, and add the extensions for your older ds. If you do this, you would go into it knowing that the readings would be easier for him, but that the writing would be just right and a stepping stone to helping him grow in this area.

Option 2, you could do PHFHG with your 8 yo and CTC with your 12 yo. This would have your 12 yo doing more independently (i.e. all of his history reading), and would have him doing more writing.

I believe either option is a good one, depending on which you prefer. One thought I had, you could begin with PHFHG with extensions, and if after a month you felt like ds could handle the upped writing in CTC and would be more appropriately placed there, you could then just move him into CTC.

I had the same thought, only start him in CtC and if it is too much, put him in PHFHG w/extensions . I really want him separate from his sister and I feel the particular biblical focus of CtC is what my ds needs. He is struggling with belief and faith and I feel this is the direction we need to go. What are your thoughts?

As far as DITHOR, I would start your 8 yo in Level 2/3 of DITHOR. For your 12 yo, has he had literature study before, with genres and story elements (i.e analyzing character and plot development, setting, problem/solution, compare/contrast, etc.)? If not, I believe I'd start him in one year of Level 4/5 and then do Level 6/7/8 the following year. Also, the amount of writing in DITHOR 4/5 is less than in DITHOR 6/7/8.

He hasn't had any formal literature study, so I think that is a great idea to start him out with one year of DITHOR 4/5. My 8 yo dd will be 9 in January, do you still think I should use Level 2/3 with her?

But those are just my thoughts, what are you thinking now? You'll find this board to be full of encouraging ladies, and I think you'll find HOD to be a lovely way to go about homeschooling! Our family has been incredibly blessed by it, and we have found our days to be full of joy and delightful learning with Christ at the center. Welcome to HOD - I think you'll love it!

I am sooooo excited to start HOD! I can not tell you how blessed I have been JUST by the wonderful ladies on this board! I can't imagine the blessings to come when we start HOD! It sure says a lot about you and Carrie and HOD!

In Christ,
Julie

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:19 pm**

Ann, I have one of those ADD brains too. I really wanted to keep all three of my kids together, but it just isn't gong to happen. We will be starting two guides in the fall. One thing that really helped me was looking at Julie's (My3sons)schedule. It helped me work out what everyone should be doing at a particular time. For example 9:00 DS1 does history with mom while DS2 and DD do morning chores. 9:30 DS1 does morning chores while DS2 and DD do Bible with mom. 10:00 DS1 does copy work, while DS2 and DD work on handwriting with Mom. I just went through every box in the guides and decided who would be doing what when. I created a chart in excel and posted it on our fridge, because I WILL forget. We did a trial run, and it went so smooth. If you decide on two guides, you will be able to do it!

Tracy

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:28 pm**

Tracee wrote:Ann, I have one of those ADD brains too. I really wanted to keep all three of my kids together, but it just isn't gong to happen. We will be starting two guides in the fall. One thing that really helped me was looking at Julie's (My3sons)schedule. It helped me work out what everyone should be doing at a particular time. For example 9:00 DS1 does history with mom while DS2 and DD do morning chores. 9:30 DS1 does morning chores while DS2 and DD do Bible with mom. 10:00 DS1 does copy work, while DS2 and DD work on handwriting with Mom. I just went through every box in the guides and decided who would be doing what when. I created a chart in excel and posted it on our fridge, because I WILL forget. We did a trial run, and it went so smooth. If you decide on two guides, you will be able to do it!

Tracy

Tracy - thank you for the encouragement! I started looking through the "schedules" thread but it made me feel very inferior

I'll get up my courage and see if I can glean some insight from others' schedules

Ann

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:01 pm**

You've gotten some awesome advice so far Ann, I just wanted to say that I understand fully what you mean about needing to separate the children. It took me quite a while to see past my desire to combine for simplicity to see the beauty in giving each child their own level to succeed at. Mine are also quite competitive! It wasn't until I had our guides in my hands (we'll be starting off with 3!

) that I was able to give thanks that this was the road the Lord was leading us to for this season. Knowing where each of my children are and seeing the assignments and activities in each guide were truly going to meet them where they are and bring them up was so comforting even if it means a tad longer of a day for us.

Praying that the Lord continues to make clear the path he has for your family in this coming season!!

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:26 pm**

leimarie wrote:You've gotten some awesome advice so far Ann, I just wanted to say that I understand fully what you mean about needing to separate the children. It took me quite a while to see past my desire to combine for simplicity to see the beauty in giving each child their own level to succeed at. Mine are also quite competitive! It wasn't until I had our guides in my hands (we'll be starting off with 3! ) that I was able to give thanks that this was the road the Lord was leading us to for this season. Knowing where each of my children are and seeing the assignments and activities in each guide were truly going to meet them where they are and bring them up was so comforting even if it means a tad longer of a day for us.

Praying that the Lord continues to make clear the path he has for your family in this coming season!!

Leimarie- Thank you!

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:24 pm**

Carrie and/or Julie, I hope you see this!

I looked at PHFHG and CtC again. My first thoughts about CtC is that it is PERFECT for my ds because "Genesis: Finding Our Roots", "The Story of the Ancient World", "What in the World Vol. 1", the Streams of History books and "Dinosaurs by Design" are fact based and not fictional. I think they are just what he needs to lead him to salvation, or at least on the path. I feel confident about everything in CtC EXCEPT language arts. The LA in PHFHG is perfect for him, but I don't think PHFHG is where I should put him. If I bought both programs, could I do all but the LA in CtC with him and the do the LA from PHFHG instead? Or maybe a mix of the two LA's?

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:06 am**

Ann,
The guides work with any LA program you choose. So if you were wanting to do the LA scheduled in Preparing you could certainly do that. Which Rod and Staff are you thinking that you should do with your son? Both Rod and Staff level 3 and 4 are options to use in preparing and then for CTC the options are level 4 and 5. So if you felt he fit level 4, that is already an option in CTC. If you feel he would do better in level 3, you could just do a lesson a day, without having to purchase the Preparing guide just for the LA (or look at the number of lessons and schedule it accoriding to how many days you are going to school)

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