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I have a few questions about doing multiple levels with different children in the same year. My oldest dd is 11- working on 6th grade material (behind in math, but advanced in reading). My 2nd oldest is 9 and working on 4th grade (these grades are for next year). My twins are 6 and I plan to work Kindergarten/1st grade level- and i hope to include my 4yods somewhat here (we worked preschool together). The 20 month old and newborn arriving in June will not be working with us LOL.

Looking the plans over, and from our experience this past year, I think I would split the girls up- placing my oldest in CTC (I would place her in Res to Ref but I don't want to skip the CTC time period with her, and I think CTC will be enough for her). My next oldest would Preparing. My twins would do Little Hearts.

I am concerend (very concerned) about how much time this is going to take in a day. I get pictures in my head of me getting nothing done but reading aloud non stop, and teaching/instructing school all day long. I loved our last 2 yrs with HOD- when I had my 2 oldest dd's together. For the most part, I never did use a teacher's manual/plan with the littles, just added in worksheets and such for them. I am worried I would drag my feet about doing their level.

I can kinda see how little hearts and preparing are both an overview of history- do you think the littlers could just listen in to my 2nd dd's read alouds? We read chapter books to them at bedtime- and I could let them color during the reading? This could save me a little bit of time? Could I possibly switch off doing one dd's read aloud one week, and a read aloud from the other dd's another week (having all the children listen to the given read aloud?) That seems to make less sense because oldest dd is covering a time period in depth and therefore the others would be on a different era.....

I am really concerned that we cannot accomplish 8-9 hrs of school per day with the olders, and the 90 min I think it is for the youngers-- that could be over 10 hrs of school in a day!

How do you make multiple levels work?
Brenda

In the "Let's Share Our Schedule's" sticky at the top of this board, there are many posts where people share their schedules. On page one you will find Julie's with 3 guides and on page 2 you will find Carrie's with 4 guides. I am short on time but can get the link when I am back from meetings. With both CTC and Preparing, your children would have independent work. You want a schedule where you are rotating between guides with one child doing independent work and you working with the other. Little Hearts shouldn't be too hard to put in there as well. The good news is it can be done in way less than 10 hours . I know others will join in who are successfully doing it, I just wanted to give you encouragement before I am off to meetings.

Little Hearts is a great program... the readings are super short... total takes about 45 minutes You could always have one of your older ones read the Storytime book to them and maybe even do the Rhymes in Motion while you are helping the other older one.... explaining anything needed for independent work or semi-independent work. You'll figure out the routine you'll need to have to run multiple programs. You don't have to do one start to finish with YOU for 4 hours and then do the other one completely with YOU for 4 hours and then do the little ones for 1 hour I'd say it can ALL be done in half a day, maybe a little after lunch. Now of course I don't have as high of levels as you have, but we get done with school in about 2 hours with Bigger, LHFHG, and LHTH with workbooks. All of those need me for most of their work. So I really don't see MY teaching time going up that much as they get older. Preparing on up has a lot more independent work and less teacher work built in, so as one of mine gets to a more teacher intensive level the older one will get to a more independent level.

Brenda - I am wondering if your 9 and 11 yo dc could do PHFHG, with the 11 yo doing the Extensions? Then your 6 yo could do LHFHG/ Beyond. This would give you a balance of teaching time among your dc, rather than being top heavy and having you divide your time between your 2 oldest dc, with little time left for the youngers. The olders are actually at a point where they should move away from needing you so much. You shouldn't feel like you are reading aloud all of the time with those ages, instead they should be doing the reading more themselves, as well as taking over the reading of directions for assignments, and the completing of their work more, with your role becoming to do follow-ups and teach new skills within those follow-up assessments.

In contrast, your youngers are reaching a point where they truly do need you, and the sooner you put them on the path of learning the skills necessary to work toward independence, the sooner they will be taking steps toward becoming more independent and you will then be freed up to teach your very youngest dc down the road. I think as busy mamas it's super important to divide our time according to needs, and the oldest dc just can't always be the focus and always have us all to themselves. I think you are wise to consider that 3 programs (especially with back to back programs like PHFHG and CTC; and especially with 4 yo's, a 20 month old, and a newborn) may be too much. We do have to factor size of a family into placement. A mama spread too thin is a stressed mama, and we have to guard against that. What are your thoughts on your 9 and 11 yo being combined? I'd love to know!

In Christ,
Julie

I had my dd's combined last year in Bigger. My oldest dd did the extension package. I was supplementing extra geography for her this past school year when they were working together- and she was working her own math level, I added spelling to her level and did Rod and Staff grammar with her on her level. I am afraid, at this point, she needs more. Her scores on our state required achievement testing really said to me, that I am doing her a dis- service by holding her back with her younger sister. She wrote her own 'book' (I would say short story but it was about 10-15 pages typed and printed- which for her age, I do not consider a 'short' story). She expresses an interest in making a family newspaper. She is doing her own Bible study/recording favorite Bible verses, kinda- and would be interested in some direction for her own Bible study time, IMHO. She also expressed an interest in doing a research paper (though not as strongly). If I were to keep them together, I would feel she needs supplemental geography, writing program, her own math level, her own grammar level, her own spelling level..... It would be more work for me to do this IMHO, than to get the next level curriculum which would have things laid out (and plans for some of what I supplemented) that she can read and do for herself. IF I placed her stictly according to placement chart, I think she would place in Res. 2 Ref, but I don't want her to miss the CTC time period.

Don't get me wrong, that first sentence sounds like I am downing the extension package- I am not. My dd tested well, and that is at least in part due to HOD. I am not at all saying the extension package isn't good- just that, for our situation, I am afraid it isn't enough of what my dd needs. She is very much capable of doing independent assignments and having me follow up, and very much wants this.

My 2nd oldest dd- not so much. She is very clingy, often confused by directions, very much needs my help/guidance with most assignments. She will very much need me to go over each assignment with her- steps, directions, and individually- giving her a list of do this, then this, and then this- is overwhelming to her. She is very smart, reads very well, had very good test scores in those areas as well- but I believe moving her any further ahead of Preparing would overload her. She is often frustrated that her older sister 'gets it' so quickly, and accomplishes the task so easily- that this makes her feel self conscious- when she shouldn't it is just that her older sister knows some of it already.....

You are quite correct, my twins, are very ready to learn reading. They are very ready to learn their basic math skills, and they need much instruction in all these areas from me, on a daily basis. My oldest is willing to read the teachers manual and do activities with them- and extremely capable. That is fine with me for read aloud, the science stuff, maybe history covered in Little Hearts. However, I feel I need to instruct math, reading, writing with them. My middle dd, while she loves to play school with them, and instruct them etc= she wants nothing at all to do with following the teachers manual- even though I think she is capable of doing it.

The other difficulty is that, while my oldest dd doesn't 'need' me to read aloud to her- she does NEED to know I still have time for her, and that she doesn't get 'lost in the shuffle' of me doing everything 'with/for' everyone else. Also that both of my older girls need a bit of intense math work.

If I had to do 3 manuals, I would likely omit the Little Hearts history readings and instead have them listen in to the 9yo history readings for Preparing. They are both a general history overview, and it would at least save me that small amount of time (and my twins presently listen to a chapter or 2 from a chapter book each night so I think they can handle it). I would also likely choose 1 Bible verse from the 3 manuals and have all the children memorize that 1 scripture instead of having everyone do that individually. Again, it isn't saving much time, but it allows me to cover Bible with everyone, and steals a few precious moments more for me to work with someone on reading or writing etc....

Brenda

Your oldest sounds creative. My oldest daughter is creative too. Honestly, either of the above plans could work. If you do Preparing with extensions, your daughter will hit the guides at the same time mine does. Mine could easily do a harder guide also, but having lots of younger ones, it was just too much for me. She has her own math, English and some supplementary science, but she does the rest with her younger brothers. It takes a little tweaking, but it is easier for me than having another set of books to keep track of. You may feel differently. Another guide may make your life easier. I just wanted to share that it did not for me. We had to go back to combining which did cause some problems with coverage, but we all survived. Also, if there is more time-commitment school-wise, she may quit doing some of the fun extras she now enjoys. I just wanted to let you know it is OK and she will be fine if you can't handle another guide.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on combining your oldest 2 dc. I think you have a few options here to contemplate. First, 8arrows post has such wise words to consider. From a mom who is walking in your shoes, I think she has some very good thoughts there to ponder. If having your oldest dd do CTC means your younger dc will not be able to have LHFHG's instruction, I'm not sure if that's worth the trade-off. My thinking here is your oldest is already doing so well, is naturally creative, and will thrive with what she is doing no matter what. Your younger dc though are going to be needing you more now, in order to get off on the right foot so that further down the road they have made the same steps your older dd has made and can capably handle the meat of the further guides, therefore freeing time for you to be with the very littlest dc of the family at that point. So, 8arrows suggestion of considering PHFHG for your 9 yo and 11 yo, using the extensions for your 11 yo is worth some real thought. It may not be the perfect fit for your oldest, but it could be a very good fit for everyone in general, as it would allow your to balance your time and attention among all the dc more evenly. You could challenge your oldest by doing an upper level "Drawn into the Heart of Reading" and add "Igniting Your Writing" for the creative writing portion of LA. This is an easy to add and use writing program that is quiet independent. All that would be left is choosing the right level of grammar and math.

Another option would be to have your 11 yo do CTC, and have your 9 yo do PHFHG, but do it half-speed. This would give your 9 yo time to grow and mature in some learning skills, and you would have time to really come alongside her and really train her to manage her time, follow directions in the manual, and she could really blossom into her own person rather than feeling she was living in the shadow of big sister. You could still haver her do daily 3 R's, but do the rest of the plans half-speed. We did this with our middle ds with Bigger Hearts, and it helped him grow in so many areas. He really just bloomed with the extra attention I was able to give him, and the extra time he had to grow into the guide well. Likewise, I am wondering if you could do Little Hearts for His Glory half-speed with the 6 year olds and the 4 yo, but do daily 3R's, using the right side of Beyond for anyone who needed it. This give your 6 yo's time to really work on their phonics, writing, and math, while letting your 4 yo still learn along with them as much as possible, and it would stretch LHFHG out so the 3 of them could eventually be combined. It would also spread your time out very evenly among everyone, giving you time with your oldest to oversee her growing independence, time with your 9 yo to help her really grow in semi-independence, and time with your 3 younger dc to help them have training at their appropriate level in all subject areas, while still clipping along with the 3R's with them full-speed. This really would only have you doing 2 guides amount of work each day, as CTC is full-speed (and quite independent anyway), PHFHG is half-speed, and LHFHG is half-speed.

I think you could have your CTC dd just read her Storytime titles (my 11 yo did this this past year for RTR and enjoyed it). For your 9 yo dd, I would read her read-alouds to her and do the follow-ups. As you'd be doing this half-speed, you'd only be reading these every other day. For your dc doing LHFHG, I'd read those read-alouds to them. They are super short, and as you'd be doing that half-speed as well, you'd only be reading these every other day. So, that would work out to 1 Storytime read aloud for you to do each day. I'd not have everyone listen in on each others, as this lengthens the day for them and for you.

You will be getting in Bible time in a very mature manner with your dd within CTC by doing your "T" teacher-directed box with her. She will also have her own Bible Quiet Time each day. For your 9 yo dd, she will have you with her for a portion of her Bible Study box, but her other portion will begin teaching her to have her own Bible Quiet Time as well. For your dc doing LHFHG, the BIble time has an excellent devotion 1 x a week, as well as short Bible verse singing and memorization fitting that level. Your 2 oldest dc will have their own Bible music CD's to sing along with to memorize their Scriptures, and this is a part of their independent Bible quiet times. I wouldn't try to lump them all together for Bible memorization by using the older guide's Bible time for all, as this will actually take you longer because you will have to lead the olders' Bible quiet time, which was meant to be done independently and reading it all out loud and trying to do it all with little ones will just take long. It will also have the younger dc stretched too far, and does not lend itself to sharing personal struggles, temptations, and triumphs they may be having. I honestly have loved the separate Bible discussions I have with each of my dc due to doing different guides. They share so much more, and the Bible times are just written to be more at their individual levels where they can truly take in what we are discussing and they are learning.

Okay - so what are your thoughts on all of this? I am hoping something here will help as you ponder what's best for your family. HOD helps our homeschool run smoothly and happily in the day to day, even though we are doing 3 guides. I think it's the way the guides really match what dc need and can learn to do within a year. I know there is the right combination of guides for your family too - I hope all of these ideas can somehow help make clear to you what is a good fit for your individual needs. Keep asking questions and talking through this until you have peace about it - we love to help here!

In Christ,
Julie

Unfortunately, my thoughts are very jumbled at this point. I have loved the 2 years that I have used HOD with my older dd's. I loved the time the older girls spent using HOD Little Hands with my littles.

Looking on though I have concerns in many areas. While I am not a parent to "push" children in education, I am also a big believer in if a child is seeking or asking for something, they should get that. My older dd is seeking more. I am a big believer in when a child is hungry for knowledge it is important to foster and nurture that- which won't happen if I keep my oldest with her sister unless i plan out some supplementation. (I am not a wing it kind of supplement person)

My middle dd does need/desire to be out from her sisters shadow as you say. She does want her own 'thing'. This is also important because she just sits back and lets her older sister answer and lead and do, because she doesn't want to be wrong (especially not if her sister knows the answer). It is important for her to get that boost in self confidence.

It is important for my 6yo twins, and 4yods, to get the time and attention they need to begin math skills, writing skills and phonics/reading. They are eager and desiring to do workbooks, do school, learn to read....

Is my oldest dd going to be on target for gaduation, college, and her life plans if i hold her back with younger dd?

I also come from the 'background' of beginning this dd's education with a very unschool/eclectic approach- so I am not as concerned that the youngers have science, and history and all, and am more laid back about reading- while yes, I will work with them, and they are read to often-- I don't feel the least stressed if they 'learn from life' more often than naught. My oldest dd didn't have any formal planning in education till she started cyberschool when she turned 8- and she was right on track for 2nd grade- reading and math were right on target even though we had simply learned from life.

All of that seems to put me with 3 guides/levels. I am not sure I can handle 3 guides. I think I need to spend some time in prayer and reading the advice given- and actually digesting it.

Brenda

Just to try to give you a bit of encouragement, I use 3 guides with six dc, and have a toddler and baby. We are finishing up CTC with my oldest two, use Bigger (with extensions for one) with my middle two, and LHFHG with my younger two. This takes about 4-5 hours a day. The key is to schedule individual dc's independent work while you are working one-on-one with others. I'm a fly by the seat of my pants kind of gal , but I've realized that makes everything take waaaay longer than it should. So I have a schedule now and I love it. It's just unavoidable that the more dc you have and the older they get, there are just a lot of moving parts to coordinate. I call it life becoming more rich and full. So an efficient schedule will be your best friend, no matter what currriculum you use and/or combination of programs. I think HOD is the easiest thing to use that will streamline your day and still give your dc a rich and high-quality education, and believe me, I've looked at everything out there . I'm pretty disorganized by nature, and HOD's ultra-organization helps me with that - just one reason I love it. I wish I had a nice spreadsheet of scheduling to show you, but I'm not that high-tech and I'm just written out on paper. I use something similar to Julie's nice schedule she has uploaded to the board, just on a larger scale.

Just my thoughts for FWIW. I'm not trying to encourage you to combine or not combine one way or the other, just to encourage you that you can make it work for your family no matter what you choose.

ETA: It's helpful to keep in mind that the older guides "count" as a partial guide as far your teaching time goes since they are increasingly more independent. I spend most of my time with my middle two and younger two in Bigger and Little Hearts. CTC we spend 45 min to an hour together. Preparing is even more independent than Bigger. So doing CTC, Preparing and Little Hearts wouldn't be like doing say, Little Hearts, Beyond, and Bigger (which of course wouldn't be a good combo)

Brenda,

The ladies are doing a terrific job of talking through your options with you, and the more you share the easier it is to see what direction your heart is desiring for you to pursue.

I agree that with the amount of adding you were doing in the past for your soon-to-be sixth grader, moving to a higher level guide would be easier than all of the tweaking. It would give you a plan you can just open and teach and not tweak. To me that is a huge blessing and a huge time saver. So, with that in mind, I would lean toward placing your daughter in RTR, if that is where she fits on the chart, and not worry about the history time period. I deeply love CTC, but if you really don't want to be tweaking, then placement based on skill level is more important than placement based on historical time period. Now, if your almost 6th grader actually fits between CTC and RTR, then you could easily consider CTC. Try to take the history cycle out of the thinking process and just see where she fits best on the first page of the placement chart. Then, you'll have your answer for her.

For the soon-to-be 4th grader, I do think Preparing Hearts at full-speed sounds wonderful. Plus, the great news is that with her one-on-one you'll be training her in the independent skills she'll need the following year for CTC. It is a 4 day plan too, as are CTC and RTR, which will help you so much in getting done each week.

With your next pair, I would definitely do LHFHG and do the readings that are for them. Your school with your 4th grader will go better and much more quickly if you don't have the littles listening in the readings from Preparing. Instead, the littles school will be short and sweet with LHFHG and done in 90 min., but again will truly fit them... no tweaking or editing required for little ears. I would do LHFHG on a 4 day plan too, so their schedule matches your older kiddos. That way, you'll go an 9 extra weeks into the next school year to finish LHFHG, but you'll also reap the benefits of a 4 day week all around.

Plus, in this plan, if you ever feel you can't hang on as you're going, then you could always move your 6th grader back to Preparing Hearts and have lost very little. So, you have a great back-up plan too.

In all honesty, with your large family you will be busy schooling no matter what curriculum you use. But, with the 3 guides you're considering, it is very manageable and even enjoyable. We did LHTH, Bigger Hearts, RTR, and high school last year and thoroughly enjoyed our days. This year we'll be doing LHFHG, finishing Bigger Hearts, doing Rev2Rev, and high school, and I'm still looking forward to it! I truly just open and teach in every guide, because my kiddos are well-placed. No tweaking needed!

Blessings,
Carrie

Ok I had started a response and apparently I take too long and it logged me out

Anyway, I am not sure where exactly dd would fall. She is definatley ready for writing instruction. She was doing Rod and Staff 4 this past year. She could do the simple diagramming easily, but the more complex diagramming she had a harder time with. I don't know what the placement chart means when it says is able to apply literary terms and can apply them to think more deeply?? I admit, I have been very lax with DITHOR- if they finished their reading I was generally satisfied. She did have some literature study before we started HOD, and we have surely covered at least SOME of the DITHOR of reading lessons in the 2 years we have worked with it- even if I am lax. She can read difficult chapter books. She can do copywork in cursive but complains about it. she far prefers print. Can definately produce the 10-14 sentences listed, easily writes paragraphs (though she should definately have more instruction on the 'structure' of a paragraph etc) and longer narrations. She does try to proofread her work for errors, but misses many of the errors.

I don't use the math placement guide because we are changing to a different math program.

She is already on her own reading the BIble daily, and is interested and ready for daily independent Bible study. I was thinking of buying one of the books used in RTR Godly womanhood section- before I realized it was used in RTR. When I thought I was keeping them together in Preparing, I was going to order the RTR guide and GOdly womanhood books to do with her in addition to the work in Preparing.

She can read the daily history assignments and follow written instructions (she often comes and looks at my lesson plans then goes and does her extension reading on her own- she also taught the twins from Little Hands so she can read and follow the directions....) I made them do a very brief, lmited research activity on chickens- long story LOL- so I think with proper instruction she could do/write research.

She definately would prefer real life projects for science. She definately wants more in the science area (my kids both wanted more- they both felt like it was just more history reading, reading about science in the time period) She already bakes and cooks and gardens and all of my kids love when I let them do things to see what happens if we do this.. She would totally love to build a robot.. she has helped her father with computer work on occassion...

(I just realized I am reading down the Revival to REvolution column of the placement chart LOL)

Brenda

I am bumping this because for some reason when I log into the boards I can't find it without 'searching' for it... i am not sure why, but figure if no one can find it, they can't read LOL.....

Brenda