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Hello,
I was all set to use RtR next year with my two ds who will be 9 and 11 in fall. I thought that I could easily modify RtR for the younger and sometime in the future maybe jump him back to do some of the earlier guides with his younger brother (7 in fall). I could either have him do Preparing and CtC or Ctc and RtR a second time with extensions. That way he would enter high school in the correct guide.

Well, after reading a bunch of threads on this board it seems like a better plan might be to put them both (the 9 and 11 yo) in Preparing since they would both fall in that age group. I hesitated doing that because of where we are in the history cycle. We finished MOH 1 and 2 in the last two years. I know, that's not the deciding factor, but it does influence me some. I had also wanted the 11 yo to finish all the guides. RtR looked like it would be a good fit for him. He was so excited about it and eager to have his own book to study the bible. When I showed him Preparing and asked him what he thought, his first reaction was that it looked childish, but he considered it and told me that he would be fine with it.

Now, for my questions. Preparing looks like a great guide, but have you found it to be enough for your 11 yo.? Did you have them do the self-study package and the extension package? My son loves to read, so I think he could handle both. Are there specific assignments written for the extension package or are there just general guidelines?

We will be using CQLA next year for writing, so I'm not really worried about the writing aspect of it since he will be doing quite a bit of it. I know that CQLA has a lot of language arts but we used it this year and the boys begged to use it one more year so I listened to them (maybe unwisely) and it's already bought.

I'm still not decided about all this so if anybody has any advice for me that's appreciated, too. Thanks.

Could you put them both in CTC this coming fall, as the age range for that guide is 9-11? I am not familiar with the history cycle you referred to so not sure what part of history you are not wanting to do again. I do agree that going back in the guides is generally not a good idea due to the skill progression.

I'm sorry for not being clearer. I meant to say that we are really ready to go on in history and do something more modern since we spent two years on the time period from creation to around the end of the Middle Ages. I really don't want to go back and do Creation to Christ again. With either Preparing or RtR, though there would be a lot of review with either, at least we would get to new material. I'm not saying I'm dead set against CtC, but it's not on the top of my list. A few months ago, I would not have even considered it, but I'm weakening a bit.

Just wanted to say, too, that I'm beginning to see the value of doing a one year overview of world history. We've never done that and I can see how it would be very helpful.

Hi Wonderfilled,

We are finishing up Preparing right now. I too have 2 dss 9 and 11. They have both enjoyed it very much. My 11 year old does do the extension package and older dictation all included in the appendix of the guide.

It will cover the years in history that you have just finished in MOH, but will include outstanding things like art projects, drawing, and the wonderful book by Starr Meade Grandpas Box. I think it will have enough new things to engross your boys until you move into the later part of history that you have not reached with MOH. Review is always a good thing in the younger years anyway

If you are concerned about heading into Cto C after Preparing--- I just received C to C in the mail for next year. You won't want to miss it. I almost could not put the books down myself when I was previewing, especially the extension books. Carrie does such a great job laying out skill upon skill in each book. The progression from one guide to the next is terrific. As you work from one TG to the next you will notice independence increasing in each guide from basics work to incorporating a very full student quiet time. Writing assignments begin with a very teacher directed oral/written narration to a very student managed format. That is just to name a few. All to say that one guide builds on to the next seamlessly when it comes to scope and sequence of learning skills. You might want to consider not skipping over one.

My 11 year old will not exactly get to finish all the guides, but my younger 2 will be able to. My older guy did not get started with HOD in time But we will work through as many as we can because we love them. I would really look at the skills chart in the front of the HOD catalog or check out the Home Page. Choose the skills for your younger then add the extensions for your older. Carrie and Julie will also give you placement advise.

But I can wholeheartedly recommend Preparing for an 11 year old. The extension books added to the regular package are more than plenty. My son has loved every minute!

Thanks 3muskateers, I was actually just looking over the HOD catalog again and considering CtC for the first time for next year and thought it actually might be a good fit skill wise for both of them. So I think either Preparing or CtC would work. Do you think it would be better to start with Preparing or would either be fine?

I think review is good, too. I'm sure much more would stick the second time around. And also, since I'll be doing Beyond with ds 7 they'll at least get some exposure to American history whichever route I go.

Do you think it would be better to start with Preparing or would either be fine?

Hi wonderfilled,

They are both great programs!

My advice, whatever that is worth , would be to really focus on the Program Placement Chart or skill chart. You might start a new thread that reads Placement Help Carrie or Julie. They are in book fair mode right now, but they will answer. They will ask you some very specific questions about your children's skills and help you find the perfect fit.

Whichever one you finally choose, I know you are going to love HOD!

You've already received some good advice here that is right on track. With HOD, it is important to place dc according to the placement chart. Placing dc accurately from the start results in dc moving happily and successfully through each subsequent guide. Usually even if dc have covered certain time periods, repeating a time period really doesn't feel like a repeat because of HOD's unique way of writing multiple living books, fresh follow-up activities, and hands-on learning into the guides. The big difference between PHFHG and CTC is the amount of reading and writing dc are doing. In PHFHG, dc read half of their history, and the parent reads the other half. In CTC, dc are responsible for reading their history. In both PHFHG and CTC, dc read their science. In PHFHG, beginning creative writing and written narration skills are taught. In CTC, dc are expected to be familiar with creative writing and written narrations, and the lessons are more at an intermediate than introductory level. In general, HOD advises to place with the youngest in mind, and beef up for the oldest. This works very well, as HOD has written excellent extension packages for the oldest to use. Here are links to the first week of plans for both PHFHG and CTC:
http://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/PHFHG-sample-week.pdf
http://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/CTC-First-Week.pdf

The "T" boxes are "teacher-directed", the "S" boxes are "semi-independent", and the "I" boxes are "independent". Reading through the "I" boxes and really seeing if your younger child can do them independently without tweaking (especially the "Independent History" and "Science Exploration" boxes) should help you decide whether PHFHG or CTC is a better fit. They both are wonderful guides, so you really can't go wrong as long as dc are accurately placed skillwise. HTH, and I'm excited for you to begin your HOD journey!

In Christ,
Julie

I sent you a PM-
but just wanted to say-
that I have learned the hard way- it is really important to place them where they individually fit best- even if it means separate guides!

Blessings,
Rebecca

wonderfilled,

If you get a chance to pop back and tell us where your kiddos fit as individuals on only the first page of the placement chart, then we can advise you so much better. Try to take the history cycle out of the equation and just focus on each child's skills individually. I know it is hard to do, but it will make a much better fit in the long run, as all skills in the guide stem from those on the first page of the placement chart.

Blessings,
Carrie

Thank you so much, ladies, for all your replies,

I've looked at the placement charts numerous times. I have printed off the first weeks for Preparing, CtC, and RtR and read through them. I think for right now I am leaning toward CtC. I think the 9 yo could handle it. They have both had practice with written narrations in Science and History the past year. The instructions in the guide are written so clearly that it would be giving them even more guidance than I have been giving them. I have been doing history and science with them, and I think I might continue, but I do like it how the guide is written that they can do a lot of it on their own if need be. I think that they will also like it that they are not so dependent on me. I think sometimes it has been frustrating for them if they have to wait for me until I have time and they want to go ahead and get it finished.

If I had just the 9 yo to consider, I might place him in Preparing, but I think, since separating is not an option at this time, CtC is the best fit for both.

I never thought I would consider CtC when I first started looking into HOD because I didn't want to repeat history we've studied recently, but I'm starting to see how it makes sense.

Thanks so much for sharing a bit more about your kiddos. One thing to ponder as you think about CTC is that CTC intends for kiddos to read their own history and science, along with reading and independently following the directions in the 'I' boxes. So, you'll want to be sure that your 9 year old can truly read the history and science material on his/her own. Otherwise, you'll end up forever reading aloud to both kiddos, as the history and science books continue to grow in difficulty and length with each successive guide.

The key to whether CTC will fit your kiddos is truly whether your youngest will be able to do what is being asked in the guide. At HOD, we find it much easier to beef up for an older child than to water down for a younger child. Some questions to ponder would be as follows: Has your 9 year old read any of his own science or history in the past, or have you mainly done a read-aloud method for those subjects? Here 's a link to some of the readings for you to have your 9 year old try. Scroll down at the link and click on the links within it to see samples of the various readings: http://www.heartofdakota.com/hearts-for ... ient-world Has your youngest had any practice reading and following fairly lengthy written directions? Is your 9 year old a fairly independent child? Can your 9 year old write and copy easily and without any issues?

Feel free to pop back with your thoughts on these questions and any other thoughts you have! We'll be glad to talk through this with you until you find the right fit for your family.

Blessings,
Carrie

Thanks Carrie for your input. My ds 8 is a good reader so I don't think there should be a problem. I looked at a lot of the sample pages, but it sounds like a good idea to have my son read them to me. We just finished Apologia Astronomy and though I read it to them, I don't think he would have had any problem reading it himself. I'm mentioning this because I notice it is used in RtR. I asked him yesterday how he would feel about doing his own science and history reading and he said it sounds like fun.

As for following lengthy written directions, that's another question. I usually think he tries to out-think himself when it comes to directions. This has been a problem even in Math story problems, etc., but I think he'll improve. He's just a bit too detail-oriented and sometimes doesn't see the big picture.

If he does end up struggling and I end up making too many modifications to the assignments, would it work to put him back with ds 6 who will be in Beyond this coming school year? I know that Beyond isn't written with extensions but from there on up the guides would fit his age. It sounds like a big jump back, but even though he is a strong reader and enjoys reading, I don't think it would be as hard on him as it is on his older brother to go to an easier level. He'd rather be inventing things than doing school work. He would, of course, still have his own math and grammar. I could see how he is doing by the end of CtC and decide if I think he is ready for RtR. If not, he could go into Bigger with his brother. I hope I'm making sense.

Thanks again Carrie. I know you have heard this many times, but I am thankful for how much time you put into answering the many questions that come your way. We are so excited about next year. My ds 10 is making HOD style "school" for his younger brother, complete with notebook pages modeled after the ones in CtC with different boxes and directions what to do in each box. He says it will help him be patient for next year.

... I just wanted to add that ds 8 used to be a bit writing-phobic, but he has really improved in the last year. His cursive writing is all of a sudden beautiful where a few months ago it was pretty terrible. He still makes a few mistakes with his letters, but they are becoming fewer and fewer. BTW, I don't know if I should start a new post for this, but I've been wondering something about the copy work in all the manuals. When the child is supposed to copy something in cursive is the example given in cursive or are they supposed to write cursive from a print model? I know in the Draw and Write through History books, the model is already in cursive, but what about other assignments?

I can answer the copywork question. It is not given in cursive. It is usually a verse from the Bible, or a quote that is typed in the manual. One day a week they pick something they find significant from their history reading and write that in cursive. My son is dysgraphic so I usually write it up on the white board in cursive and he copies it. However he has moved to doing his bible verses straight from the bible. So you could start out writing it on the white board for him with the goal to move him away from that.

I will also say that the independent history reading is challenging to comprehend and then do written narrations from. I think it is a good idea to have your ds read a sample and maybe even do a little narrating back to you so you know he understands it.

I just got done looking at the samples for Stories of the Ancient World. I had read samples of the other history and science books, but I somehow missed this one. I'm not sure why since it's right on top. It is pretty challenging. I printed some of the chapters off and had my son read them. He did pretty well without too many mistakes. He had a hard time telling me what was going on in The Theban Revolt, but maybe it was because he was jumping in the middle of a story. I am assuming that by the time he comes to this chapter he will already be familiar with the Thebes and the Cushites so that might help. The stories from the Bible, I know he can do because he's heard them so often, so I'm not sure what to think.

Thanks for the advice ladies. I'll have to give it some thought.

Thanks LynnH. I might do the same thing until they are both a bit stronger in cursive. I plan on having them work on their cursive over the summer, so that should help, too. They can both copy cursive beautifully, but they never choose to write cursive on their own so I'm not even sure how they would do if they tried.