New member - 1 son at home, 11 yrs - questions

[OklahomaJamie]

Hi! My name is Jamie. I have an only child at home, an 11 year old son in the 5th grade. My son has been in PS from PreK through 4th grade and we have been homeschooling since the beginning of the 5th grade year. We currently use MFW, ECC, and it is a really good program, but I'm wondering about switching over to HOD this next year. My son has ADHD, and HATES to write, color, draw, etc. I've been looking at the HOD website and I am liking the way the lesson plans are laid out, telling you EXACTLY what to do step by step. MFW'S ECC has a nice lesson plan, but it doesn't seem to be as well laid out.

I'm wanting advice on beginning HOD.

*Do you think it would be a good match for an only child, ADHD boy who HATES writing, etc?

*Where should we start? Should we get the Revival to Reformation, the Creation to Christ???? which one would you start with if it were your first year using HOD and you had an 11 yr old (12 yrs in Nov) going into the 6th grade?

Thank ya!!
Jamie

[Mercy]

Hi there,
We began in Feb using Preparing with my 11yo and it has been a nice fit. My son has really grown in his writing these last few months. He is actually a perfectionist, so he doesnt like writing and he takes a long time doing it. There are a few ways to cut the writing down, but also, as I said he has grown. He is writing (without a lot of complaint!) much more than he ever did before. Just thought I would share our situation a lil bit.

Otherwise, the best place for you to start is at the placement chart. HOD places by skills and it is REALLY important that they are in the right program, otherwise it will not be an enjoyable experience for you or him.

Hope that helps a little bit...
Mercy

[Mercy]

Here is the link to the placement chart...
http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

Hth,
Mercy

[tnahid]

I am thinking that Preparing would be a good fit for him for his first year in HOD. I personally think he would do very well as an only child with HOD. My son has ADHD tendencies, and he really loves it. He is 10 and will be in Bigger next year with extensions. If he is a bit of a struggling or defiant learner, Bigger might even be a better place to start with extensions. You will be more involved with his daily lessons in Bigger, if that is something you feel would benefit him. I think in Preparing it becomes a lot more independent work. Just my thoughts for you! I know that for us this year, I combined my 2 in Beyond and it worked out really well. My son could not have done Preparing at all this year. He might could have done Bigger, but combining was best for us. He is a strong-willed child and doesn't like writing very much either, though he has excellent handwriting and cursive. I did use higher level of LA and Math with him though.

Welcome to the HOD board. I am sure you will get many good suggestions from the wonderful, wise ladies here! Glad you are coming to HOD!

[my3sons]

Hi Jamie, and welcome to the HOD Board! If you get a chance to check out the placement chart, could you share a bit about which program seems to fit your ds best, especially with the first page of the chart in mind? Then we can help talk through different options and details with you. HOD is such a blessing in our home! The short lessons and varied follow-ups have been a huge hit with our sons, as well as the F-U-N in the plans, the awesome books, and heart-to-heart talks. I think your ds will love it too! When you get the chance, can you share a bit about him with the placement chart in mind? Then we'll all chat about some options.

In Christ,
Julie

[OklahomaJamie]

I'll try with the placement chart:

AGE: His age of course, is 11 now. He will be 12 in November
READING: This one is difficult for me to answer. I do most of the reading aloud because that is what he likes. But, he has read several chapter books on his own, some Hardy Boys books, etc. He is a good reader.
WRITING: He hates writing. He writes very sloppy and I have trouble getting him to space properly. But, when it is something he cares about, he will take his time and write very neatly. He writes in print, but can write in cursive, just doesn't like to. As for dictation. That is something new to us since we've never homeschooled up until this year. He doesn't like it because it has to do with writing. I'll have to dictate 3 words, then stop and wait, then 3 more, etc. I think that alot of it is pure rebellion an not wanting to write, so he's making it difficult for me.
GRAMMAR, MECHANICS AND USAGE: He knows his basic parts of speech.. nouns, pro nouns, verbs, adverbs, prepositional phrases, adjectives, etc. He does correct me at times when I use a word incorrectly.
MATH: This one is hard for me too. He LOVES hands on math. He did a geometry lesson from Math Mammoth where I cut out the shapes and he had to make things with them. He had a blast. He's math smart, but is having a bit of a difficult time right now, as he is learning to add, subtract, and multiply mixed fractions. Our current math book is Life of Fred Fractions. He doesn't like alot of busy math work, and he hates reviewing place values, etc over and over. He hates multiplication of multiple digits, as well as division, but can do it well when he applies himself.

Right now, with MFW ECC, I read aloud all of the books, the geography books, the science books, the Bible study books, etc. He likes it better when I do, but I think that is alot of laziness on his part. I would like for him to do more work independently, as that would be less friction between the two of us. But I do want some involvement, because I enjoy learning with him. With MFW ECC, he complains because of all the work that takes forever (it's mostly me reading).

Yesterday's schedule was like this:
I read 2 pages about a people in South Africa.
We both colored a John 3:16 Kenya page - I colored the man and he colored the flag.
He copied his memory verse - Matthew 6:20-21 (with much complaint)
Classroom Atlas - we located each country in Africa - he told me what to write where on our printed blank map
Science - I read about Grasslands and he shaded the areas on the map where grasslands are located across the world.
Music - we listened to an African song
Math - Test (will have to retake today, missed 4 out of 10 and must miss no more than 2)

Now, we just started back to MFW ECC yesterday after having taken a couple month break. We did one book of The Prairie Primer, and started on a unitstudy.com Garden unit. Which he didn't have many complaints on either of those. But I don't feel like he's getting quite enough because of all the extra work required of me to teach them and I am not that good about getting all this stuff ready. It seemed like school would take 1 hour tops on the garden study. Also, any writing of vocab words, answering questions, etc - I had to write them to keep him from griping and making me miserable. I let him dictate, and I write, so it's his words, but my applying the effort.

I just get so frustrated and sometimes wish for him to go back to public school so I can have my days back, but that's not really what I want. Y'all be honest with me. If you have any suggestions, let me know. I also think maybe just do Switched on Schoolhouse. It's all computer and hardly any involvement from me. That would be easy on me.

Hi Jamie, and welcome to the HOD Board! If you get a chance to check out the placement chart, could you share a bit
about which program seems to fit your ds best, especially with the first page of the chart in mind? Then we can help talk through different options and details with you. HOD is such a blessing in our home! The short lessons and varied follow-ups have been a huge hit with our sons, as well as the F-U-N in the plans, the awesome books, and heart-to-heart talks. I think your ds will love it too! When you get the chance, can you share a bit about him with the placement chart in mind? Then we'll all chat about some options.

In Christ,
Julie

[raceNzanesmom]

I'll let others help you with HOD since I'm a newbie.

I will say all SOS is NOT what an ADHD child needs. My oldest didn't mind one subject on the computer, but more than that would have driven him crazy.

He also doesn't like to write (or didn't, he's much better now). I found finding the right supplies helped- good mechanical pencils and composition books. It also took discipline. My son came home after 6th, and believe those first couple years we were both learning how to make it work. He had to learn that I was the teacher and I had to learn what he was really capable of doing then insist he do it. That also meant I couldn't expect him to do what he wasn't capable of.

Pray. Pray. Pray. The Lord will see you through.

[LynnH]

My ds was in public school through 4th grade also and came home for 5th. He has mild Cerebral Palsy which results in dysgraphia so writing is a challenge for him. Reading what you have related about your son I would really lean towards putting him in Preparing next year and here is why. Preparing is a crucial guide to gently start increasing independence and also in increasing the amount of writing required. You will still read the History readings and the storytime books, but he will read the science books and the independent history box books. He will also do notebooking and copywork in cursive of fairly short passages which will get him more used to writing. Also the writing projects that went along with the Poetry are a great step before beginning a more formal writing program in CTC. My ds started out last year in Preparing as one who didn't enjoy reading or writing and ended up the year liking to read and he loved the writing with the poetry. I did decide what I was going to make him do and what I would make allowances for, such as he types some things and is allowed to dictated a few things to me. I made it clear to him what the rules were at the beginning and I never wavered from that. The books in Preparing that he will read on his own are colorful and interesting and the readings are very short. That should help him transition to a more independent learner. You will still be very much involved and know what he is doing. CTC is a big step up from Preparing and it doesn't sound like he is ready for that. I am afraid if you went with that you would end up doing all the reading for him again and that is not how the program was designed.

[blessedmomof4]

Based on what you shared, Preparing Hearts for His Glory would be a great start. In Preparing Hearts, your child begins training toward independence in the Independent History Study and Science. The readings are at a comfortable level and length. There are notebooking activities in both and science experiments that have clear directions for your child to follow. The History projects are also clearly explained and all projects truly use materials you are likely to have at home, and are truly written so that the child can do them, instead of mom having to jump in and take over. There are still read-alouds for you, but by the following program (CTC) your son will be ready to take over the Reading About History box himself. By RTR, if the child is ready, they can also take over the Storytime box.
I used Preparing for one of my daughters for grade 5, and it was a hit! I also agree with the pp that Switched on Schoolhouse for every subject would not be great for a child with ADHD-I used to babysit and teach a girl with ADHD, and that would have made her pull out her hair. Preparing Hearts will take a bit of time investement from you, but the benefits that you and your son will reap will be priceless. Inceidentally, the total time per day for Preparing is about 4 to 4.5 hours a day, and it is scheduled 4 days a week, so you have a 5th day for catch-up, field trips, extra-curricular activities, anything you want! Remember, part of that 4 to 4.5 hours will be your child working independently.
Don't miss Drawn into the Heart of Reading. Since he would be new to it and hates writing, you may want to ease into it by using the 2/3 workbook, but books to read at his proper reading level. The Sample Book Ideas list is a great resource for choosing books to go with DITHOR.
Have you looked at the sample pages for Preparing? That can give you some idea of the flow of days.

[my3sons]

Thank you so much for sharing about your ds here! That really does help us give better advice that is more tailor-fit for each student. The transition from ps to school can be a challenge, but it is worth it in the long run - you will have your ds's heart back. The teaching in HOD is so much more than academics - it has helped me build, work on, and maintain close relationships with each of our sons. Your ds is the same age as my oldest ds right now. I feel this is a crucial time for us with our sons - working on having a loving, positive relationship with our sons at this age is not always easy, but I do believe it is incredibly important - I honestly think without HOD I could "lose" him - lose his heart, and maybe not ever fully get it back. Due to our time within HOD, we have heartfelt talks that seem to fill this need beautifully. We still have our days where attitude runs amuck, but we can pray together and hug and reign it in.

I actually was an online tutor for around 100 students for Switched on Schoolhouse years ago for several years. I believe, because of the nature of the student being left alone with impersonal computer instruction only, the relationship between parents and dc just isn't as strong. I tried to be as personable as possible with my students online, but in no way could I have ever done as good of a job as their mothers could have.

From reading your post, I think that a key goal is for your ds to gain confidence in his independent work. HOD will teach him the skills necessary to gain independence - both academically and personally. I agree with the advice given that "Preparing Hearts for His Glory" (PHFHG) would be an excellent place to start. This will teach him to gradually take over his reading, which in turn will free up time for you teach important skills incrementally, step-by-step guiding him to take over more and more skills until he is working confidently and successfully at a more independent level. Charlotte Mason (CM) advised dc should be reading their own school materials (that's including history, science, reading, poetry, etc.) by age 9, or as soon after that as possible. This is due to the fact that we remember better what we read rather than that which is read to us. As your ds gains skills in his reading by using "Drawn into the Heart of Reading" (DITHOR), he will naturally grow into wanting to do his own reading. This is as much a part of skill progression as it is of maturity.

PHFHG will be an excellent placement for several reasons. It has him taking over a portion of his history reading, but has you still reading the history spines. It has him taking over his science reading, but has you still reading his Storytime Read Alouds. HOD adheres to the CM short lesson method of teaching, which I have to say all of my sons appreciate with gusto! Short, lively lessons with manageable bite-sized amounts of living book readings are followed with activities/discussions/experiments/written work that in turn is varied, kept to a short amount of time, while still being sure to show us if indeed our dc listened/read/worked attentively and understood what they did. The books HOD chooses draw dc in - even dc who don't like reading. These books are living, breathing, narrative treasures - and dc can't help but become interested in "what is going to happen next"! This slowing down pace of books is done in order to "savor" books, to "sit with books" until they become more "like friends". It will take some time, but your ds will definitely begin to come around to fully enjoying books and learning.

Your ds sounds like our 3 sons - they LOVE hands-on anything! God designed boys and men this way. HOD's author has 4 sons herself - so she understands this need well. We have greatly appreciated that the hands-on is not dropped in the upper level HOD guides, as is the trend with many curriculums. Instead, the hands-on is kept, but is more mature, and is independent (which I greatly appreciate as does my ds). This part of your post rang true with me...

I would like for him to do more work independently, as that would be less friction between the two of us...

At this age, too much time with the mama seems to cause exactly what you are mentioning here... friction. I believe this is a natural part of our ds maturing and growing into young men. I was a born "hoverer". I like to hover over my sons as they work, and they liked this very much... when they were younger. Now, my oldest ds wants me to let him work on his own. When I hover too much, there is friction, and it hurts our relationship. Instead, I have decided to put my whole heart into my "T" teacher-directed teaching times in HOD, to give my ds roots. But I give minimal getting started only directions for the "S" semi-independent parts of the guide, and for the "I" independent parts of the guide, I let him fly solo, to give my ds wings. What happy days we have since I've hung up my hovering habits! You will see PHFHG has boxes in its plans labeled "T", "S", and "I" too. This will help your ds grow and mature, gradually taking on more independence with capability. While you will need to train your ds to use his PHFHG manual alongside you and for his "I" boxes independently, and while you will need to train your ds initially how to go about doing each box of plans (probably for 2-4 weeks or so), after that initial "hand-holding", the boxes activities will become familiar as they follow a rotation, and at that point, you will see him taking on more independence and more responsibility for his learning.

After a month, I have a goal for my dc to be doing all of their "I" boxes independently - meaning they get out their materials, read their directions in the "I" boxes, read their books in those boxes independently, follow the directions independently step-by-step, check one more time by reading through the whole box if they did all they were supposed to do, hand in their work on our counter when they are done, clean whatever needs to be cleaned up from those boxes independently, and finally putting a small checkmark in the corner of the box of the plans when they are done. My ds takes immense satisfaction in doing this, and I have seen it carry over into other areas of life... independently following step-by-step directions to complete projects such as building erector sets, shoe shelves, and elaborate toys; as well as following recipes to bake, chore charts, etc. This is a life skill so worth attaining on so many levels!

In regard to the second part of what you said here...
...But I do want some involvement, because I enjoy learning with him...

I think that you would love your teaching parts in PHFHG! And it will be ENJOYABLE! I loved my teaching time in PHFHG (and always have with HOD). PHFHG will have you sharing in half of the history reading, teaching beginning creative writing in small chunks your ds will be successful with, sharing heart to heart talks within the Bible Study box, overseeing history projects that are fun and spread out in small chunks of time over 3 days each week (about 15 minutes a day), reading poetry for enjoyment, reading wonderful Storytime history-based books and having short follow-ups your ds is sure to enjoy, neat kickoffs and wrap-up genre projects in DITHOR - there is so much to LOVE in PHFHG! And, it only took us about 3 to 3 1/2 hours each day (once we were in our rhythm) - and it's only 4 days a week. Very doable, yet solid academics that keep the fun going strong.

For your ds's LA and math, you could have him do R & S English 3 (as this will teach him diagramming), DITHOR Level 2/3 (to give him a year to grow into the writing), choose any level of DITHOR Book Pack he can read well (he is doing the reading for DITHOR), and for math, you can give him the free Singapore Math Placement test at:
http://www.singaporemath.com

Don't be surprised if he scores lower on his Singapore test. It's considered advanced, and lower scores are not uncommon. I'd begin with 3A and go from there for testing. Be sure not to help (even with the reading part) of the math test, as this inflates math scores and makes them be off. Well, what are you thinking if you are not too weary from having read this all?!? I hope something here has helped, and please keep asking questions until you are at peace and excited to begin. HOD is a lifeline to my dc's hearts, and it uses the Lord as its means to achieve this lifeline. I want that kind of homeschooling for every mom and child out there - it is just an incredibly amazing way to go about mothering our dc! HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[OklahomaJamie]

Enjoying reading the answers so far, thanks!

Now, if I decide to order, I'm quite confused about that.

I know I order the Economy Package.

If we choose to use our own Science, then I don't order that right? And on the daily plans, I just ignore the Science Exploration section and do our own science?

Now, do I order the Basic Package History Read Alouds OR the Self Study Extension Package for Older Students? or both?

and then what about the Self Study Deluxe History Package? Do I order that OR/ or AND one of the other 2 pkgs that I mentioned in the previous sentence?

Is the Drawn into the Heart of Reading Teachers Guide universal for all levels of Drawn into the Heart of Reading? And, should I choose the Level 2/3 Student Book since he doesn't like writing and it seems to look like less writing when I looked at the sample. Do I have to order the book packs? I can pick books at the library can't I? and is that what the Book Ideas list is for? Will the student and teachers books be OK for any book or are they written to work with the books you buy in the book pack?

I think this last one is easy enough. We can use our own math and language arts programs.

Thanks!
Jamie

[blessedmomof4]

Enjoying reading the answers so far, thanks!

Now, if I decide to order, I'm quite confused about that.

I know I order the Economy Package.

Yes.

If we choose to use our own Science, then I don't order that right? And on the daily plans, I just ignore the Science Exploration section and do our own science?

Yes.

Now, do I order the Basic Package History Read Alouds OR the Self Study Extension Package for Older Students? or both?

I would choose the Basic History Package Read-alouds only, based on what you shared.

and then what about the Self Study Deluxe History Package? Do I order that OR/ or AND one of the other 2 pkgs that I mentioned in the previous sentence?

You order this in addition to the Basic Package Read-alouds; the Read-alouds are for you to read to him, and the Self Study Package is for him to read independently and goes with the notebooking activities in the Independent History Study part of the daily plans. This will go a long way in training him to work independently

Is the Drawn into the Heart of Reading Teachers Guide universal for all levels of Drawn into the Heart of Reading? And, should I choose the Level 2/3 Student Book since he doesn't like writing and it seems to look like less writing when I looked at the sample. Do I have to order the book packs? I can pick books at the library can't I? and is that what the Book Ideas list is for? Will the student and teachers books be OK for any book or are they written to work with the books you buy in the book pack?

Yes-the teacher guide for DITHOR is universal for all the grades. You don't have to order the book packs if you need to economize-you can order the Book Ideas List to help you choose books from the library, and the lessons in Drawin Into the Heart of Reading work with any books in teh correct genres.

I think this last one is easy enough. We can use our own math and language arts programs.

Yes!

Thanks!
Jamie

[OklahomaJamie]

Seems expensive. Is this correct?

600A - PHFHG - Economy Package 600A $115.97
600B - PHFHG - Basic Package 600B $86.29
600C - PHFHG - Self-Study Deluxe History Package $101.85
100 - Drawn Into The Heart of Reading - Teacher's Guide 100 $59.95
101A - DITHOR - Student Book 2/3 101A $21.95
101D - DITHOR - Sample Book Ideas List 101D $5.00


Sub Total $391.01
Shipping $10.00
Tax $0.00
Total $401.01

[pjdobro]

Seems expensive. Is this correct?

600A - PHFHG - Economy Package 600A $115.97
600B - PHFHG - Basic Package 600B $86.29
600C - PHFHG - Self-Study Deluxe History Package $101.85
100 - Drawn Into The Heart of Reading - Teacher's Guide 100 $59.95
101A - DITHOR - Student Book 2/3 101A $21.95
101D - DITHOR - Sample Book Ideas List 101D $5.00


Sub Total $391.01
Shipping $10.00
Tax $0.00
Total $401.01

You probably should get the DITHR 2/3 package (on the DITHR page). That will save you 8.78 as the package has the TM, the student book, and the sample book list for 78.12. Also I would add the book projects to send home for additional 9.95. That would bring your total to 392.18. I would then add something else to bring your total to over $400 then you would get free shipping. You could get the music CD to go with Preparing. It might seem expensive upfront, but it has all of the resources you need for the year and it is a lot of resources!

[OklahomaJamie]

Also I would add the book projects to send home for additional 9.95

This one said for the creative crafty child (something like that). He doesn't much like crafty stuff. What exactly is it?