HOD and Language Arts

[mama26]

Hi, I am brand new to this board and need some answers. I am a veteran home school mom of 6 kids, 4 of whom are graduated. We have used alot of different kinds of curriculum, mainly unit studies. I have two girls left at home and think I have decided to use Creation to Christ with my 7th grader in the fall.

I am needing answers to the Language Arts question. We have used Easy Grammar throughout and different things for writing. I'm sure Rod and Staff is an excellent program, but I have not used it or the diagramming method and would like to go a different direction.

My question is how much overlap is there in the curriculum for LA as far as dictation and writing and what not. The reason I'm asking is I was considering doing Character Quality Language Arts for the LA part of the curriculum, but didn't know if this would be overkill or not. I would probably do the curriculum as written only with CQLA added in.

Any opinions or thoughts from Carrie and anyone else who has some advice for me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[blessedmomof4]

This previous thread from Carrie may be helpful viewtopic.php?p=29499#p29499 Welcome to the boards
Edited to add-read down the thread to see Carrie's remarks

[flydena]

We also use CQLA, so this is a great question. I've read some other posts, but still am not 100% how HOD works, because we've not yet used it.

I like CQLA, and don't want to go with R&S because we did give it a try a couple years ago and did not like it....especially the diagramming, as I feel labeling is sufficient.

So, I'm hoping to get more responses here as well!

Dena Johns

[blessedmomof4]

Mama26, this thread has a detailed explanation from Carrie, the author, of how writing is covered in HOD over the years through the currently available guides viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8731
Here is one where she responds about narration viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8118
And this thread has links to many others tha explain reasons behind HOD's choices viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6248
Carrie and her sister and editor Julie are traveling right now, but hopefully they will have a chance to give some direct answers to your questions-the clearest answers will come from the source

[birchbark]

The ladies have linked some excellent posts. I will try to sum up what is found within the guides vs. without.

The guides, depending on the level, include:
Copywork
Dictation
Narration
Written narration
Spelling
Vocabulary
Poetry
Some lit analysis

And there is reading and writing scheduled across the guides.

Scheduled in from other programs are (again, depending on the level):
Phonics
Handwriting/Penmanship
Grammar
Creative Writing
Additional lit analysis

Others can add if I have forgotten anything!

FWIW, HoD recommends doing the R&S lessons largely orally, with just a few of the exercises done on a markerboard or on paper. This greatly reduces the busywork (since there is plenty of writing practice in the guides) and makes the lessons short and sweet. I didn't think we would like R&S until we tried it out this way. My DS really enjoys working on the markerboard, especially for the diagramming.

[my3sons]

Excellent answers are here already! Aren't these ladies so helpful and gracious with their time?!? Did you have any other questions after reading the links? If so, be sure to ask!

In Christ,
Julie

[mama26]

Thanks for all your wonderful replies! I guess I am confused about Rod and Staff, having never used it or seen it. Is it strictly grammar or is there writing involved too? If Creation to Christ uses Write with the Best, why is there a second writing component in Rod and Staff?

I guess I just need to know if I did Easy Grammar would that be sufficient to replace Rod and Staff, or do I also need additional writing?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

[my3sons]

Oh, I'm glad you asked! I will try to answer. In R & S English, the emphasis in writing is on organization and clear writing, rather than on creativity, while in "Write with the Best", the emphasis is on creative writing. They each teach different types of skills.

Here is a description of R & S English 4... The first two chapters deal with understanding sentence structure and types. Chapters 3-8 and Chapter 10 focus on seven parts of speech--nouns, verbs, pronouns, adjectives, adverbs, prepositions, and conjunctions. Chapter 9 teaches concepts about punctuation. Chapter 11 concludes the course with lessons on capitalization, the dictionary, synonyms, antonyms, and homonyms. Interspersed thoughout the book are 33 composition lessons. Continual review is built into the lessons.

Here are some of the composition skills that are taught in R & S English 4...
6. Learning to Observe and Listen
12. The Paragraph
13. Speaking Clearly
25. Writing Sentences of Different Lengths
34. Topic Sentences and Titles
35. Unity and Order
40. Developing Paragraphs by Giving Examples
55. Taking Notes for a Report
61. Writing a Book Report
62. Choral Reading
68. Writing a Story From a Picture
74. The Parts and Form of a Friendly Letter
75. Addressing an Envelope
80. Giving an Oral Book Report
84. Writing a Story
85. What to Write in a Friendly Letter
89. Telling How to Do Something
93. Rhyme in Poetry
98. Telling a Story
101. Making Introductions
105. Conversation in Stories
106. Descriptive Words in Poetry
111. Dividing a Longer Story Into Paragraphs
116. Writing a Story From a Poem
120. Writing a Story About a Personal Experience
121. Using the Telephone
125. Being Clear and Specific
126. Bible Poetry

Here is a link to "Write with the Best"...
http://www.heartofdakota.com/hearts-for ... e-the-best

I think it would be tough to find something to replace all of those skills, but you know the alternate grammar program you are considering better than me. I hope this helps answer what different LA skills R & S English and Write with the Best cover!

In Christ,
Julie

[flydena]

WOW! Great information! Thank you all for taking the time to help us newbies! Because HOD is also new to me, I didn't realize the thought put behind the program. I'm beginning to see some things I hadn't seen before. LA is so tough to figure out, because it truly does cover so much info. Now, I'm reconsidering what we do for LA, and probably going to give R&S another chance! I think when we tried it before I just didn't place my kiddos in the right level. (I didn't realize it was an advanced program!) Still not for certain how to place them, but I'm doing some research to hopefully figure this out.

But, if anyone could give some input on placement I'd appreciate it! I was leaning toward Resurrection to Reformation with both my oldest (ages 10 and 13). I've looked at the placement chart over and over again, and I believe that my kids could place at RtR in every area EXCEPT grammar. So, I'm actually hoping to either do RtR and use a lower level than recommended for R&S OR try to get them up to level with grammar before we start RtR. I did see that R&S has some remedial worksheets that cover the 8 parts of speech, capitalization and punctuation, and sentence structure. I'm wondering if we did these worksheets (from now until next fall when I'd like to place them in RtR) if I'd be able to place them in the recommended (4-6 grade) levels in R&S that are supposed to go with the package deal? Does anyone know if this will work? Any other ideas/suggestions?

I've posted other placement questions in previous posts, but still haven't felt secure in what to do about placing my kiddos!

Thanks so much, again, for more insight. I feel I am getting closer to a decision, but want to feel confident before ordering because I'm kind of ordering blindly (I've never seen HOD in person, and won't be able to as HOD is not coming to the conference in our area).

[my3sons]

flydena- As far as R & S English, I wouldn't let the level of it play much into your placement decision. If you think RTR is the correct placement when you look at what dc will be reading and writing and doing independently, then I'd place dc there. If you think it is too difficult in any of these areas, I'd place dc in CTC instead, with extensions for the oldest. As far as grammar, what level did you try with them?

In Christ,
Julie

[flydena]

Julie -

A couple of years ago, I used the 3rd grade level for my daughter....she did ok with it. But, I used the 5th grade level for my son, and because of the newness of the diagramming, he got extremely frustrated, and so did I.

I am attending a homeschool conference this weekend. Today was the first day of two, and Rod & Staff was there. So, I told them the situation, and they felt that the 4th grade level would be a good starting place for both my children. They also thought that my son (13 years old) would probably pick the grammar up fairly quickly, and could advance faster or do more than a day's worth without it being overwhelming, or feeling as though it's too much. (They even thought that he might think it's fun! )

I'm not sure how Carrie has R&S scheduled for RtR, but without seeing it, I'm thinking that I will probably go half speed with my daughter and full speed, or even a bit more, for my son. Then I'll move on to the 5th grade level with him when he finishes 4th.

Thoughts?

Dena

[8arrows]

Dena, If you have done CQLA your children have had an introduction to grammar. At your son's age I would not start with level 4. I think he will find it too easy. Generally the rule of thumb for older children who are not strong in grammar and have not had diagramming is to begin with level 5. This is where Rod and Staff really picks it up. I could not see how old your other child was. Of course you are the best judge, and it will be extremely helpful to be able to look at the material again tomorrow. Look at 4 and 5. See what you think about 5. Again, I couldn't tell how old your dd was, but you do not have to have them in the same Rod and Staff book.

[Busymomma1]

This has been a helpful discussion. I keep waffling back and forth on grammar, specifically. Tried R&S last year, changed back to FLL. Bottom line is, I don't think my kids "love" grammar, so... maybe I should give R & S another try...

[flydena]

8arrows,

My daughter is 10 and will be in 5th grade. What you said is kind of a relief, about starting my son in grade 5. He is very easily discouraged, and if he were to see that he was using the same level as his younger sister...it would really upset him. I'm actually afraid of starting him in 5...as it SEEMS so far behind his grade level, but I will explain to him that 6th & 7th grade levels are giving high school credits (which I've read on some other post...I believe from Carrie) and that should smooth things over. And, I think, depending on how RtR has R&S scheduled, I will keep my daughter at half speed, and my son at full speed.

Starting to get really excited!!!! Decisions are finally being made and I'm getting much closer to an order!

Dena

[8arrows]

Dena, if you think 5 is below him, by all means start with 6. I probably wouldn't jump in with 7 or 8 though. They get pretty hard. Generally Carrie says 7 and 8 are credit worthy. But I also wouldn't worry about starting with 5 if you thought that was were he would succeed. I do think full speed with him is a good idea.