Looking to HOD to focus our CM attempts

[1blessedmom]

I LOVE the look of HOD!! It seems to incorporate all that I was wishing to do this year in our homeschool, being our first CM attempt. We've kind of lost our way, and I am hoping that maybe HOD can get us back on track I don't know if it will be completely possible, as I have a 15 yo ds (9th grade) as well as a 10yo ds (5th grade) this year.

We are up to the year 1700 in our studies, in our 22nd week. The new guide Revival to Revolution looks like it could work for us, but we'd have to stop what we are doing for history and pick it up for next school year. Is that even advisable? Is it "enough" to where I could add to it for the then 10th grader to keep us all in the same time period?

Any advice from those who "have been there" would be greatly appreciated!

[Mom2Monkeys]

Many moms are using the upper guides for high school! So you can easily do that. There's a "sticky" at the top of this main board about beefing up the guides for high school credit, even the guide before RTR.
For your younger, have you checked the placement chart? There's much more to placement than history period. I'd start there and see if RTR would be too much for your younger child before getting started to be sure it's not going to be over his head in content and skills. Here's the link for the placement chart: http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

If you tell us more about your kids, including your thoughts on placement, we can help you think this through!

[my3sons]

When I first read about Charlotte Mason and her ideals, I fell in love. But then I didn't know how to go about the particulars of a CM style education. HOD has done this for me, and I am ever so thankful. Amazing living books? Check. Copywork linked to learning? Check. Guidance on how to do oral narration? And on written narration? Check. Check. Christ an integral part of learning? Check. Time for the outdoors and handicrafts since school doesn't take alllllll day? Check. Picture study? Check. Art and music appreciation? Check. Check. Learning about all subject matter by reading living books written by authors passionate about one thing? Check. Yep. HOD has it all, and it's made a CM style of education a joy and a success in our home. It can do that for you too!

Looking at the placement chart, where would you say your younger child places? Because more than likely your older child would do just fine with any HOD guides. Can your younger child meet the requirements of RTR? Or is a younger guide more fitting? I'd love to hear more about your dc, and I am looking forward to getting to know you here on the HOD Board. This board is full of wonderful, encouraging ladies! You've come to a good place.

In Christ,
Julie

[1blessedmom]

Mom2Monkeys, thank you for the reminder that there's more to placement than history You are so very right...it's amazing how one can focus on one thing to the exclusion of others! So, I have been making use of the placement guide and looking over the younger guide samples. I am considering Preparing for him next year (he will be 11 and in "6th grade") because I can see how it lays a wonderful foundation in CM that I have been unable to provide, being so new to the method. The work in Preparing is much less than he has been doing, though, and he is such a bright boy that I am afraid that he will be "insulted" or bored. He already works his way almost independently through Apologia science books--he covered Land Animals this year and is ready to start his second God's Design book! He has a natural way with language, is very witty and energetic.

Julie, what you described is exactly my impression of HOD. It's nice to see that it's not just a dream but a reality! Since there is not a sample of the new guide available yet, I looked over the Res to Ref sample. I feel pretty confident that he could handle the work load, especially with Carrie's wonderful leading. Maybe we can take the rest of this year and instead of focusing on history, work on the foundational narration skills to be ready for the new RTR. Any recommendations for doing that?

My older student (15 ds) is also very bright, but more introspective and quiet. He doesn't give himself credit for how intelligent he really is...he's one of those people who sees things in a totally different way--that usually ends up being a much BETTER way to do things! He's a problem solver and very creative. However, his language arts skills definitely need some work. It's the subject he dreads. His writing would be all one-word answers, if left up to him. He's very "efficient" with words

You have been so kind and welcoming! I can tell that there is a wonderful sense of community here, and I thank you for making me feel a part of it! Blessings!

(Oh, btw, I am so blessed to be able to go to the Midwest Homeschool Convention in Cincinnati coming up in April...do you think there will be samples of the new guide to look through? )

[1blessedmom]

So, after doing some reading here, I'm still kind of confused as to what to do. I thought that maybe I could use the new Rev to Rev guide left side with both boys (then 1oth and 6th grade), and then I could do maybe Preparing right side with my 6th grader. But looking at the samples, science is included on the right side, and he has already covered both of the Apologia Zoology and Astronomy books.

I don't know...maybe I just like HOD so much that I'm trying too hard to make it work for our situation. Maybe I should just continue coming up with my own curriculum...but I am just floundering in how to guide them through narration and written narrations. Our lessons are going in one ear and out the other because I don't know how to have them act on each lesson in a CM way.

....time to breathe and pray!

[pjdobro]

Welcome 1blessedmom! I understand your reason for coming to HOD. It was one of the very reasons that I chose HOD in the first place. I really wanted to implement a CM philosophy, but I was at a loss at how to put it into practice. For me it was still very early in my journey. It sounds like you have already traveled the journey for a while and learned many things, but I'm sure you'll still gain much from HOD.

I am a bit confused to what you are thinking in your plan. The science in Preparing doesn't include either of the Apologia books nor does the new Rev to Rev guide (see the sticky at the top of the board for what is in Rev to Rev). Were you thinking of doing science from one of the other guides? I'm thinking since there are two science options in Rev to Rev, you might just choose the younger option for your younger ds and the older option for your older ds.

I know around here we talk about the right-side of the guide and the left-side a lot, but try not to get too caught up in that. What we're really talking about is using the core of the program (Learning through History) elements and adjusting the basics (math and language arts) to the level that the dc needs. Sometimes the science will be from the same guide as the history which I think it is good idea if it is an appropriate level of science for your dc. Probably what you will be doing is using Rev to Rev with the science and then adjusting the basics (math and language arts) to the level that your ds needs. At least I'm guessing that is the direction you are leaning. In looking at the placement chart, is this where they place?

[1blessedmom]

pjdobro, thank you so much for your reply

I should have been a little more clear...if I "back up" with the basics for my younger using the Preparing guide, in the years after he will have to proceed through CTC and RTR which both use the Apologia books.

But, you're right. I should look into the science from the new guide to see if it would suit him, too. See, I really do need to breathe--everything is running together inside my head and not coming out very coherently!

Our plan right now is:
5th/9th covering Am/World History from 1500-1800
6th/10th 1800-1900 (1oth government)
7th/11th 1900-present (11th ecomonics)

They each have their own American history that they read on their own, and we do the World history together using the Foster books World of John Smith, William Penn, and George Washington. However, we've fallen behind a little, and I may have to skip the Penn book. Our narrations/ compositions are not going well, mainly because I am having trouble trying to piece together myself those components of the CM education and a steady progression into deeper skills. The lessons aren't sticking!

What I was thinking we might do is stop history and concentrate on those foundational CM skills this year with their other subjects. We could pick up next year with the new Rev to Rev guide together, at least for the history portion. Is that a good idea, or should I just plod along?


I should add a plea here, as well....are there any resources that work the teacher through the step by step process of developing those narration skills with their students? Carrie seems to do it so well in her guides.

[Carrie]

1blessedmom,

The ladies are doing a great job of discussing possible options with you! As you think through what would be the best fit for your two kiddos, I'll encourage you to do a few things that will really help make it clearer as to where they fit best.

First, put aside any thoughts of which history cycle your students have covered, except for perhaps your high school student only if it certain history requirements must be met for credit. Next, set aside any ponderings about which science texts your students may have already used. Last, place your students as individuals, putting aside any thoughts of combining. Use the first page only of the placement chart to place each student.

If you do these things, you will truly see where each child fits best and in which program. Correct placement in HOD is based on the skills shown on the first page of the placement chart, because those skills are required to complete all areas of the guide. So, if you place a child based on the history cycle or on the science program, you may have an inaccurate placement, making all of the rest of the guide a poor fit. This would be compounded in the years to come, as one guide prepares a child very well for the next guide in line!

So with that in mind, here is a link to the placement chart: http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

If you get a chance to pop back and share where each of your students fit as individuals on the first page only of the chart, then we can help you fine-tune their placement! I know this will feel different than the approach used for placement found in other homeschool companies, but you'll find the reason for this to be that at HOD the skills are very important in placement. This is because CM type skills build from guide to guide (as well as the difficulty of the material and how the skills are applied). Even if you end up reusing a science text or a history text that you may have already read, you'll find that when the text is done in the CM style used in our guides (and likely is read independently by the student), it will feel completely different! We have had this experience ourselves with our own oldest son, as have other moms on the board who have repeated a text. My oldest son even had to repeat a history cycle he'd just done when we switched to a more CM-style curriculum. It still worked well, and he gained so much!

We look forward to hearing back from you when you get a chance.

Blessings,
Carrie

[my3sons]

Mom2Monkeys, thank you for the reminder that there's more to placement than history You are so very right...it's amazing how one can focus on one thing to the exclusion of others! So, I have been making use of the placement guide and looking over the younger guide samples. I am considering Preparing for him next year (he will be 11 and in "6th grade") because I can see how it lays a wonderful foundation in CM that I have been unable to provide, being so new to the method. The work in Preparing is much less than he has been doing, though, and he is such a bright boy that I am afraid that he will be "insulted" or bored. He already works his way almost independently through Apologia science books--he covered Land Animals this year and is ready to start his second God's Design book! He has a natural way with language, is very witty and energetic.

I'd be glad to help! I think you have a good idea here to use Preparing Hearts for His Glory for your sixth grader, and I would simply add the Extension Package for him to extend the history for Preparing Hearts for His Glory. The LA requirements will be a challenge for him, and this is an excellent guide for learning how to teach Charlotte Mason skills to our dc. The following year, in Creation to Christ, your ds will then be ready to do what is asked of him to do independently, independently, as he will have CM style LA skills in place. He can join his older brother for science by using HOD's guide coming out, "Revival to Revolution". Your older ds would just do the advanced "Exploration Education" kit, while your sixth grader would do the intermediate "Exploration Education" kit. This would work great!

In Christ,
Julie

P.S. I was posting the same time as Carrie, but she gave good solid advice there, and I was going to ask for more information about where each of your sons placed individually on the placement chart next anyway - especially your oldest ds. If your sixth grader does not place in PHFHG, than please share that too, and we'll talk about a new plan for him! Let me just encourage you that we are going to help you find a placement that works well for your dc, and then you are going to love your year teaching CM style happily with excellent guidance, and without the stress! Placement takes some time, but then you have the entire year to enjoy after it.

[pjdobro]

I should have been a little more clear...if I "back up" with the basics for my younger using the Preparing guide, in the years after he will have to proceed through CTC and RTR which both use the Apologia books.

I'm sorry I misunderstood. It was before I was fully caffeinated for the day! Carrie brought up a great point that even if your ds has used a book before, it will probably be used in a different way so it won't be as big of a deal as you think. I know we ended up using several of the same books that we had used before coming to HOD and it did feel very different the second time. My dc didn't remember that much from the first time around and with the activities that were planned to go with the books, it felt very different the second time around and they remembered it this time!

I should add a plea here, as well....are there any resources that work the teacher through the step by step process of developing those narration skills with their students? Carrie seems to do it so well in her guides.

I'm sure you've read all of the typical CM books by Charlotte Mason herself, Karen Andreola, Elaine Cooper, etc. I think the best way to learn how to implement the CM way of learning is to do HOD. Carrie plans everything so that you as the teacher are gently guiding your students in narration, dictation, etc. The appendix of the guides have more guidelines for the teacher that help. This board is a great resource into learning more about implementing these skills. I feel like I am constantly learning more myself. Here is a recent discussion on narration that has really helped me: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8118&st=0&sk=t&sd=a You can search out many topics of discussion here on the board and learn a lot. You've come to the right place!

[1blessedmom]

Boy, I was just checking in again really quickly before we head out (we're taking the kids to a hotel with some friends to swim and play games for the night...long, cold, wet Michigan winter!! )....and I find a WEALTH of guidance and support from you all!! Talk about above and beyond the call of duty!

I am excited to be able to mull over your thoughts and to ponder the correct placement. I will definitely get back here, hopefully late tomorrow or Sunday, to post my initial conclusions.

Again, WOW! is all I can say! You ladies are truly phenomenal! (I wish you had a hug smiley!!! )

[1blessedmom]

So with that in mind, here is a link to the placement chart: http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

If you get a chance to pop back and share where each of your students fit as individuals on the first page only of the chart, then we can help you fine-tune their placement!

Actually, I had a few moments before hubby gets home, so I looked at the first placement grid. Honestly I could put both boys in CTC level skills, with the exception of ds 15 in math (he's doing Alg 2). He's not a "language-oriented" person, but ds 10 is a natural with language. My oldest has a great deal of intelligence inside his head, but without oral or written language skills it's difficult to get it out of him! I think he feels that if he can't do it "right," he doesn't want to do it at all. He's put up this wall, with writing especially.

I haven't done actual diagramming with my younger yet, but he is very good at the parts of speech, so I don't forsee that being a problem at all.

Thank you again so very much for your help with this! What a wonderful testimony you all are!

[1blessedmom]

Does anyone have any further ideas on this? I've been wracking my brain about this and wondering if I am just out of luck in the opportunity to use HOD, especially being able to use it with both guys together.

Sorry if I sound a little desperate...I guess I am! I feel exhausted mentally trying to figure it out, since it affects my plans for the rest of this year as well. I can't tell you how much I appreciate all your help so far, you all are such a wealth of guidance and encouragement! Thank you again!

[my3sons]

Thanks for sharing about your dc, and I think I would do CTC with both of them! I like this idea because it will help with those CM skills especially. I also like it for you - as they are placing in the same guide according to the placement chart anyway - then combining is a wonderful idea! No more stressing m'dear! I think you can easily combine them and have a great HOD year!

In Christ,
Julie

[1blessedmom]

I only have a quick moment...my little 2 yo dd is not feeling well. She's with Dad for a few moments.

My biggest concern about CTC, other that we just did the Ancients 2 years ago, is that my oldest won't ever get to American history past 1800. He only has 3 years left!