Singapore Questions

[shellbell]

Howdy all! I'm new here, have posted a couple times. We just started Bigger this week with my two older DS. I had some questions I was wondering if anyone could help me in regards to seeing if Singapore would work better for one of my sons.

We are currently using a mastery math program for my sons. It has worked well...till lately with one son this year. He just doesn't seem to remember how to do previous things. He can do the math and gets most of it correct, but if in the review something comes up that he hasn't done for a couple days he can have a hard time, esp. with carrying and borrowing. If he hasn't done any carrying for a couple days and then there are some carrying problems in the review he will often get them wrong, and we have been doing carrying and borrowing for a long time, so it isn't a brand new concept. (For example 45+38=83, but his answer will be 713, because he forgets to carry, and will just write down 13, then add the 4+3 and write that answer). Same thing happens with borrowing, he doesn't remember to borrow, so he can't figure out the problem. Once I remind him how to do it he says, "Oh yeah." and then will get them all correct. If I see that there is carrying or borrowing in his assignment and go over it before he does it, he has no problems. I've tried explaining and giving him steps to help remember, but he just doesn't usually remember on his own. (I am going to write out the steps on a note card and put them with his math stuff where he can look at it to see if that will help better, I know that memorizing doesn't come very easy for him). My mom thinks he thinks in 3-D, because he loves to build and can make just about anything out of paper and tape, so I am wondering if I am just not explaining the why of these processes in a way he can get. I've heard that Singapore is good at explain the why behind how math is done. But I've also heard that there isn't much review in Singapore and I don't know how he would do with out having some review of past concepts. I don't know if I should just keep practicing with him and give him time, or maybe switch to Singapore.
Money is of course an issue. Singapore is much more expensive then what we are using, so that is why I am doing a lot of praying and seeking counsel, instead of just buying it and giving it a try. I know that if he should be using Singapore the Lord will provide the money, so I am not worried about the cost, but don't want to waste money just to try something if I am not really sure about it. I hope that makes sense! (oh if it helps he is in 3rd grade and would probably start with Singapore 2A)
I would appreciate any thoughts!
Thank you so much!

[pjdobro]

I had an idea for you. Since you are just beginning Bigger and you think your son would place in 2A, why not try the hands on activities in Bigger and see how that goes? He might just really need to do the hands on activities to cement the ideas in his head. You could either systematically go through the hands on activities daily as they are written or you could try to find the ones that seem to work on the concepts he is struggling with and use only those. You could probably continue with your current program and just add in the hands on activities and see how that goes.

ETA: As I thought about this more, I realized if you did want to give Singapore a try, the only thing you would need right now is the workbook for 2A which is $9. After using it for a while you would have a better feeling of whether you wanted to switch fully over to Singapore. The hands on math activities in Bigger plus the workbook take only about 20 minutes each day so that wouldn't be too much to add into your day if you even wanted to try it as a supplement. It certainly could replace what you are doing, but if you are feeling unsure, it wouldn't be a huge investment of time or money to just try it out.

[blessedmama]

We have been using Singapore since 1st grade and my oldest is now in 3rd grade. I really like Singapore. It has worked for my "hands on" guy and my daughter who has a little more trouble with math. They show you more than one way to do things so you can find the style that fits your child. One thing I do suggest is getting the teacher's guide. I know that HOD has activities listed in the books but I have found that the teacher's guide helps me teach the material better than just the HOD box. In the guide there are mental math problems in the back that I use for review each day. So while we may be doing fractions we are also reviewing addition, subtraction, division and multiplication with the Mental Math.

As far as cost goes...once you buy the teacher's guide and the workbook for each level, you will only need to buy the workbook for the following children. Something to think about.

I hope that helps a little.

[my3sons]

You are describing exactly why I love Singapore! Let me explain. The way your ds is using steps to complete math problems is how I learned math, and how many, many math programs teach math. I was a good math student because I remembered the steps. But, I did not have much number sense or mental math ability - if I couldn't remember the steps, I was out of luck because without my steps, I didn't know where to begin. Singapore is different. It teaches dc to think mathematically, to reason mathematically, to have strong number sense, and to have especially strong mental math skills that are incredibly useful in all types of math problems - even those dreaded math word problems. A Singapore math student (that truly has done Singapore and has learned to solve using Singapore methods) would have number sense and immediately say, "I have done something wrong in adding "45 and 38" and getting "713" for the answer, because there is no way it would equal that much - the answer should be around '90' or so. I'm probably not explaining this well, but Singapore math really ingrains thinking mathematically all of the time instead of memorizing steps. So much so, that I am making myself do problems the Singapore way. I took advanced math classes in college, and even thought about being a math teacher, but my 11 yo ds has me beat already in using mental math and in solving multi-step problems. He is not a math wiz either. He just has had Singapore math and gets it. He rarely needs scratch paper, and he rarely writes entire computation type problems out - he doesn't need to. And I can see the same thing happening with my next ds who is completing 2B.

The reason your ds can do a whole page of problems correctly once you show him one is probably because he needs someone to just show him the steps again. Without the steps, he can't figure out how to proceed. There is no reasoning there, nothing he can really "try" like trial and error to figure it out - he needs the steps. Oh he could be me! What's wrong with that, you may ask, as I obviously did fine with math even at the college level? Well, what's wrong with it is life doesn't spit problems at you that are neatly written out. Instead, life throws "mental math problems" at you, and there's nobody there with a handy dandy reminder of what steps to follow to figure them out. That kind of math just really isn't all that useful in life, and education is all about preparing our dc's hearts and mind for real living.

I want to encourage you to do the hands-on math in the HOD guide, and get the 2B workbook to do along with it. Give it some time, and don't be tempted to rush in and "save the day" by giving the "steps" to your ds. Been there. Done that. Not good. Singapore DOES come around to the steps, but by the time it does, dc either often don't need them, or more likely - are already doing them in their head anyway. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[seekhimfirst]

Just thought I'd share our experience of coming into Singapore mid-game. Our 5th, 2nd, and K started using it in the fall. Prior to that the older two used a common math program in a christian school since k until we finished it up at home last year. My 2nd grader had some similar issues with getting things confused at times with carrying and borrowing. She would forget and start with the left column first when subtracting two or three digit numbers or forget to cross out or carry. She also did a lot of finger counting. When we started Singapore she was always wanting to have numbers lined up in columns and it took a bit for her to get used to a different way of doing things. We weren't using HOD in the fall so we just moved at our own pace using text and workbooks and have gone through 1B and will finish up 2A next week. She started using Bigger about a month ago and a week or so in I remembered it had the hands on activities in the guide. I found where she was for math in the guide and she has been doing the activities and workbook only since and is doing great! I can definitely tell an improvement in her math thinking since we started Singapore. She is really thinking through things exactly like others have said instead of trying to work the steps! I am not mathy nor was I taught this way but I love it! We'll just follow along with the guide now.

I say all that to say, it may take a little while to get used to things but I have found that I don't even need to use the textbook with her and haven't had the teacher guides. An easy, inexpensive review would be to use flashcards if you want to improve the mental math speed! With my oldest I was very concerned about messing him up with switching later. He does have a harder time understanding their way but he is pretty good at math and already did a lot mentally using the steps he was taught. I wouldn't say that the switch has hurt him either. If he gets frustrated by something I let him do it the way he knows but he at least sees another way of doing it. I started him pretty low hoping he would pick up some of the Singapore way and he's worked through 3B, 4A, and will finish 4B in a couple weeks. I'm definitely not suggesting anyone go through them that fast but it's easy to expose your child to the Singapore method in a quick fashion by starting low if they already know how to do the problems another way. We started decimals, which is new to him, so he will get all Singapore for that! My youngest started out with Singapore and is doing beautifully with it and loves the math activities in the LHFHG guide as well.

[shellbell]

Please forgive me for taking sooo long to thank you all. I really appreciate the time that each of you took to type out your replies, the wonderful examples that you shared and your advice. It has really helped me to understand more about Singapore and exactly how it is different, how it could help, and why it would be good to incorporate.
Thank you again so much. You have really blessed me!
Michelle

[MrsMandy]

We are currently using a mastery math program for my sons. It has worked well...till lately with one son this year. He just doesn't seem to remember how to do previous things. He can do the math and gets most of it correct, but if in the review something comes up that he hasn't done for a couple days he can have a hard time, esp. with carrying and borrowing. If he hasn't done any carrying for a couple days and then there are some carrying problems in the review he will often get them wrong, and we have been doing carrying and borrowing for a long time, so it isn't a brand new concept. (For example 45+38=83, but his answer will be 713, because he forgets to carry, and will just write down 13, then add the 4+3 and write that answer). Same thing happens with borrowing, he doesn't remember to borrow, so he can't figure out the problem. Once I remind him how to do it he says, "Oh yeah." and then will get them all correct. If I see that there is carrying or borrowing in his assignment and go over it before he does it, he has no problems. I've tried explaining and giving him steps to help remember, but he just doesn't usually remember on his own.

Oh wow you just described our situation to a T. My son is the same way, even taking the Singapore placement he did this. There was a problem that was something like 53-25 and he just flipped the 5 and the 3 ao he could take 3 from 5. When I pointed it out to him he said he did not know what else he was supposed to do and then said, "Oh, but I don't want to" when I explained he had to borrow. He honestly thought you could take 5 from 3 by swapping them to begin with. He is 8 and even though I worried putting him in 2A would be too young and he placed in 2B (just) I think he could use the repeat of those concepts.