Planning for fall...Beyond vs Bigger 1/2 speed

[Mom2Monkeys]

You'd think I'd be able to decide this pretty easily since I've used both already with my oldest! She and DS7 are so different though, and it's a whole 'nother ballgame!
I'm trying to decide between placing him in Beyond or Bigger (half-speed) this fall. As of right this second, he places borderline into Bigger and solidly places into Beyond. He could do it easily, but since I'll talking about this fall, which is 7 months away, I know he'll be inching closer and closer into Bigger.

As I look at the plans for each, I worry Beyond will be either too easy or simply something he can do just fine but doesn't challenge him. My concern with Bigger is the vocab, writing, and possibly a concern over missing some teaching in narration from Beyond (not to mention it's just so fun !). He has no concept about looking up words in the dictionary, though I realize now as I'm typing this that he isn't meant to already know how to do these things...just meant to be ready to learn them.
With the writing, he's a boy...he's actually quite capable of writing very neatly on lined paper (kind with 2 solid and one dashed in the middle, but not the K/1st size, the smaller spaced ones), but if I remember correctly, much of the writing is for notebooking on blank paper or vocab on index cards. I'm just not sure he's ready for that as he's writing suffers when there aren't good lines. He does better with the little bit of cursive I've taught him. He's ready for it!
As for the narration, I'm not sure...he listens well. In fact, he loved listening in on DD's history readings from Bigger over a year ago. But we haven't done much by way of formal narration. He loves to be read to but I don't do it near enough

Grammar, spelling, and the like...he's in public school this semester only . He's already learning about quotation marks and other grammar concepts, so he'll be past the grammar in Beyond. They also do writing, not as in handwriting. They read a lot, though it's leveled readers for the most part. He brought home Hop on Pop the other day to read as homework (Dr. Suess). They do spelling lists and has done well with them...in the four weeks he's been there so far they've done one I can't recall, -ank/-ink/-unk, long a vs. short a, & long o vs. short o. I'm not certain if he'd need list 2 spelling words or if he may possibly be ready for dictation.

As for math, we use Math Mammoth, so that's not a big issue. I do intend to still do Carrie's hands-on activities with him. He'll be using MM2 this fall. I think he'd best place in 1B right now if we were to do Singapore though-- maybe 2A in the fall. I haven't given him a placement test, but he will cover many of the topics at school that are in Beyond. Perhaps not all of them, but many.

Reading- He'll be ready for the emerging readers, probably before the fall.

So, I think BIgger would be a challenge, but would it be too much off a challenge or just right? I KNOW we will do it half speed for most or all of the year.
Considering this fall, he will be just 4 months from turning 8, starting 2nd grade, and the above are my main concerns, which do you believe would be a better fit? I'll be also trailing an almost 2yo (Nov), a 5yo (Sept) in K4 due to missing K cutoff probably doing LHTH plus TRL/R&S workbooks or maybe half speed LHFHG (will save that for another post, another time ), and my 10yo 5th grader will be in PHFHG w/ext.

[daybreaking]

I was in almost exactly your boat last year and oh, how I wavered between Beyond and Bigger. We ended up going with Beyond, even though my ds is very bright and was almost 8 when we started. In the beginning, I still had some doubts, but now that we're about halfway through, I can say with assurance that it was the best decision for my ds. He could have done the work in Bigger, but I'm pretty sure our days would not be as pleasant and enjoyable as they are now. He's absolutely LOVING Beyond and has grown in leaps and bounds. One adjustment we did make was that we do the LA from Bigger (R&S English 2 & cursive), as he was ready for both. I do have him copy all of each poem each week, and that helps with the "challenge level." We also are doing Singapore 2 (along with R&S Math 3). One other consideration that weighed in the decision is that I didn't want my ds to miss the history in Beyond. I'm so glad I didn't, as we both have thoroughly enjoyed the "Reading about History" time. I'm amazed at all I am learning, along with my ds!

[pjdobro]

I just wanted to comment on the writing part. There is more writing in Bigger than Beyond, but you are correct that most of it is in the form of notebooking/science experiment on plain paper or the vocabulary on an index card. What I do is lightly draw lines on the paper in pencil as guide lines for my dc for the scripture verses and sometimes for other parts of the assignment as well. I used to do that very thing in drafting way back when and it is helpful. I do just draw guide lines and not a full-fledged writing line so that might not be enough for your ds. The other writing he would be doing is some for grammar but you can choose how much of that to do written and the type of paper you use. There is the poetry copy work if you want to do that. Again you can use whatever sort of paper works well. So if you choose to do Bigger, though the writing is more involved than Bigger, it is manageable even for a reluctant writer.

[Mom2Monkeys]

Thank you both for your insight.

Patty, I now remember having to do that for my oldest when we first started BHFHG with her. So, it's not a big deal really. His stamina seems good overall, it's just that neatness factor. Plus he has 7 months to mature in this area. And as many of you know, they do A LOT of written work in public school. We are fortunate that his teacher does actually care about proper letter formation and neatness, unlike a couple of the other teachers for his grade. I'll keep in mind the light lines as I continue to pray and ponder!

I should hope over to the week in review and see how other's DC do the work when they start BHFHG. I have a skewed perspective bc my oldest was sooooo ahead right from the start in just about every area (just lacked in stamina for writif but started off writing very well for her age, but it hasn't changed much since then. HAHA!). I know I can't expect that of my other dc, so I fear I am expecting too little. Overcompensating I guess you'd say.

[blessedmom]

Another way I have added more writing for Beyond is having my dd copy the verse for the week too.
Could you do Beyond double time and start Bigger after?
For my second grader this year, we have done Beyond. I too have had her copy every poem line for line, having her illustrate it at the end of the week. Recently we have doubled up in history, picking one poem to copy per week, copying a verse twice a week, choosing one activity a day, at least one Bible box, two LA a week (mostly review), one math lesson a day (she started in 1B and recently finished), doubling the storytime reading. It seems like a lot, but it's not bad. She has really blossomed into this. I really wanted her to hear the history stories from Beyond. I think the jump to Bigger without Beyond would have been hard for her to listen to the history stories. We will finish Beyond in a few weeks and start Bigger. I'm glad I didn't start Bigger at the beginning of the year. She has really enjoyed the history and she never really has wanted to listen in the past.
Just an idea.

[Mom2Monkeys]

Another way I have added more writing for Beyond is having my dd copy the verse for the week too.
Could you do Beyond double time and start Bigger after?
For my second grader this year, we have done Beyond. I too have had her copy every poem line for line, having her illustrate it at the end of the week. Recently we have doubled up in history, picking one poem to copy per week, copying a verse twice a week, choosing one activity a day, at least one Bible box, two LA a week (mostly review), one math lesson a day (she started in 1B and recently finished), doubling the storytime reading. It seems like a lot, but it's not bad. She has really blossomed into this. I really wanted her to hear the history stories from Beyond. I think the jump to Bigger without Beyond would have been hard for her to listen to the history stories. We will finish Beyond in a few weeks and start Bigger. I'm glad I didn't start Bigger at the beginning of the year. She has really enjoyed the history and she never really has wanted to listen in the past.
Just an idea.

If we needed to bump up Beyond by adding extra writing or going double speed, I'd just prefer move into Bigger. He has no trouble listening to the readings as even a year or two ago, he had no trouble listening in to Beyond/Bigger readings when his sister was in those levels. I did actually do this with my DD when she was in Beyond, because we outgrew the guide rather quickly plus had a move coming up and it would be a while before we got back to it....we didn't do the whole guide like this, just the last several units...it wasn't the relaxing enjoyable schooling I had grown to love about HOD anymore. It worked for us then though, so I do agree it's a good idea in the right situation!
Perhaps if he's needing just a bit of time to mature in prep for Bigger, but is beyond, Beyond then I could read the history books to him over the course of 2-3 months or so and focus on his narrating, handwriting, and digging into the emerging readers, and perhaps doing the math activities for 1B from the Beyond guide then starting Bigger midway through the first semester. Actually, I kinda like this idea

[Mom2Monkeys]

Ok, so I'm bumping my own post... I'd love to hear from more of you! I'd also love very much to hear from Carrie and/or Julie!

[Mom2Monkeys]

Oh ladies....I feel so confused. I keep feeling so pulled to combine my big two DC. Ive always wanted to but their abilities and ages were always so off and I had already started the HOD path with my oldest. Now, DS is moving right along in his abilities. As I said, he is 7 now and will be 8 in Decemeber. He'll be 2nd grade in the fall. I always thought I'd want to land in BHFHG in 3rd but found now that was nc I was considering my less mature DD with fine motor issues and very young for her grade.
DD will be 10 in June and starting 5th grade. I'm seriously thinking perhaps we should combine her in Bigger with extensions and add some sort of writing program for her, or maybe have her do creative writing from PHFHG poetry.

PROS: Save me time not doing multiple programs, plus DD is an excellent reader and enjoys reading aloud. She could read aloud the history and/or science for the two of them. We need something to bring these two closer. DD isn't maturing as we'd hoped in many areas like I thought she was. I don't think I could trust her to do the painting on her own in CYC the following year. Pairing these two will allow me an easier time keeping younger two with wider age gap separate. When asked about it, they both want to combine.

CONS: DD really was enjoying PHFHG for the very few units we did prior to having to put them in ps. SHe did about a third or a little more of BHFHG last school year and into some of the beginning of this school year before we decided to bump her up to PHFHG half pace. (got 4 units in and she did well). If BHFHG needed to be slowed down for DS, DD would be held back too much.

I need your help! I need simplified! What do I do?! If we decided to combine, I would do bedtime reading from BLHFHG with casual narrations with DS. Public school is handling all the basics like grammar, spelling, etc.

[my3sons]

Hi Tamara! I somehow missed this post til now, but maybe that's a good thing because I think I like this recent idea of combining your 2 dc in Bigger Hearts. Your dd can always do extensions if you are desiring more reading/independent work for her, and I think this would be a great plan for the future too. Here's a thought - maybe you could begin with BHFHG with the 2 of them, as I'm thinking you have it already anyway, (maybe not though?), and then see how it goes? If it's too hard for ds, you could back off to half-speed BHFHG or move ds back to Beyond and dd up to PHFHG? What do you think? I'd wait to begin til kiddos are out of ps though, as it'll be tough to do double school and may make dc not like it from the get-go.

In Christ,
Julie

[Mom2Monkeys]

Thanks, Julie I feel like all these ideas are jumping around all over my heard! I think this is best too. I do already have almost all of Preparing to go to for DD I'd need be, and my friend is almost done with my Beyond set so I will have that for DS if needed! Maybe all this inconsistency and public school is being used by God to bring me to a place where I can teach these two together

Should I add writing in for my 5th grader? Igniting Your Writing perhaps? Or poetry based creative writing from PHFHG, then IYW next year with the two of them in PHFHG, then both can do writing from CTC as is?

[8arrows]

I would vote for adding Igniting Your Writing if you wanted to add writing for the 5th grader. It is enjoyable. That will leave all the guides intact to use the writing as is Preparing on up. You could split Igniting Your Writing over two years if you wanted to still add a little to the writing instruction in Preparing. She will still get Write with the Best in 7th and IEW in 8th.

[Mom2Monkeys]

I would vote for adding Igniting Your Writing if you wanted to add writing for the 5th grader. It is enjoyable. That will leave all the guides intact to use the writing as is Preparing on up. You could split Igniting Your Writing over two years if you wanted to still add a little to the writing instruction in Preparing. She will still get Write with the Best in 7th and IEW in 8th.

Is the writing in Preparing not a step back from Igniting Your Writing? So, if I did it in 5th grade, would the writing in PHFHG not be too little for a 6th grader if I only used the creative writing with the poetry? I like the idea of doing IYW over two years though.

We will be doing R&S 4 for 5th grade with Bigger, R&S 5 for 6th grade with Preparing, then R&S 6 for 7th grade with CTC. So would I just do 6 half pace with CTC or should I go half pace with 5 in 6th grade in Preparing and 7th in CTC, then 6 full speed in 8th in RTR? I suddenly have a new interest in the using Rev to Rev guide for high school...hehehehe

[my3sons]

FWIW, I really liked doing R & S English daily in PHFHG, and half-speed in CTC and RTR. Taking all levels out of the decision, I thought that the plans in PHFHG left enough room for daily English, while the plans in CTC and RTR were fuller for writing requirements, in which case it was nicer to do half-speed English. So I'd probably do R & S 5 in PHFHG, and R & S 6 half-speed through CTC and RTR. However, if you get into R & S and think that's moving too quickly, you can always slow it down to half-speed in 5, and then full-speed for 6 when she's older. R & S 5 is considered to be a foundational year, so I'm looking forward to going through that with care. I responded to the writing on another post of yours, but I would agree that the intermediate and advanced portions of Igniting Your Writing would be more difficult than the creative writing in PHFHG (the basic would be similar to it). Igniting Your Writing is an excellent writing program, so that's an option too. You can check out my other response for another idea too. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie