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I'm pretty sure that I've asked this before but my account got messed up and I can't find my older posts so please forgive the repeated up-coming question.

I have a 4 yo DD and a 6 yo DS that will be having b-days in April and May. I had ordered LHTH and LHFHG (kindy package) for them. But things have worked out a bit different than I had thought. DD(4) pretty much does all of LHFHG except for any written things or reading programs. She is still learning letters and sounds and does well with the Leapfrog DVD and other items around the house for that. So I dropped LHTH because the bible stories didn't match up (she was on track with her brother in LHFHG but then we'd be back-tracking trying to do LHTH) and because she was doing everything along with him. She grasps the LHFHG math concepts well - she just hasn't developed the skill of writing the numbers so she doesn't do any yet.

DS is doing well with the program. I think he could step it up a bit but I'm trying to hang on to the idea that "less is more" right now. But I would like to see him move into Beyond soon. So I think I've got my plan worked out for him next but what do I do with DD next? Since she's not up-to-speed in the written department I don't think she'd be right for Beyond's workload.

Just not sure what to do with her without making it complicated. I hate to make her redo all of LHFHG if she's already gotten the concepts of history, kindy math, and the science parts. Plus, I know she'll be right there with DS all up in his Beyond business. So it's possible she'll be picking up the math concepts and be there for the story time, history and science. And who knows where she'll be in her reading skills at that point. I know that she wouldn't be ready for spelling or copywork though.

I'm so sorry to ask this again. It's just been a blazing concern of late and I haven't been able to work it out. Any ideas or advice is greatly appreciated!

I'm not for sure how to advise you. It sounds like you've an eager learner and that is wonderful. Hopefully this will bump up and someone else can help.

I've been giving this some thought and still don't know if this will help, but I'll share with you what I've been thinking. There is quite a step up in the level of difficulty between LHFHG and Beyond so it's possible that your dd won't be ready to even listen in with the history and storytime. If that's the case, I'm not for sure what to do except try LHFHG with her again but let it be fully her program. If you need to, you could switch up the storytime by using some of the other Burgess books and use one of the other science book options. If she does seem to get the history and science of Beyond, I'm thinking perhaps that isn't such a bad thing. It sounds kind of crazy, but what if you let her tag along with the left side of Beyond with your ds and do the right side of LHFHG with her? You could work on using the kindergarten options for reading and writing with her. I'm not for sure about the math. We didn't do the kindergarten math with Singapore or the hands on activities in LHFHG. Do you think she would mind repeating the hands on activities in LHFHG for math and then doing the kindergarten workbook as it is scheduled in LHFHG? I'm thinking if you can make this work, doing the right side of LHFHG (kindergarten options) and the left side of Beyond this year, then the following year perhaps you could do the right side of Beyond and go back to the left side of LHFHG with her. I'm thinking if it's been two years since she had done LHFHG with her brother, then it might be fresh enough for her to go revisit it on her own and a be able to fully absorb the material. Then it would be her first grade year and you could use the math and LA from Beyond and the first grade options of LHFHG. The year after, you would do Beyond with her using the math and LA from Bigger, then after that you would be on target to use just one guide since the math and LA options you would need would be in that guide. This may not be a good solution, but as I thought it over, it was the only one that came to mind.

One thing I wouldn't do is try to keep her along with your son and continue moving ahead a guide a year. Beyond is going to be a step up and even if she can handle that this year at 5, going to Bigger at age 6 would be too much. There is an even larger step up in skill level when going from Beyond to Bigger so I think you would want her to be at least 7 when she gets there.

As I reread your post, I am wondering if I understood correctly that you are thinking about what to do this fall, right? Or were you thinking about moving your son up to Beyond now?

I hope this isn't confusing and someone else has some other ideas to help you out.

Thanks for sharing about each of your dc here! With your dd still learning her letters and sounds, as well as not writing letters and numbers, it sounds like she she would place in LHTH according to the placement chart. Though she can listen to read alouds that are more mature, doing the rest of the work in Beyond will be too difficult for her, and Bigger Hearts (down the road) will be off the charts. LHFHG could work, but she has listened to the read-alouds. I am wondering about your ds. What unit is your ds working in within LHFHG? Is he doing all of it? I guess - can you describe his reading, writing, etc. skills a little bit? I am wondering how large the gap between your ds and dd is, and if it's worth slowing down your oldest quite a bit so your younger dd can join him, or if that is just way too much unnecessary tweaking? Many times our oldest dc just take off, probably because at one point they were our "one and only" and we lavished learning and attention upon them. Plus, first-borns are just usually go-getters. Carrie wrote an excellent post in regard to this that may be beneficial to read:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6155

If you could share some about your ds, I'd like to help chat through this with you. For now, I'd think dd could do LHTH with the upper level options, or possibly half-speed LHFHG with the K options - not sure about ds - but we can chat more about that
In Christ,
Julie

PS - Patty and I were typing at the same time. Thanks, Patty, for talking through this too!

Thank you both so much for the time and thought you put into your replies. It really means so much!

DS is still going through a phonics/beginning reading program (clickn'kids). He is what I would call a borderline emerging reader. His writing skills are steadily improving - he is able to write 1 sentence copywork. I started having him do copywork, using a sentence from the story chapter we read that day, instead of the handwriting program. He put up quite a fuss about the program but does better with copywork. He's doing well with the math area. In fact, I think he could handle a bit more but I'm just making sure he's got a good solid foundation. DD has really good comprehension skills and loves to be read to. And she also possesses a great understanding about "things". When she was a late 3/early 4 yo she commented on a picture I have that shows the trial of Jesus. So I explained what was happening, who was who, etc. And she pondered for a moment, then said, "So Jesus is God?" I had to pick my jaw up off the floor because I hadn't tried to make that connection for her. I had just explained things as simply as I could to give a general idea of what it was about. Overall she has a remarkable handle on spiritual matters.

I'm hoping to start DD soon in a formal phonics program (she already knows some of her letters and sounds) and I'd like to start encouraging her fine motor skills a bit more. I pulled her out of LHTH because she was just doing so well with the LHFHG activities. She knows her numbers quite well, can count up to 30 at least, is beginning to recognize bigger numbers....all without a formal math program.

Between the two of them DD is the go-getter and DS is the one who would be perfectly happy to never do "school" again. He genuinely doesn't like any of it. He would be such an ideal candidate for the unschooling approach but I just don't have enough courage or faith in that ... so suffer he must.

We're only a third of the way through LHFHG because we took a bit of a break at the end of the year but I was actually thinking of starting him in Beyond around his birthday at the end of May rather than wait til fall. For DD I was thinking of just continuing on with LHFHG through the summer and then start her on the left side of Beyond while continuing to keep her on level with math, writing, and starting the Burgess books over again (since she's the the book lover I don't think she'd mind this part). Just a thought.........still trying to think it out though.

It is such a blessing that your dd is already opening her heart to the Lord and loving learning about Him. That is one of our priorities in homeschooling, so she'd fit right in at our house too! Boys - well, yes - I have 3 of them, and they typically just take a different approach to learning than girls do. It's neat to see the difference in God's design for boys and girls, and also even just the difference in His design for each of my boys as they each have their own loves in school that are unique to their interests. Your family sounds like it is full of fun variety too!

As you contemplate placement within HOD, one thing that I've learned moving from LHTH through RTR over the years is that for my dc to thrive and get the most out of their learning within the next guide in line, they need to have been able to do everything asked of them from the previous guide. This building of skills in each academic subject each year that HOD incrementally teaches is very different from other curriculums that may take a more horizontal approach to learning, where each year is quite open-ended, looks relatively the same as the previous year, and therefore a student could be placed within any of the years and do the work asked of him easily - as there are not increased learning guidelines from year to year. Simply increasing the level of read alouds does not increase academic rigor for dc in the same way that teaching them specific skills in each subject area does. The way that HOD so solidly moves dc through required academic skills from year to year is the reason why placement is important within HOD. It is an incredible blessing that HOD writes guides in this manner, for I can see my dc are increasing in their skills every year and steadily heading toward secondary level material with many integral skills needed already intact.

So, while dd is able to listen well to more difficult reading material, and that is definitely a good thing , this is less important in placement than these skills noted in the placement chart for dc to be ready to begin all of LHFHG: ready for phonics instruction; ready to learn formal manuscript printing or able to begin writing words, use oral language skills to prepare for grammar study, ready for formal introduction to math concepts with daily hands-on math practice (which includes writing in the workbook each day). Likewise, for ds, these skills noted in the placement chart for dc to be ready to begin all of Beyond: finishing phonics, an emerging reader, or reading independently; knows how to form uppercase and lowercase letters, able to copy sentences, can study and copy spelling words; ready for gentle introduction to the basic parts of speech, mechanics and usage; has had a formal introduction to basic math and is ready for new concepts with hands-on activities. Another somewhat "hidden" needed skill is a student being ready for the length of school each day. The times for doing school begin with very short amounts (i.e. LHTH takes 20-30 minutes), but by Bigger Hearts for His Glory the time begins to lengthen (i.e. BHFHG takes around 3 to 3 1/2 hours).

I'm saying this for your situation as well as for any other ladies reading this thread who are considering placement. When looking at the placement chart, if dc cannot do the skills noted for beginning a program, they should more than likely do the previous program. Tweaking so writing and reading skills especially are not as rigorous as they are intended to be in a guide seems to work until Bigger Hearts. I say "seems to" because really dc are not receiving the full benefit of the program if they are not learning and using the skills written in the plans. For example, by the end of "Beyond" copying the entire poem, say, for example, prepares them to do notebooking pages in Bigger Hearts. By the end of LHFHG, having been through a formal handwriting program that teaches proper formation of the letters, helps them be ready for the copywork of Beyond. By the end of LHTH, say, for example, knowing their letters, a sound for each, and able to complete the "Count on Me" and "Hide and Seek Letter" pages quite well by using the pencil or a marker themselves, prepares them for doing a handwriting program in LHFHG. The best way to be sure dc are prepared for the next guide is to complete the previous guide, provided the dc were placed accurately to begin with.

This is why I would finish out LHTH with your dd so she knows her letters, sounds, and has beginning writing skills. Then she will be ready for all of LHFHG. She's only done less than 1/3 of LHFHG anyway, since she started with LHTH. For your ds, he is on the fence between LHFHG and Beyond. Because he is reluctant to do handwriting, and in the beginning stages of phonics nearing the Emerging Reader's Set, I'd be inclined to finish out LHFHG. You could continue to challenge your dd's read aloud comprehension ability by doing the LHFHG Storytime reading with the 2 of them, and focus on the questions in the back, which lead dc to beginning oral narration skills. Then, when ds does Beyond, you could certainly continue to combine them for their read aloud time.

Another option would be to double-time it through LHTH with dd, doing 2 lessons a day, to get in place those skills dd is needing for LHFHG. She could then begin LHFHG totally prepared. Another option for ds would be to begin Beyond half-speed, but I would weigh whether that is really a good idea for him, as you said - he is a boy - and this could get him to Bigger before he's ready. I just want the long term HOD to work for you, and Bigger Hearts is the point at which it becomes obvious if dc have moved through the lower guides too quickly without truly being able to do what's asked of them from year to year. I hope this helps as you consider what you'd like to do.

In Christ,
Julie

Julie,

You have given so much! Your time, your thoughts, your ideas.....wow! What a blessing you are! I've read your post through but I'd like to come back to it later tonight when I have some quiet time to really digest your advice. But from what I gather from the first reading is that it would be better to have them finish out their respective programs (LHTH for DD and LHFHG for DS). Then start them in the next level - LHFHG for DD and Beyond for DS? So that would put DD starting LHFHG at about age 5.5. Then she would move into Beyond at 6.5? hmmm....typing out loud here......maybe do LHFHG half-speed for her so that it stretches things out and then place her in Beyond at 7.5 instead....OR....start Beyond at 6.5 but do that half-speed and stretch that one for a couple of years...... Depending on how she handles the skills area of LHFHG I think I like the idea of stretching Beyond for her vs stretching LHGHG but only by getting in there and actually doing it will I know for sure, I suppose.

I'm sorry for not being able to really get a good handle on a plan here. DD seems she will always be on the younger end of the scale and DS will always be on the older end. But she seems so ahead of the game in alot of areas and I don't want to squelch her learning but don't want to put too much on her either. I do think waiting til fall to place DS in Beyond is the better choice. I think he'll be more prepared by then.

Thank you again!

Blessings in Christ...
Whitney
ETA: I wanted to add that just recently my entire family was baptised (DH and I did a reaffirmation). But my oldest two made the choice on their own to do so and I fully believe that decision was made because we gleaned so much from the HOD programs. I believe through HOD their hearts were opened and it is such a beautiful thing. Just wanted to share.

I find such wisdom in all of Julie's posts as well. The thinking behind the placement and moving from guide to guide was helpful to me as well. It's always nice to step back and look at the big picture and the thinking behind the guides and the skills they teach. HOD is such a well thought out plan!

It sounds to me like you would be right on target with your dd to finish out LHTH this year and then progress through the guides at normal pace. She might be on the young end of the guide, but as long as she is mastering the skills in the previous guide then she will be ready to move onto the next.

Congratulations on your reaffirmation of faith and your dc accepting Christ! That is awesome!!!

Thank you Patty! It was a wonderful day for all involved!

It was good to hear your thoughts on this, and I do think it would be better for dd to finish out LHTH and ds to finish out LHFHG. Those guides seem easy, but every single skill in them prepares dc for the next guide to come, and making sure dc can do it all well before moving on is a homeschool mom's best friend for making the next guide go smoothly. After finishing out those guides, I like your idea of stretching either LHFHG or Beyond for dd, whichever she seems to benefit from doing half-speed. Of course you can always begin half-speed, and then up to full-speed at anytime with LHFHG, and likewise with Beyond after that. We have taken advantage of HOD's flexibility in this manner with our last 2 dc, and it has been a terrific way to match the pacing to what each child needs. HTH - and thanks for your kinds words, and Patty thank you as well!

In Christ,
Julie