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Does anyone else have an issue where the child understands the math problem, but gets confused when you do the hands on stuff?

I thought it was just DD1 and her way of thinking/learning, but DD2 is completely different from DD1 and the hands on things completely confuse her as well. So unless it looks like something they'd just super love, I skip them... and typically when I actually do them, I do more harm than good.

An example, with DD1 the other day we did the "game" where we each wrote down a 3 digit number and took turns subtracting either 100 or 10 to see who would get closest to 0 at the end. Well, before we did this game, she completely got it... no problems whatsoever with subtracting 100 or 10 from a 3 digit number. After we played the game, and during it, she got so confused....

Does anyone else have children who cannot seem to understand the hands on part of math, but get the concepts anyway?

My oldest son (now 12) is this way. When he was little I started doing a popular "hands on " math program, but the manipulatives were a hinderance and some games confused him more than helped. I switched him back to a traditional textbook math approach and he has done very well. My other kids however did well with some hands on work. Some hands on activities may be more useful than others. Just use the activities that you think she will benefit from. If she already has a concept down and a game starts to confuse it, I would stop and reinforce the skill in a way that works for her. HOD is flexible and allows us to adapt a little to our child's learning styles. I will say though that the games Carrie chooses are often designed to help the child think differently and not just rote memorize facts. So sometimes stretching them a little so they have a practical understanding of WHY is important. Just evaluate each activity and decide if it will reinforce or not, but don't toss the activities aside all together.

The game is taking a skill (subtracting 100 or 10 from a 3 digit number successfully) and applying it. Your child actually has to figure out what it means to subtract 100 or 10 from a number. It is the equivalent of a story problem and yes, many children have a difficult time with the application part of math. You might go through the game step by step and help her figure out what she would want to do in each step, or even devise another activity to help her get it. I often make up other little games or worksheets for my son to help cement an application. Although it might not be the easiest part for the student, this is actually an important part for the brain and will make those skills solid.

countrymom...

what I was saying is that as we went through the game, she understood it less and less. She understood it BEFORE the game, but could not understand it after the game. It confused her.... It did not solidify the method in her mind. It made it go completely OUT of her mind.

what I was saying is that as we went through the game, she understood it less and less. She understood it BEFORE the game, but could not understand it after the game. It confused her.... It did not solidify the method in her mind. It made it go completely OUT of her mind.

That makes sense. It actually happens all the time with children and math. She has the skill one way, but in trying to apply it in another way she lost it. If you can pinpoint what made her get confused while doing the game. Did she not understand how the number was decreasing? Then have her practice some skills that would help her with that. Ditch the game and come back later. Sorry I can't offer more concrete suggestions, but it is hard to know for sure what went wrong for her. My son has "lost" a skill more than once in math. I backtracked, did a variety of activities that were skills he would have needed and eventually came back to the original skill. Finally I went back to the game or application. There is a great book that gives a good look at learning, particularly in math. It is "How Children Fail" by John Holt. He spent a lot of time observing and teaching in elementary classrooms, did a lot of research and came up with some startling observations. Sometimes I just make a note to keep going and see how my son does. Maybe it is something that is overcome down the road. I do make sure I mark it down so I can go back later and determine if this was indeed a problem or not. I don't know if anything I have said has helped or not, but if nothing else trying to relay you are not alone.

haha... quite honestly I think she got bored with it since she KNEW it before and lost track of what we were doing. But it messed her up even for the next day until I told her to forget the game and do the math

So, if you drop the game, can she do the math outside of the worksheet? Can she apply the lesson she was to learn? Many times, one of my children can "understand" a worksheet, complete it with every answer right, be able to do it weeks or months down the road, and then time to acctually USE the math and it's compelete comfusion. In other words, they didn't truly learn it. My goal is not that my children can do the work. They'll likely not truly need the skill to complete pages of math problems in their adult lives but the skills from those pages are skills they should be able to understand, use, and use well. I'd drop the game aspect if needed, but make sure she can apply the math in many different ways by using the skill in everyday life. i.e. I only have 4 eggs. I need ten more...see if we have that many please." or "I have 62 cents here...oh here's a dime! How much is that?" or play another kind of regular games, cards or whatever...You've got 234 points....answer this question to score a hunderd more! and have her be the score keeper. Play a game and let her keep score where all the point values are 10 and 100...wrong answers subtract and right ones add. The application is so super important!!

yes! It's just when I do the activities in the guide. Even if they don't know that's where it came from. But other real life applications they get it. So I'm just moving on with it and assuming that I'll know when they truly don't understand it

Lora Beth,

The ladies are doing a great job of discussing the value of applying a math concept to real life. As the parent, you can certainly decide whether to include the hands-on lessons or not, however I will mention that I believe in the lesson you're describing the game was meant to be played before doing the workbook as it was meant to set the stage for the learning that would be coming in the workbook.

All of our hands-on math lessons are typically meant to introduce the concept prior to doing the workbook, as they are meant to allow the child to make the connection between what they did in the activity and what is being asked of them on the workbook page. I am assuming that in doing the workbook page first you explained "how" to do the problems, instead of allowing the activity to introduce this, and then followed up with the activity at the end. By doing the hands-on activity last, in reverse order of the way it is written in the teacher's guide, I can see where it might be confusing.

In future lessons, I'd do the hands-on activity first (as it is meant to replace the textbook introduction to the lessons). Then, follow-up with the workbook assignment, and I think you'll find the lessons make more sense this way allowing the child to connect the two. During my 11 years as a public school teacher I found with my hundreds of kiddos in the classroom that the hands-on lessons worked best as an introduction, which the children could continue to use during the assignment as needed. Then, the assignment worked well as a follow-up. We have found this to be true in our own home the last 10 years as well.

Before giving up the activities, I will encourage you that although some kiddos need less hands-on activities than others to do the "computation" required in math, the hands-on activities do require "higher-level thinking and reasoning" which goes beyond basic computation. So, if you do skip the activities regularly, you are actually missing out on an opportunity to have your kiddos "think mathematically". By 2A/2B, the hands-on activities are replaced by more pictorial problems within the textbook, so the hands-on window is only from K to grade 2.

Blessings,
Carrie

I did do the activity first... I had to reread my post to see what you were talking about. I meant that before the activity (pretty much any activity) she has understood the concepts (she's a natural at math) but that the activities confuse her from understanding a concept to not being able to do it after the activity. My second DD is following along this path it seems.

I do explain math to them.... we pretty much do math and science all the time because that's where mine and dh's strength's are. In fact, some of the hands on stuff that we are coming to are things we've done before. Like using money to count by 1s and 10s in the Beyond guide. So that's how I know for certain that they understand it before hand. But it's almost like overkill in their minds. Kind of.... at the beginning of the hands on activity they are all fired up and saying "OH! It's like when we did xyz!" and then around the middle of it they are getting that glazed look, and then by the end they just can't do it any more.... The only thing I've found that "helps" with this is letting it sit overnight and having them do the workbook the next day, or doing the hands on first thing in the day and having them do the workbook later on. Separate the two things a bit.