Question for Carrie...OR

[Tree House Academy]

maybe someone else can link me if this has been asked and answered before.

Why do you not use/plan to stay with Singapore after 6B? I have been hearing good things about New Elementary Math as of late and was just curious as I know you have probably looked at this option before.

Thanks!

[Tree House Academy]

bump.

[water2wine]

Rebecca I have almost answered you a few times. I somewhat remember that it was an issue with the use of rods vs number lines. I somewhat remember they use a different system we do in the US and there was concern about that. Just wanted to give you what I kinda remember while you are waiting for Carrie.

[Carrie]

Rebecca,

I intended to reply to this earlier, and then it went down the board without me getting back to it in time. So, I apologize, and I appreciate your patience!

Math is one of those areas that we are weighing carefully by working through things with our own two oldest kiddos prior to making recommendations. My oldest son has done much of what is out there for math, except he was always beyond the Singapore series as the U.S. editions weren't out for his age as he went through his school years (and I wasn't comfortable with Singapore until the U.S. editions arrived). So, this makes my oldest son a trial child in the math area, but also means we must lean on son number 2 when weighing where to go next after Singapore math (as my son number 2 has used Singapore since he began in kindergarten).

In the past, we had pretty much ruled out New Elementary Math as a follow-up after Singapore 6B, as it seems to take pretty huge leaps in understanding without significant explanation (and also does not have answer keys for the books 3 and 4). Now though, Singapore has come out with a Discovering Mathematics series (new in 2008, I believe) that is definitely worth a look. My understanding is that it is somewhat easier than the New Elementary Math Series, has better explanations, is designed more similarly to the Singapore Primary Math Series books 1-6 (that we carry and schedule), has answer keys for all 4 levels, has an A and B level each year, and has problems that begin more basic and move toward more challenging in the lessons. It also now has a workbook with additional practice problems.

One concern with the series is that it integrates Pre-Algebra, Algebra I, Geometry, and Algebra II concepts within each of the 4 books in the series. This is different than the traditional scope and sequence here in the U.S. It does seem to give much of the needed coverage, but is not conveniently divided into each of the various maths for transcript purposes. How far it goes into geometric proofs would be something to look at more closely, as this area may not go as far. It would appear that the series would leave off at a Trigonometry/Calculus type level, which would come next if desired.

One possible thought if one wished to continue with the Singapore method, by using the Discovering Mathematics series, would be to add a program such as Life of Fred to each of the Discovering Mathematics years. Using Pre-Algebra with DM1, Algebra with DM2, and so on. I have to really get into looking through the series more thoroughly to see whether this would be a possibility. As the years pass, I am becoming more of a Singapore math fan each year. I'd hate to forego the thinking found within Singapore to do something completely traditional instead, if there is a viable Singapore alternative. So, I like the thought of exploring this option more deeply.

Singapore also carries a New Syllabus Math, which I think appears to be light on explanation, requiring leaps in understanding (more similar to the reasons we did not like the looks of New Elementary Math). Singapore also carries a New Mathematics Counts series, which is a revision that seems easier in its problem sets to the point of not including much of what people love about the Singapore method. But, I have only looked at samples and so do not know if this impression is fully correct.

Anyway, those are my current thoughts. I will be receiving all of the Discovering Mathematics series to take a good hard look.

Blessings,
Carrie

[moedertje]

Thank you Carrie for taking the time to prayerfully research curriculum. I am only in 2B with ds #1, so we have a little way to go. May the Lord guide you in your decisions and recommendations to us.
Just like unit 18 BHFHG says: Many plans are in a man's heart, but the counsel of the Lord will stand. Prov. 19:21.
I pray that the Lord himself will counsel you as you make recommendations and that we as parents also seek the Lord's wisdom as we home educate our children
Looking forward to seeing what He shows you
Blessings and success!

[Tree House Academy]

Thank you for taking time to answer so thoroughly. I really trust your opinions as I know you are very thorough in your choices for the guide recommendations.

I see what you are saying about taking big leaps without a lot of explanation...we couldn't do that! I am not good enough in math to explain the leaps properly (or at least I don't feel confident that I could). I also, like you, am not sure how the integrated algebra/geometry/etc would work for transcript purposes and I definitely don't want to hinder that. I will be looking forward to your recommendations if future guides as we are just getting through 4B this year and we do have time to think on it as well.

My son loves Life of Fred so much that he does it on his days off (4 day a week schedule then co-op on day 5) and he does it in his free time! He giggles like mad when reading the stories. Life of Fred is a real hit as a "review" type math for us.

[Mommamo]

Thanks Carrie for sharing your thoughts about all of that! We have a long time to go until we get there. We're just on 2A, but it really is good to hear some ideas on how we could keep going. We started with RightStart Math (and will start there with our younger ones as well) and we found that Singapore was great for continuing the kind of thinking foundation we have from RightStart, so I, like you, would really hate to have to transition to something more traditional. I personally like the idea of the subjects being integrated for the older kids. To me, that honestly seems to make more sense than dividing it up like they do these days. So it seems that math, along with Life of Fred which we wanted to use anyway, would be perfect for when the kiddos get there. I hope the Singapore actually ends up looking good to you! And if it doesn't, I really trust your judgement and I know you'll find something fabulous. You are in my prayers constantly as you research and write your curriculum.

[HappyMama]

Carrie- Are you still thinking that VideoText would be a good option? I was looking at this the other day (my boys are young, but I LOVE math, lol ) and it looks really great!

[basesloaded]

Bump - I , too, would like to hear Carrie's response about Video Text as an option.

[Carrie]

Ladies,

Thanks so much for the feedback. I really appreciate it! Math is one of those very important areas for kids, and it can be so tough to know which path to take.

We will be taking a good look at the Discovering Mathematics Book 1 of the series as a possibility for use after Singapore 6A/6B for Pre-Algebra. At this point in time, we are likely looking at combining it with Rick Fisher's Pre-Algebra from Math Essentials (which is a very straight-forward short course with more of a U.S.based look at pre-algebra). Together these could potentially be a very solid pre-algebra course, without being overwhelming. Yet, it would allow Singapore users to continue on the Singapore path while still meeting their requirements for Pre-Algebra. Upon further inspection, the Life of Fred Pre-Algebra courses (both A and B being needed) are looking to be quite complete in their own right and would likely be too much to add to an already full program such as Discovering Mathematics (unless you have a very math-loving student). This is the reason for looking at a possible combination with the Rick Fisher program instead, which we have used and enjoyed with our oldest son.

We do still like Videotext Algebra and think it is a solid program, yet it is a DVD or online type curriculum (which doesn't always suit everyone), plus cost can get to be a factor too. We want to explore all options right now to find the best mix for HOD to recommend. We are treading carefully, weighing what customers coming out of Singapore 6A/6B (following our plans) will need most in the area of pre-algebra and for entering algebra I. This may be a different path than those coming out of other math programs may need.

We have the interesting view in our own home of currently having our own oldest son who has done a mix of most of the most commonly used math programs (except Singapore due to it not being written in U.S. form as he was just ahead of that), and then we also have our next kiddos who have only used Singapore for math. My next oldest is a 6th grader and has only used Singapore, so our view of what is needed next in math will likely vary for our two oldest boys who have had two different math backgrounds.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Tree House Academy]

If you don't mind my asking, Carrie, is your 6th grader using RTR or CTC this year? I know that is totally off topic, but my son is the same age and I am just wondering how far "behind" he may be in the guides.

I do look forward to your future math recommendations. Thank you for putting so much time, thought, and effort into making these decisions!

[dianeh47]

My son is in 8th grade with RTR and extensions. He is in Math Essentials Pre-Algebra and then will do Life of Fred Pre- Algebra 1 and 2. Is that agood combination?
Thanks,
Diane

[Kirsten]

Thanks for answering this question. We are in Singapore 5a/b so I was wondering what would come in 2 years. I have loved Singapore since the start, although today I had to get on their forum for help!

[Carrie]

Rebecca,

Currently my 6th grader is doing RTR, but my third son coming up will be on the upper age range of the guides instead as he goes through them. In looking back over our HOD path, I honestly think the most important things are correct placement and also steady progress forward. So, if your son is thriving in CTC and is steadily moving forward, he is placed well. The programs honestly get so meaty as they go that there is really no way that your child will be "behind" in HOD as long as he falls close to the age range listed on our guides, and he is getting what we offer (or its equivalent) for a language arts and math experience.

This year we are finishing Beyond with my third little guy, because we didn't get all the way through it last year. While he certainly has the skills to move onto Bigger Hearts, I decided to finish Beyond with him this year anyway (as I had to ask myself what I would be rushing him forward to accomplish if we jumped into Bigger instead). Having said this, I must share that I cannot believe the difference between what he was getting out of Beyond last year when compared to what he is taking from it now. The growth and progress has been amazing, and we didn't even move into a new program. We just simply picked Beyond back up where we had left off.

I share this to show you that steady progress forward is more important than skipping or rushing through a guide to get to a "certain place". Rather gains are made as kiddos mature and benefit from steady bite-sized learning. We've found that cramming it in often means new information and skills flow out as quickly as they went "in".

Blessings,
Carrie

[Carrie]

Diane,

I think your plan for math should be fine. It sounds like a solid math path for pre-algebra to me. I am not completely familiar with both of the Life of Fred Pre-Algebra programs, as we haven't used it ourselves, but the scope and sequence and coverage seems very solid (especially when combined with Math Essentials Pre-Algebra).

Blessings,
Carrie