I need help dd (age 10) hates the "talking" time.

[arstephia]

I am struggling and am hoping someone else has dealt with this. This is in no way a complaint about the product, but I am struggling with how best to use it with my dd. We are doing Preparing. My younger dd did Little Hearts last year and my older dd seemed interested in the activities and style of HOD from seeing what little sis was doing, so I decided to try Preparing with her for this year. She is 10yo, in 5th grade. DD LOVES the books, loves the reading, but hates what she calls the busy work. She says we are talking the books to death (I just ask the questions from the Reading about History and StoryTime sections) and she loves the poetry selections, but again doesn't want to discuss the poetry piece like it suggests. The Science Exploration she enjoys the reading, but some of the activities she finds overly simplistic and sometimes says, "Wait, let's not do the experiment, I'll just tell you what will happen." And she is right. She already knows most of the science stuff (but loves to read the pages in the books.) I attributed that to the fact she has seen her older brother (now 7th grade) do a lot of science things and she reads all kinds of books. She is also reading the Extension reading assignments along with the basic assignments because she loves the HOD reading selections. It isn't an attitude thing, she is very respectful about it all and has sweet spirit. Also, she and I have a great relationship and we sit and just talk openly all the time. She just really doesn't like the school time questioning. She just says that me sitting with her and asking the questions makes her feel like I am talking down to her. Like the poem " Rain". It asks "What can you learn about the poet, RLS? She said, "Uh, he likes rain? Come on Mom, is that really a question? Can we skip this. I like the poem, but we don't need to talk it to death." I have even given her the TM and had her write her answers in a notebook, which has helped some, but not enough to go that route. She used BJU in the past and is begging to go back to that for history and science. So Thursday she said, "How about you give me the assigned reading pages each day and just let me read all of these great books for fun but not talk about them every day, and let me go back to the textbooks like we did before where I read the assignments and wrote out the answers at the end of each lesson." What am I to do? I am NOT saying anything bad about HOD's product. I love it, but what I can do to get around her aversion to talking about the reading?

ETA: She loves the drawing thru history, some of the art activities, and the handwriting, Bible memory, R&S English and Math. So there are things we are enjoying.

[Tree House Academy]

I have a friend whose dd is the same way. She is very independent and wants to do it on her own. I say, have her write the answers on notebook paper or even just have her write a narration or essay about what she read. Perhaps after several of those, she will decide that talking about it is a bit more fun...or she may decide she just likes to write essays.

IMO, talking about what you read gives the child a "jump off" point for much deeper discussions about the material. We have started with some simple question in HOD and ended up having a very deep, thought provoking discussion about the subject or even just something that came up in the answer. I can promise you that textbooks do not give you that same kind of thought provoking stuff to ponder. My ds did R&S last year - read, answer questions, take a test, read, answer questions, take a test. It was about the most boring thing ever. Dressing up in an Egyptian head dress and eating a simple meal on the floor takes you to the place - lets you live, for a moment, as the Hebrews did. It is so much more than some silly dress-up game. I am so sorry your dd isn't seeing it that way.

[annaz]

First, did you place her correctly? If things are too simple than maybe she'd be better placed in the next guide. Science may be too simple, she may need more.

On the other hand, "Rain" sort gave me a thought. The fact that "he likes rain; come on Mom", tells me she's not doing much deep thinking. It's more than that. I would expect much more of an answer and I would not move on and call that a good answer. That gives me a flag that she's not thinking deeply enough. It's too general; too topical. In life you need to be able to communicate and think and go deeper. I wouldn't really have her get out of talking or discussing what's needed. It's great maybe that it's understood; that's comprehension, but there's so much more; critical thinking included. Many of those questions are asked as well

On another note, you could combine the poetry days into 2 days and on the days she doesn't do poetry, ramp up the science.

Or like I mentioned, she may need to be in the next level.

[deltagal]

The Science Exploration she enjoys the reading, but some of the activities she finds overly simplistic and sometimes says, "Wait, let's not do the experiment, I'll just tell you what will happen." And she is right. She already knows most of the science stuff (but loves to read the pages in the books.) I attributed that to the fact she has seen her older brother (now 7th grade) do a lot of science things and she reads all kinds of books..

Just thought I would jump in on this and share a perspective. Encourage your dd to see and understand that the Science Exploration is as much about the process (if not more) than the result. In other words, can she completely set up the experiment, conduct it, record observations, and clean up without any help from mom?! If not, then there you go... that's your learning opportunity. I appreciate the simplicity and detailed instructions of much of the HOD science exploration activities, because they've really helped my dc move ahead by leaps and bounds in the independent learning department. I would encourage you to utilize this time to help your dd do the same. If, however, she's WAY BEYOND this level in her learning then post back...

[arstephia]

First, did you place her correctly? If things are too simple than maybe she'd be better placed in the next guide. Science may be too simple, she may need more.

On the other hand, "Rain" sort gave me a thought. The fact that "he likes rain; come on Mom", tells me she's not doing much deep thinking. It's more than that. I would expect much more of an answer and I would not move on and call that a good answer. That gives me a flag that she's not thinking deeply enough. It's too general; too topical. In life you need to be able to communicate and think and go deeper. I wouldn't really have her get out of talking or discussing what's needed. It's great maybe that it's understood; that's comprehension, but there's so much more; critical thinking included. Many of those questions are asked as well

On another note, you could combine the poetry days into 2 days and on the days she doesn't do poetry, ramp up the science.

Or like I mentioned, she may need to be in the next level.

Thanks for the response. Her "Rain" response isn't a good representation of her thinking skills. I'll admit that it was just the last straw of frustration for her that day, but it is also what alerted me that I was facing a problem. As far as placement, she could have maybe gone into CTC, but I really wanted her to cover the books and time periods in Preparing. I didn't want to make things too hard for her either since she is only 10. BUT, you did give me a thought!!!! If I combined things a little, maybe it wouldn't be such a deal. Like have "Talking Thursday" where we would sit down and discuss in more depth what she read over the course of the week at one time. Since I am not having trouble with her doing the reading, I doubt she'd forget anything from the passages. She could probably handle thinking back and having to retain and understand and would challenge her a little more than just discussing a couple pages at a time. I know Carrie designed the Poetry unit to be revisited throughout the week, but I don't see why she can't reread them each day but save the discussions for the last day. That could give us more time to ramp up science and go down some rabbit trails if desired. What do you all think of that idea? Does that sound like it would work or is it defeating too much of the purposes of the program?

[Marcee]

The fact that "he likes rain; come on Mom", tells me she's not doing much deep thinking. It's more than that. I would expect much more of an answer and I would not move on and call that a good answer

Sorry to hijack This thread is turning on lightbulbs for me:) I get answers like this as well, but I don't beleive it's because it's "easy" for my DD, but that she doesn't get it. As a said above, she has a hard time thinking on the spot with certain things. I'm wondering if it's OK to let her know what she will be questioned about before we do the reading-?

[arstephia]

The Science Exploration she enjoys the reading, but some of the activities she finds overly simplistic and sometimes says, "Wait, let's not do the experiment, I'll just tell you what will happen." And she is right. She already knows most of the science stuff (but loves to read the pages in the books.) I attributed that to the fact she has seen her older brother (now 7th grade) do a lot of science things and she reads all kinds of books..

Just thought I would jump in on this and share a perspective. Encourage your dd to see and understand that the Science Exploration is as much about the process (if not more) than the result. In other words, can she completely set up the experiment, conduct it, record observations, and clean up without any help from mom?! If not, then there you go... that's your learning opportunity. I appreciate the simplicity and detailed instructions of much of the HOD science exploration activities, because they've really helped my dc move ahead by leaps and bounds in the independent learning department. I would encourage you to utilize this time to help your dd do the same. If, however, she's WAY BEYOND this level in her learning then post back...

She is very independent in this area. She works in my kitchen well on her own reading recipes and baking things, she sets up her own craft activities (and cleans them) and can do the same for the science activities if I need her to (when I am busy with the younger child) so she doesn't really need extra practice with that, but in looking ahead, I see there are new concepts that she wouldn't have as much prior knowledge about, so I don't think the science is too easy. It just started off that way the first few weeks.

[annaz]

Marcee: Absolutely...I tell my dd a lot before we read as long as I give her the questions in a way that don't give her answers. I also tell her when she needs to narrate and do a written narration. I always give her a heads up. Sometimes I stop mid-stream if the information is a little tough. Maybe even a page. But there's no reason not to tell them what they need to look for and what's expected beforehand. After a while, you won't have to anymore.

Arstephia: I guess I'd be more inclined to move her up as this is a world history overview. The next levels go deeper but the same era (although I'm not sure on the early 20th century. She could read these books on her own time if they interest her.

We do this with poetry as well sometimes even doing it all in one day, but not usually. It's rather against the Charlotte Mason way, but sometimes I go with the flow of dd and the flow of my schedule. If she's not getting to much into the poem, then I do a little bit every day. If she's loving the poem, we'll do most it leaving us some time for bunny-trails or catch-up work throughout the week. The schedule is yours to make. But I'm sure the rest of the ladies on the board know way more than I and will help you once they check in here.

[Carrie]

Steph,

From what you've shared about your daughter and her responses, I would say that you are seeing a pretty typical reaction from a child who has never had anything different than a textbook type curriculum. The responses she is giving you resemble "textbook" answers. It is not uncommon for students who have come from this type of a learning setting to think very little beyond the most literal answer to a question. They have been taught to find the one "right" answer and that is exactly how she is answering each question.

For example, in the poem "Rain" the student is to notice the places that Robert Louis Stevenson chose to mention in his poem about Rain. These places are very telling about where he grew up and what he was familiar with as far as his Scottish setting. Stevenson grew up on the Scottish coast neart the sea. His grandfather built lighthouses and his sharing about the ships at sea is significant in relaying information about his own life. We do share this very information in the guide right after the question is asked, "What can you learn about the poet Robert Louis Stevenson from this poem?" However with giving a textbook answer to the question, your daughter missed this entire point and connection, even though it was drawn out in the discussion. She had already moved on in her mind as she'd found the obvious answer.

This same example holds true for the questions within all areas of the guide. They are not meant to be one-right answer textbook type questions. Instead, the questions are meant to lead to a probing look at the readings. When your daughter is asking to return to a textbook curriculum with a text and workbook, she is showing she is uncomfortable with the "talking" as it is actually much more probing and harder to be sure you "got the right answer" in that format than with a textbook. While you can easily return to BJU, it is just good to note that both you and your daughter are experiencing the tip of the learning curve that comes with a different more "living" approach to education. It can make both of you uncomfortable at first, but if you do not allow your daughter to downplay the questions or assignments with a textbook answer, you will get much more out of the curriculum. To do this though, you'll actually have to stop allowing the type of response that she is currently giving which is the obvious one right answer and instead ask for and expect a fuller deeper thinking answer instead. In this type of discussion, it's so important that you lead the discussion and she follow. This means that she will not be able to scoff at the questions in her answers, as you will let her know that you are expecting more from her than she is currently giving. This is something else that textbook learners are rarely comfortable doing, yet it is an important skill to have in life.

The same is true as far as science goes, as we find the scientific process is much more important than knowing the answers. So, a fully prepared lab sheet with her own thought out answers written in her own words is to be desired, rather than an "I already know the answer so why must I do this attitude" which comes from a textbook type learning where having the right answer IS the end result. We actually want kiddos to begin to think scientifically on their own in all things that they are reading and teaching them to think in this manner starts with the process we do each week in the science box of the plans in our guides.

I could go on with examples, but you are likely starting to see the differences in types of learning that I'm trying to explain. I know I came from a textbook type of learning in which I was a straight 'A' student. Yet, I have never had the "AHA" moments that I routinely have now as I am learning along with my kiddos in a more living way. So, I'd encourage you to have a talk with your daughter to let her know that the "talking" is where the learning is. It is where the processing takes place and is so much more than getting an answer down on paper.

I would set down some new guidelines that no longer allow for a solitary answer. Next, it would be good to be sure you are leading the discussion and she is following with a "thinking response". Accept nothing less. As time passes and you both become more comfortable with this type of learning, I think you'll be amazed at the conversations that you'll have! I wish for you the joy that we have found in a living books education.

Blessings,
Carrie

[John'smom]

Carrie,
I just wanted to say I so appreciate your answer here. It's filed away in my mind in case we need it down the road. I know it's definitely harder coming up with an answer that isn't so black and white. Ask me how I know.

[blessedmomof4]

Just jumping in to agree with Carrie. Her comments mirror my experience with my 11-year-old daughter, who attended public school for one and a half years before I brought her home again. She had fallen into the "one right answer" mentality, but over the past many months with Preparing, we have begun to have the most thoughtful and deep conversations during AND after school time. Even her older sisters, when they come down for lunch after working on their online lessons, get into our discussions. It's so nice to have them all thinking deeply again

[Tansy]

I also want to second or third Carries response.
I wish I could find this Article LGS sent me on why reading comprehension tests don't actually teach comprehension and conversation skills. It was fascinating and it is the model for part of DD1 therapy, to develop retention of facts. The purpose was not to retell the story, or question/answer the story, but rather to converse. The main point was: In reality when you read newspaper article you don't turn to your friend and expect him to retell what you both have read. Nor do you ask him questions about the story. Rather In real life you talk about what you both have read how it effects you or how it will effect the world. Its how every day people brain storm, hold meetings, talk to peers. It was a great article and I noticed how Carries narration tips were a training tool to this type of conversation.

Ever since I have taken the conversational style approach with My DD1 in therapy I have gotten much more out of her than ever before. Maybe showing her in most jobs you don't always have one right answer. That she will have to attend seminars and read reports and then discuss them with her boss (who may ask stupid questions and sound like he is talking down to her... seriously whos' boss hasn't) or her co-workers. To have synergy within your group, people have to talk things to death so to speak Its real world training! Think of how far ahead she will be when she hits college, because she can see, evaluate and converse.

[Mommamo]

Reading this thread has helped to remind me why we love HOD so much and why we chose it. This is (almost) all we've ever used, and I don't plan on trying anything else, ever, but sometimes it's so nice to be reminded WHY you love something. This has been a great thread!