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Hi -
We are on week 3 of LHFHG and I have a question about the devotional - Devotions for the Children' s Hour. We're obviously not very far into it, but there have already been 2 or 3 occasions where I felt the devotion was unclear about salvation by grace through faith. For example, today the devotion said something about children who OBEY go to heaven. (not children who trust in Jesus go to Heaven). Does anyone know where the author stands on salvation? Is this going to be a common occurrence with this book? I have other devotionals that I could use in its place, but I'm willing to keep trying if you tell me he believes in salvation by faith and I may just be reading into what he's saying.
Other than that, we are loving LHFHG!
Thanks!
Erin

I am out of town right now, so i can't look in our copy of the devotion book you mentioned. We are through week three, so we would have read the one in question. I personally did not notice what you did. Without looking at the context, all I can say is that with believing and trusting in Jesus comes a change of heart(repentance of sin). When we repent of our sin, we are obeying Him. You can't have salvation without repentance. Acts 3:19 says 'Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out.....' (KJV) If you are thinking it is referring to 'being good' to be saved, I'm sure the author was not insinuating that. The old nature will still be there to battle the new nature, which is a heart turned away from sin. II Thessalonians 1:8 talks about what happens to those who 'obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ' (KJV). It is referring to the unsaved or 'those who know not God' (KJV). So, 'obey' is an acceptable word to use in reference to salvation. HTH

Edit: To clarify, I do not believe salvation is by any good that we do. I was just pointing out that when we come to Christ, there is a change in the heart attitude - recognizing our sin and desiring to have Jesus cleanse our hearts. When someone refuses to accept what Christ has done, you could say he is not obeying God.

I would read that again and make sure you read it right. We did this last year and my son was saved during one of the devotionals. We definitely believe in salvation by belief in Jesus Christ and not "obeying" and I don't remember anything like that from our time with the devotions last year. We loved that book.

We just started LHFHG today and I had the exact same reaction to this book...and this is after reading just one devotion! I hope that Carrie or Julie will chime in here b/c I had to "clarify" for my 5 and 7yos today b/c even THEY were confused. My 5yo dd asked me, "Mommy, I thought that we went to heaven b/c we believed in Jesus?" The story of the farmer hoarding his grain and loving money and not God confused both my dc a little. Anyway, just wanted to say that you are not the only one concerned and that I do hope Julie or Carrie will give us their take on this book.

Sue, that was the other time my dd and I had to discuss this issue.
For those that are wondering where I am taking this from...
p. 28 says,
"Do you know why we cannot see God? It is because God doesn't want us to see Him yet. God is so great and so wonderful and so bright that if we saw Him, it would kill us. Some day, if we obey God, He will take us to Heaven when we die, and then we can see God as He is."
We stress obedience A LOT in this family, but we also stress, hopefully more, that salvation is completely based on Jesus Christ - Who He is and what He has done. He is the One who helps us obey, not for salvation, but to glorify Himself.
Anyway, I can see where the author may be saying "obey" in the sense of obeying the command to believe for salvation, but that would be reading into what he is saying. He never says that, at least in this chapter. I'd love some clarity on what he believes.
BTW - one of my favorite activities in LHTH last year was the heart activity - those who believe go to Heaven and those who don't, to Hell. That was a very clarifying moment for my dd. I am not questioning HOD's stance on salvation, just Kenneth Taylor's.
Thanks for any input!
Erin

We stopped using that devotional. DH and I found that we weren't agreeing with a lot of it. The straw that broke the camles back was the one that said that people who obey God(and mom and dad) are happy and those that don't are not happy. That simply is just not true. There are pleanty of Christ followers who are suffering and a lot who are very happy living in their sin. I know they won't be eternaly happy, but they are happy here on earth. I can't lie like that to my kids. I want them to obey me because they are following God, not becuase they think there is some sort of happiness attached to it and if they don't God will make them suffer.

Yes, I would agree with you on that. Hmmm...could Carrie or Julie chime in here and shed some light on this book? Why it was chosen? I'm trying to decide if we will keep using it or switch it out with something else (something I love about HOD - so versatile!)

Although I can see how a child could misunderstand because of how it was worded, I don't believe that makes the whole book invalid. The author should have stated it differently. I really don't believe he intended for it to be taken that way. I was looking over some of the devotionals throughout the book. If you read "The Death of Jesus Christ" and "If I Try to Be Good Will Jesus Save Me?", you will see that he believes in salvation through Jesus Christ alone. No man's book is perfectly written. I trust Carrie's judgment in choosing this book, because her faith and Christian life shine throughout these guides. That is why she won't take the Bible out of it. We are just finishing week 4 in LHFHG, and in the few devotionals we've read so far from that book, and some I have glanced over, I know there will be some very beneficial lessons from it.

The Bible talks about the benefits of living in obedience to His Word. We can have joy, even in infirmities. However, a Christian will not have true happiness (joy) living in sin. I have to agree with the author's statement in that area.

Hmmm.... we are in week 4 and I don't actually recall what you are talking about - which makes me feel bad. I have felt like this devotion has been right on for us. I guess where I am at with my 5 YO is she is very clear that we "believe in Jesus we go to heaven." But I do not see her taking her sin seriously or understanding that is a very grievous thing. I think she has a very surface faith, if she has it at all.

So I probably read what you are referring to and hoped she would think about her sin more seriously...

I will definitely try to be more discerning as I continue reading it.

I think what was missed here is that the statement in question comes from a devotion on how we can know God is alive. The author is referring to God. He has not mentioned Jesus, so we ARE obeying God when we receive His sacrifice, His Son, Jesus. Yes, God and Jesus are One, but they are also in separate Persons, so that could have been the context in which it was written. Maybe that should have been added, but again, I believe the author clearly brings out the way of salvation in other parts of the book.

I understand that children do not understand things in depth, but they can understand that they have done bad things and that is why Jesus had to die. They can also understand that Jesus is sad when they do wrong. Sin does rob Christians of their joy. That is why we discipline, so our children can understand that there are consequences for wrongdoing. I truly believe that in doing right there are positive results, not only physically and spiritually, but emotionally. It's okay to be happy or joyful when we know we are obeying. My dd thrives on praise for obeying. She is often being disciplined for disobeying. When she obeys and I don't say anything, she makes sure I know that she obeyed. Children ARE happy when pleasing those they love.

These are my last words on this thread. I just don't want others to become discouraged about using this devotion book without knowing the full scope of what it contains.

We used the entire book within the plans of LHFHG last year. I remember there were a few days when I had to clarify something for my ds...the one about obeying & going to heaven was definitely one of them. I remember saying what a previous poster said - once we are saved there should be a change in our hearts, we want to obey our Savior, but that doesn't get us to heaven.

I wouldn't toss out the entire book though, because there were many days we read a chapter that spurred on wonderful conversations about our Savior. The days I had an issue with something that was written by Taylor, we would stop and talk about it and recite (or look up) verses in the Bible that could tell us if the statement was correct or incorrect. I took the approach of those times as teaching discernment to my ds.

We do the same thing when watching science DVDs, reading a secular book (i.e."mother nature" is mentioned) or going to a museum (where someone or something references evolution).

We used the entire book within the plans of LHFHG last year. I remember there were a few days when I had to clarify something for my ds...the one about obeying & going to heaven was definitely one of them. I remember saying what a previous poster said - once we are saved there should be a change in our hearts, we want to obey our Savior, but that doesn't get us to heaven.

I wouldn't toss out the entire book though, because there were many days we read a chapter that spurred on wonderful conversations about our Savior. The days I had an issue with something that was written by Taylor, we would stop and talk about it and recite (or look up) verses in the Bible that could tell us if the statement was correct or incorrect. I took the approach of those times as teaching discernment to my ds.

We do the same thing when watching science DVDs, reading a secular book (i.e."mother nature" is mentioned) or going to a museum (where someone or something references evolution).

Ditto!

Thanks Beth! That was really helpful! It's good to know from you and Pam that there is a lot of good in this book. I'm not opposed to occasionally having to clarify things with my dd from Scripture as we go through it, I was just concerned, since I had run into a few already and I'm only in week 3, that it would be a constant thing. Of course we do this in all of life, always checking man's words with the Bible, but since this is book is a huge part of the Bible curriculum, I didn't want to be saying "we don't agree with this" all of the time - I think that could be discouraging for my dd. I also have a few devotionals waiting to be done and I thought if this book would be a constant problem, why not use one I'm excited about? But, I think I will give it another try as well as talk with my dh some more about it.

Thank you so much for asking this question because I was wondering the same thing. Thanks to all who answered because I thought about just putting it aside for now, but I will take another look at it also.

It is good to know so much heartfelt consideration is being given to training up our dc to know and love the Lord, ladies! I want to encourage you that HOD's guides consistently plan special time for there to be many Biblically based discussions between you and your dc. It is important to take advantage of these times. I have fond memories of discussion times such as these with "Devotions for the Children's Hour", and I think it is an outstanding devotional. I think it is important to view the devotional within the context of the day's plans. On the day you are referring to, dc read about Abraham and his faith, and the key idea that God blessed Abraham for his faith resonates through the entire day's worth of plans. Abraham is a good example of a person who both obeyed the Lord and also had incredible faith. The bulk of this day of the devotional (basically all of it) is devoted to dc realizing that it is by "faith" that we believe in God because we cannot "see" Him. Part of obeying God is having faith in Christ. The two are inter-connected. Obedience to the Lord helps us strive to have faith, and faith in the Lord helps us strive to be obedient. Both the prayer and the hymn of that devotional day talk about Jesus being the "light":

Come to the light, 'tis shining for thee;
Sweetly the light has dawned upon me;
Once I was blind, but now I can see;
The light of the world is Jesus.

This is all pointing to the Lord as our Savior, and talking about how faith helps us "see" the light of the world, Jesus. Any one sentence taken out of context can often be questioned. The "obeying" part of the devotional links well with the verse "Even a child is known by his actions, by whether his conduct is pure and right", which is the memory verse of the week. Just as it is important to read the Bible in its entirety, I think it is important to do HOD's day's/week's/year's worth of plans in their entirety, as well as doing a devotional within its entirety. Imagine if our pastors did one or even several sermons focused on "obedience" to the Lord, but also included references to faith, would that lead us to believe faith in the Lord was not necessary? Surely not, because on another week he would do a sermon or several sermons focused on "faith" in the Lord probably including some references to obedience. Faith and obedience go hand in hand. Take time to read the devotional chapters to see what the entire devotional is about - I found a good balance there. Chapters such as "What happens when we ask Jesus to be our Savior?", "Why did Jesus save me?", and "If I try to be good, will Jesus save me?" should help with your heartfelt question.

Another chapter that really spoke to me was "Why do Christians disagree?" It says many wonderful things, but this part should help you with your question...
"...But in all of these different kinds of churches, there is one main thing that all of us who are Christians believe, and that is that the Lord Jesus is the only One who can forgive our sins and save us forever. That is the most important thing."
Of course these too are only a few sentences from the devotional. Really the best way to decide what you want to do is to read the entire devotional, as is the case with everything our dc will be reading.

I loved this devotional. I loved the discussions I had with my dc because of this devotional. I loved what I saw it do in my dc's hearts - both in their faith in Him and in their obedience to Him. The overall awe and reverence this devotional brings front and center resonates that it is a book that brings glory to the Lord and draws our hearts as well as our dc's hearts to Him. Approaching this devotional time together as a time to praise the Lord, to get to know Him better, and to share my faith in the Lord with my dc made it a very special time for us to look forward to each week. We searched for ways to grow closer to the Lord within this devotion and found much food for the soul.

However, this devotional is an optional resource for LHFHG. It was not chosen as the spine; it is an option, which is noted with "necessary items unless you have these areas covered in some other way". In other words, HOD considers doing a devotional necessary (isn't that refreshing to hear? ), we've chosen what we like best, but you can do it in a different way if you'd rather. So, it is not my intention to debate sentences back and forth here, as we could certainly do that with any number of sentences from any devotional or any resource, but rather my intention is to share why I chose to use this optional resource, and the beautiful fruits I saw from using it. If you would rather choose a different devotional and cover this area in some other way, that is certainly an option that will not hinder you doing the rest of the plans - and though I think you'd be missing much - that is up to you. Erin - I'm so glad you are enjoying LHFHG, there are many more fulfilling days ahead of you with it!

In Christ,
Julie