Questioning placement of ds in CTC

[tbarr12]

As I've been really preparing for the next couple of weeks with cTC, and reading the boards, I'm wondering if I placed my 9 yo ds (4th grade) in the right program. The things I see as being a difficulty for him will be the amount of written work, and the independent reading. I plan to do some of the reading with him, and perhaps cut down on the written work some for him.

I'm wondering if that's okay, as I know CTC is really designed to move them to independence. I was hoping to work with him on that this year, and move him towards that more and more as he matures.

Is it okay to do some of the reading (i.e., SOTAW and Science) out loud with him, and give him a reduced amount of written assignments? (i.e., cutting out some of the Science questions, perhaps?) The reason I placed him in CTC was a) I thought he could do the work with some help from me and b) for simplicity, as I'm combining him with my oldest dd, 5th grade. (I'm also doing LHFHG with my 6 yo dd). I didn't want to do Preparing with both of them, as we just did world history last year, and I really think she needs the challenge of the independent work.

If it's not okay, could I REALLY handle 3 programs my first time using HOD?

Should I give it a week or two before I decide? But then if I change, he'd be behind.

Any thoughts would be appreicated! Tracey

[Tabitha]

I think it's fine doing read-alouds as you mentioned with the younger child. I don't see any harm in that. That is the beauty we all enjoy with homeschooling. For the written portions, he can do oral narrations and you can write them down. That may help, too.

Preparing is a nice program, though. Even though your 5th grader took on this subject last year, I don't think she would get bored with Preparing. There is some independent work in Preparing, and you can always have your dd do work independently with Preparing as you would with CTC.

My dd is going into 6th and we will be starting CTC this year. My middle dd is in 3rd, and is in Bigger this year. In 2 years, for 5th, she would be in CTC. That is too early for her. Preparing will be too much for her next year based on her skills now and guesstimating where she will be then.

I hope someone with more experience will speak up. The age thing stumbles me here. My gut is saying Preparing is a better one to use to combine these ages. However, if you're reading things aloud and using the suggestions from other guides for his grade level activities in math/spelling/english, etc...it is prolly just fine. I am going to be using LHFHG with my 5 yo for 2 years. Doing K options one year, using the right side of the manual only, then again for 1st using those options and adding in the left side of the manual. Perhaps there is a way that you can take on CTC for him doing it over 2 years as well.

[blessedmomof4]

Hi Tracey,
Congratulations on finding HOD, you will not be disappointed Just my two cents. If your son is always going to be at the youngest for the guides, and needs too much help from you in CTC, remember that the guides to follow build on each other, meaning that if he cannot successfully do the work in CTC, he may not be ready at the end of it to go on to the much more independent RTR and guides to follow.
I think it is easier to build up the lower program for your older child than to do the reverse. Preparing is an interesting and full program-my 10-year-old daughter is using it without extensions, and she is nearly 11, and it is plenty. She is building her skills with the independent work, slowly getting ready for what she will need to do in CTC.
For your older child, you can use the Extension books with Preparing to give her more of a challenge, they are very challenging and are meant to be read independently by the student.
Lastly, was the history portion your only reason for choosing CTC? Even if you did world history last year, I would encourage you that doing it with the combination of Child's History of the World and Grandpa's Box, as well as the other history books used in Preparing will still be a unique experience, especially with the activities and work scheduled in Preparing.
If you have not done so, check the placement chart for your son, giving more weight to the areas of age, reading, writing, grammar, and math over the rest. The other areas can help fine-tune your placement. Hope that helps, here is a link:
http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

[tbarr12]

Thanks for the input, and I'm looking forward to hearing more! I did look at the placement charts quite extensively, and felt that my daughter fit CTC just fine, but that for my son it would be a bit of a stretch. I'm leaning towards giving this a couple weeks - I guess I can't actually say that it's out of his reach until I see that! In doing it this morning, he did just fine. The other idea I may give some serious thought and consideration to would be doing CTC over 2 years, at half-pace. That way they both would probably be at a great level with it by the time we finished. I'm going to think about that. Thanks again.

Tracey

[Tree House Academy]

The best advice I can give you is to place your son where he fits and do not stretch (or go backwards). I did this last year - placed my younger son in a guide that was too hard and my older son in one that I knew was beneath where he needed to be. After 8 weeks, I was ready to throw in the towel and they were too! I moved back a guide with my little fella and the difference was AMAZING! He did Little Hearts as a 1st grader and we enjoyed every second of it! My older son had to stop completely because I was determined he would do American History last year even though he placed perfectly into Preparing. We did something else last year and came back to HOD this year doing CTC. My son just turned 11 in August.

My point of all this is that, for our family, placement in HOD was key. This year, my younger son has started Beyond again and the difference in him doing it this year and doing it last year is that his understanding and abilities have soared! He is thriving with Beyond this year and I really think all it took was that extra year for him.

If you have any doubts about placement, I would go with the guide where he placed and not try to "stretch" at all.

[brenm37]

Tracey,
I am doing CTC half-speed with my 9 year old dd. We did Preparing last year and it was sometimes (but not often) a bit much for her. I had planned to move her back to Bigger this year, but she really wanted to do Ancient History and not American. She is even having a hard time for now adjusting to all the reading and I do help her a lot more than my other dd in CTC, who is 11 (6th grade) and does the guide all on her own. I am fully planning to take 2 years with my 9 year old, as I know RTR will be even tougher. We just started though and I do expect her to adjust to it all over the next few months.
Brenda

[my3sons]

I agree with you 100% that doing 3 HOD programs to begin with would probably be too much. It's nice to start with 1 or 2 HOD programs. So I do think it is important to keep LHFHG and consider carefully which placement is best for your olders. In general, if 9 yo dc have not done PHFHG and are starting HOD for the first time, CTC would typically be very hard - probably too hard - for almost all 9 yo's. Since your 9 yo has not done PHFHG, and as HOD has full programs already and offers extensions, I would lean toward combining the 2 dc in PHFHG. The extensions will extend PHFHG beautifully for your older child, with no added teaching time for you, and both dc's needs will be met by doing PHFHG as your core guide.

Placement is a big deal, and if you are thinking you are going to have to read out loud the books in the CTC boxes marked "I" in the guide, I would definitely not do CTC with the 2 of them. Likewise, if you are thinking you are going to have to modify the writing in the "I" assignments for your 9 yo, I would not do CTC either. This is not a "one year" choice you are making here, but a long-term one. The length of the "I" readings and the amount of writing in the "I" assignments purposely get much longer and harder each year (as can be seen in RTR's plans). If you are having to read things out loud that are not meant to be read out loud now for your younger, there is a good chance you will always be reading things out loud or modifying the writing. This has several negative effects. First, your oldest child is not taking on the independence he/she should because you are still doing the reading (in which case you can see PHFHG's extensions would actually be harder). Second, your younger child will miss out on learning the skills he/she should from the roots up as he'll always be missing the teaching part of it because of the need to help him and hurry him along. Third, you may very well lose your voice! Not kidding here... the sheer amount of reading you would be doing over the years would make you hoarse (reading independently goes much more quickly than reading out loud), not to mention your day would be dragging on as you get bogged down in the length of the readings.

PHFHG is an awesome program! Very full, and with extensions, a good fit for your older child too. I know it's tough to make a switch in placement when you thought you'd made a decision, but if you are now looking at CTC and thinking you need to read aloud "I" things and modify "I" assignments, you'll always be missing out on the intended independence of the guides, as will your dc. Likewise, if you can see the "S" boxes are going to become "T" boxes, you'll be missing out on that intended semi-independence as well. You can see how this would add more and more time to the days. I've noticed a trend with HOD's upper guides: dc are almost always moved down rather than up upon starting them, and usually the comments are that after the move down, HOD was a perfect fit! I think the perfect fit to begin with after what you've shared here would be PHFHG with extensions. I'd much rather do that than try to modify, tweak, half-speed it, etc. from the get-go. These are just my thoughts though, so just pray about it, and the Lord will help you decide what's best for your dc!

In Christ,
Julie

[tbarr12]

Julie - thanks for your input, and I will give this some serious thought. Your reason #3 is very true - I am finding it to be A LOT of reading out loud!!! Yes, it would be hard to switch - I would feel like I've lost 2 weeks of school, adn have to go longer next summer, which I don't like. However, come to think of it, I had planned to take Thanksgiving week off, so maybe we could not do that, then we'd only be 1 week behind.

Anyway, I will give this some serious thought and prayer over the weekend - I feel if I wanted to switch, I'd need to order by the end of the weekend.

One question - can you tell me why Preparing is so key? Is it because it begins to teach the independence skills?

Thanks.

[my3sons]

Julie - thanks for your input, and I will give this some serious thought. Your reason #3 is very true - I am finding it to be A LOT of reading out loud!!! Yes, it would be hard to switch - I would feel like I've lost 2 weeks of school, adn have to go longer next summer, which I don't like. However, come to think of it, I had planned to take Thanksgiving week off, so maybe we could not do that, then we'd only be 1 week behind.

Anyway, I will give this some serious thought and prayer over the weekend - I feel if I wanted to switch, I'd need to order by the end of the weekend.

One question - can you tell me why Preparing is so key? Is it because it begins to teach the independence skills?

Thanks.

Good question that I will do my best to answer!

In PHFHG, students take over the science box, including the reading, experiments, questions, etc. The books chosen and the experiments and activities written in PHFHG are meant to make this a truly meaningful, yet successful year of independent science, as they are written to the students and planned in such a way that the groundwork for true success in independent learning in science can be attained. In CTC, the science is more difficult, the experiments have many more steps that must be followed carefully, the notebooking entries are more intricate with detail, and the five questions include the use of scientific terms.

In PHFHG, parents are reading the Reading about History spine books. In CTC, the students read the history spines. The readings are longer, from more difficult books, and are not intended to be read out loud. The follow-up rotation of assignments to the readings are more difficult in CTC. For example, in PHFHG, comprehension questions from the spine the parent read are asked to be answered orally. In CTC, research (often from a secondary resource) is involved, and students must mesh what they read themselves in history with another resources information (i.e. the Bible, encyclopedia, etc.) to answer the questions. In PHFHG, written narrations are guided by the teacher, giving an excellent foundation for future success with written narrations. The length is shorter. In CTC, written narrations are only guided at the start, the length of them is longer, and the main idea must be identified and hi-lighted. The CTC Student Notebook also ups the level of independence, as students must constantly follow directions from the CTC Teacher's Guide to know which boxes to write in, locate them on in the Student Book by number, and go between sources to be able to complete the plans.

In PHFHG, creative writing lessons are done with the model of Robert Louis Stevenson's poetry one time a week. The poems are beautiful, and the students begin by just subbing out portions of his poems and writing in their own versions of the poem within the model provided. In CTC, writing lessons are twice a week with "Write with the Best", which uses classic models of writing for examples to parallel (i.e. 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, etc.). The source material is much more difficult, the student needs a stronger understanding of grammar, writing time is doubled (twice a week with longer sessions), and many types of writing are taught.

In PHFHG, the history projects are more simple. In CTC, they become multi-step, involve some cooking/baking, use multiple sources of information to complete, and are just harder.

In PHFHG, Bible Study is teacher guided, and an excellent foundation is laid for CTC. In CTC, students have their own independent Bible quiet time they need to do that is paralleled after what they did with the teacher in PHFHG, so they hopefully get the most out of it that they can! Plus, there is still the teacher led Bible Study box in CTC that is much more difficult material, so there are 2 Bible study boxes in CTC and only 1 in PHFHG.

The Storytime follow-ups in PHFHG are much more simple than in CTC. You can check out the Introduction of each of the guides to see specifically how. The poetry is much harder in CTC as watercolor painting techniques are taught using multiple step directions, varied supplies, and copywork.

Overall, there is a lot more writing in CTC, while more of the work is done orally in PHFHG. The Geography box is harder in CTC too. I know my ds needed the training in PHFHG to be able to do CTC well. Since you have CTC in hand, you may want to print PHFHG's first week of plans, Introduction, Learning through History, and Learning the Basics off the Internet and compare them to CTC's first week of plans, Introduction, etc. This will give you a great way to see the progression of skills and the increase of difficulty from PHFHG to CTC. HTH as you consider what is best to do for your sweeties!

In Christ,
Julie

[tbarr12]

Julie - thanks SO MUCH for your reply! I went ahead and ordered Preparing last night. I felt I needed to make a quick decision so that I do not get too far behind on school. However, your e-mail reminded me - the first week of Preparing is on the web-site, so we can go ahead and get started next week (at least with the things I have, like maybe Grammar, Bible, etc.) That way maybe we can get into the first week gradually.

All the reasons you listed I think, after using CTC for a week, I sensed, but couldn't have put into words since I didn't have anything to compare it to. I can see why all these things made CTC a little harder for my DS, although, bless his sweet, conscientious heart, he gave it his all!!!! It was also harder for me, with all the reading. And, I think learning these skills will benefit my almost 11 yo dd, since she really hasn't learned them yet.

So thanks again for all your help. I will be so glad when I get the books and can get started, and quit having all these false starts!

Tracey

[my3sons]

I'm impressed with your decision, Tracey! I find it hard to make a switch in my thinking, but it is sometimes for the best. I think your switch was for the best. I just want to encourage you with the "getting behind" feeling that the 4-day plan is your friend! You can just do school on the fifth day for a month and make a week easily. Or, if you have something else you have to do on the fifth day already and are unable to finish just the last week or two of the guide, you could just have the dc finish reading the books on their own. By doing even just the basics (i.e. grammar, math, etc.) on the fifth day a couple weeks worth, you could really still be done at the end date you wanted. I am doing school 5 days a week when we can this year, so we will finish early when we need to be done as that's a super busy season for both my dh and me. HTH, and I'm glad you'll get to do PHFHG. I think you'll find it an excellent fit! And, you already have CTC, so if you need some of the higher level LA/math for your older child, you'll have it on hand already. Enjoy!

In Christ,
Julie