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This year I'm combining my dc in Beyond and upping some things for my 3rd grade ds. We currently use Spell to Write and Read for spelling, etc. I'm prayerfully considering using what HOD has for spelling. I don't have the Bigger manual to see what it says about the spelling. I did see a past post with examples of the dictation though. Could you please explain how spelling is taken care of in Bigger? Thanks for the info. Really any info you want to share would be so helpful. I'm really struggling with the decision. I really want to do what's best for my dc and it's hard to imagine the spelling could be as easy as it sounds. Spell to Write and Read takes us a minimum of 30 minutes a day. Is that about how long you spend on HOD spelling?

This is what it says about Spelling in the Introduction to Bigger.


Spelling
Three days in each unit include spelling activities to guide students to
spell words necessary for writing and daily use. A word list is provided in
the Appendix for each unit. Word lists contain words from the Dolch word
list, Fry’s word list, and other grade level lists of high frequency words.
Each unit emphasizes one spelling word pattern. Eight words on each list
are pattern words. The other two spelling words on each list are target
words that do not follow the spelling pattern. Spelling strategies are taught
using a multi-sensory approach that emphasizes picturing the word
mentally. You will need 10 index cards for each unit and a place to store
the cards.
A brief scope and sequence of the spelling patterns is listed by unit below
(Number ‘1’ corresponds to Unit 1, number ‘2’ corresponds to Unit 2, etc.):
1 - short ‘a’
2 - short ‘e’
3 - short ‘i’
4 - short ‘o’
5 - short ‘u’
6 - short vowel words ending in double consonants ‘ff’, ‘zz’, ‘ll’, ‘ss’
7 - review
8 - long ‘o’, ‘y’, and ‘e’ at the end of a word
9 - long ‘a’ formed by silent final ‘e’
10 - long ‘i’ formed by silent final ‘e’
11 - long ‘o’ formed by silent final ‘e’
12 - long ‘u’ formed by silent final ‘e’
13 - review
14 - ‘or’ as in ‘horn’
15 - ‘er’ as in ‘her’
16 - ‘ir’ as in ‘girl’
17 - ‘ar’ as in ‘farm’
18 - review
19 - long ‘a’ spelled ‘ay’ as in ‘day’
20 - long ‘a’ spelled ‘ai’ as in ‘sail’
21 - long ‘e’ spelled ‘ee’ as in ‘keep’
22 - long ‘e’ spelled ‘ea’ as in ‘eat’
23 - final ‘y’ that says long ‘e’ as in ‘baby’
24 - review
25 - long ‘o’ spelled ‘ow’ as in ‘grow’
26 - ‘ow’ as in ‘cow’
27 - ‘oo’ as in ‘moon’
“Learning The Basics” Components
(continued)
28 - ‘oo’ as in ‘book’
29 - ‘aw’ as in ‘saw’
30 - ‘oi’ or ‘oy’ as in ‘boil’ or ‘boy’
31 - review
32 - color words
33 - number words
34 - days of the week
Extra: contractions
Note: See the Appendix for actual word lists for each of the spelling patterns
listed above. If your child can already spell most of the words on the included
spelling lists, choose to do dictation instead.

Dictation
The dictation passages are for use with students who have mastered the
basic spelling words in the provided lists. The dictation passages are found
in the Appendix after the spelling lists. Permission is granted for you to
make copies of the “Dictation Passages Key” to log your children’s progress
in dictation. A wide-lined bound composition book is needed for dictation.
Special instructions for the dictation passages are included in the Appendix.
The Charlotte Mason method of studied dictation is used. In this method,
students study the passage prior to having it dictated. This is an important
step in learning to visualize the correct spelling of words. All items in the
passage must be written correctly, including punctuation marks, before
going on to the next passage. Studied dictation focuses on the goal of using
correct spelling within the context of writing.

We definitely do not take anywhere near 30 minutes for spelling with the second list in Beyond (which is the same as in Bigger)... it's never more than 10-15 minutes, and the 15 minutes is when she writes the words AND sentences for all of them... all her own choosing.

I cannot imagine dictation taking more than 15 minutes either....

There are 2 spelling options in Bigger Hearts. The spelling list option has a list of words that follow a pattern, and it has plans in the Bigger Hearts LA box. Here are some posts that may help (Bigger Hearts has the second words listed and not the first which are in Beyond):
Spelling List Samples from Units 1, 15, 30:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4892&p=35888#p35888

CM Style Spelling in HOD (why do it, describes spelling plans too):
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5645&p=41357#p41357

When we did spelling with the lists and their plans, it took us around 10 minutes to do. Very time efficient, and an excellent lead into dictation, which is harder.

As far as dictation, here are some posts that may help as you research this:
Dictation Samples:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1221

Carrie explains CM Dictation:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5661
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5186
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=925

A few more, since you're in the researching phase here (I'm going with the "more is better" idea here, so just don't read these all if it's too much information!):
Praise for long-term effects of dictation:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5645&p=41374#p41374

Encouraging Dictation:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4877
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5558

Dictation takes us about 5-10 minutes. It is extremely effective, and as many of CM's ideas - looks simplistic but is not. It packs a big punch even though it takes a small amount of time. It is the best way to help dc spell well within their own writing, when paired with copywork as well (which HOD plans for in the guides). HTH as you consider this! I'd give it a good solid year or two, and you'll be surprised at its positive results.

In Christ,
Julie

Leah, thanks for typing all that out.

LoraBeth, I appreciate you letting me know how long everything took.

Julie, you must know me pretty well. I'd rather read more. I feel more equipped to make a wise decision. I still have a few more questions after reading all that.

My ds just turned 8 and will be in 3rd grade. I've looked at the two spelling lists in Beyond and know I would need to buy the Bigger manual for the dictation passages. He's had 2 years of Spell to Write and Read which is totally different than CM. I just want to make sure that he's not going to somehow be messed up by not going through the two lists that are in Beyond and that he could just jump right in to the dictation passage in Bigger.

So all the spelling rules are not needed? I know growing up I never learned phonics or spelling rules and I'm a really good speller (except for typos ). I just know how a word is spelled so I obviously must have incorporated CM naturally. It's just so hard to choose that for my dc though, if you were familiar with SWR you'd probably understand where I was coming from.

Now on to my dd. She just turned 6 and will be in 1st grade. She's never had any spelling. She reads really, really well although she's not had a formal phonics program (as I've not formally started her with SWR and SWR is phonics/spelling/grammar). She has learned all the sounds for the letters, not just short sounds, but all three sounds of "a", both sounds of "e" and she even knows some sounds of the two letter phonograms, ex. "ee"- e double e always says e. I hope that makes sense. Just learning those things she taught herself to read. She can definitely read book on the second grade reading level and do it well even with voice inflections. She's been definitely different than her brother. What I'm wondering with her is it okay to start her on List 1 of the Spelling lists. It seems I've read on here about doing a formal phonics program first. Thanks for any info concerning dd.


I so want to shorten the time we're spending on spelling, but I'm not sure why I'm so scared to take the plunge, especially when it seems exactly the way I learned. I think it's partly because with using SWR, the rules have helped explain why things are the way they are with spelling.

Well I'd like to take credit for typing all that out Edwena, but I copy and pasted it from the introduction to Bigger. It is found at this link: http://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/BHFHG- ... -07-11.pdf

Well, I'm relieved I didn't go overboard there. I'm a born researcher too, so more is better for me in that phase, glad it was for you too!

It sounds like your ds is ready for dictation Level 2 in BHFHG, and I'd start him there. I think he'll do fine with it, though to give fair warning, it is harder than it looks. My ds spent a good while missing the punctuation, or the capital letter at the start of the passage. But then, that's why he needed to learn to study it more. It worked, he soon had that down pat along with the spelling. I think if a child fluctuates between missing none to two passages a week, they're probably placed fairly well in that level of dictation. If they're missing every single day, or haven't missed one single thing for months and months, they may need an adjustment in placing.

Your dd sounds ready to start Spelling List 1 in Beyond, along with its plans in the 2 page daily plan spread (LA box). She is reading quite well, and sounds at the level my ds was when he began the first spelling list. I think she'll do fine with it!

I understand it's hard to give up the traditional way of doing things and embrace the CM way of doing things. Of all the changes I've gradually made by doing CM style of learning over years (living books vs. textbooks, copywork vs. daily oral language worksheets, narrations vs. fill-in-the-blank and multiple choice worksheets/quizzes/tests, short lessons vs. long lessons, the child doing the reading instead of me as they mature, etc.), going from spelling lists to dictation passages was the last one I changed over to - it just was so different from how I'd taught spelling in the past. But, I will say that like you, I learned to spell by reading a lot of books (not great books like my kids get to read with HOD, but lots of books). Anyway, I think you'll find dictation to be worth the change.

In Christ,
Julie