DD doing CTC struggling reader

[gotpeace91]

My daughter is still struggling with her reading. Last year when we did Preparing I read the Independent boxes myself to both of the kids. I think that ds could do the Independent boxes in CTC independently but my daughter has a hard time reading them. How do I continue with her this year? Truthfully she sort of fits Preparing perfectly this year but we've already BTDT. I have a few options that I'm considering and was hoping for some input.

Option 1: Keep dd in CTC, read the books to her and try to add in some books that are more on her level for her to practice her reading with. (In addition to DITHR)

Option 2: Put her in Bigger and have her do it Independently. Then next year when ds does RTR my dd could do CTC.

Option 3: Have her drop the Reading About History, Science Exploration, and Independent History boxes and have her do History and Science ACE Paces that are geared to her level so she can be more independent.

What do you think and if you have any other options feel free to let me know?

[gotpeace91]

BTW I want to mention that the Independent books in CTC are not too hard for the average 9-11yo to read. My sweet dd is not an average reader.

[1shortmomof4]

As a fellow mom of a struggling/not independent reader who is 11 today! I have no expert advice on this one. My ds placed better into Bigger rather than Preparing this year so we'll do Bigger - I may or may not add in extensions. My goal this year is to continue on developing his reading and writing skills (this is the other half of the decision-making process for me in deciding which guide to use). I have found that if my ds starts working at a little below level (he obviously doesn't know what level he's on) and begins achieving and his self-esteem is building, his skills begin to strengthen and take off. Some kids just need much more time developing those reading skills - their brains are wired differently. The key for my ds (but not for everyone obviously) is a lot of reading practice. We read through all the SL Int. readers last year and by the end of the year he was finally able to read them independently and narrate back to me. This year we'll continue on with the SL Adv. but I'm going to intertwine a couple of units from DITHOR after we get started this year. If you haven't done Bigger (or American History), it might be a great way to build up those skills in a more gradual way. I'm not sure what the sibling relationships are, but I have found that if you have a struggler and they feel the pressure of a younger sibling, it can make matters worse. You could do Bigger but not approach it as a "lower" level, but as let's learn about American history and some of the great people that were a part of making our country? I tried Bigger this past Fall and it was a disaster - unless I wanted to keep on doing on the work - so we put it away and did something else (we had already done Beyond) and now this year we'll do Bigger. You may need to keep doing a lot of the work but as the year progresses you can gradually give her more assignments.

As I said, not an expert here but I do understand the reading issues...
Heidi

[water2wine]

I have one that struggles with reading but is an older child as well. I am thinking Bigger independent would not be a good idea unless you are planning on reading the History portion aloud. The reading is hard in Bigger for someone that struggles. You might have a plan that would make that work though. I am thinking what about another option of doing CTC with the lover level readers at half paced and take this year to really focus on reading. One thing I have found that is huge is to have them read it to themselves and ask any questions they want on words etc. After that I have them narrate what they read to see how well they comprehended, then they read it aloud and I do the entire thing aloud. It takes time to do this with a struggling reader but the results are really worth it.

I am not sure what the best plan is for you but slowing down and focusing on reading may be the thing to give you the push to more fluent reading. I know Carrie and Julie will have some great advice for you.

[gotpeace91]

Thank you for the encouragement, Heidi. I will definitely need to focus on reading for her this year and maybe giving her a lot of books to read that are at her level will give her more confidence. She really hates to slow down and sound out a word piece by piece, she would rather guess at it so we're working on that.

Thanks for letting me know about the reading level of the Bigger books, water2wine. I was wondering about that and that will definitely play into my decision. Going half-speed in CTC is something I hadn't though of so thank you for the advice. I could slow her down while allowing my son to go full speed independently. Right now we have been taking turns reading paragraphs aloud and with as many times as she needs to halt to figure out a word I'm afraid he is missing the point of the story sometimes. I could try to add some books for her that will be a little easier that still have to do with the time period in CTC. You have given me some things to ponder. And yes, I do hope Julie or Carrie will chime in too.

[Carrie]

Leah,

The ladies are doing a terrific job of helping you talk through your options. One thing to think about as you ponder is what the next year will look like if you continue on the path you're on. One worry I have is that there is a fairly big step up in the level and length of readings required in RTR when compared to CTC. Due to the length of the readings in RTR, you won't want to be reading aloud the RTR material, so you'll need to make sure your daughter can handle the readings within RTR mostly on her own. With that in mind, she will likely need to come a long way in order to handle that. So, working backward from there, I'm thinking that Bigger Hearts would be a good training ground for her in independence and in reading level. The font size is larger in the Eggleston books, and while the vocabulary is higher level it is nothing like that found within CTC or RTR. So, the training in reading Bigger would be a good step in the right direction. To get a feel for these readings, simply click on the links on this HOD page, which will take you to online versions of the text. Link: http://www.heartofdakota.com/BHFHG-history.php

This will help give you some guidance in that area. Also, it would likely help your daughter feel more confident to be able to take over more of the Bigger guide as the year progresses, truly training her in the needed skills both in reading and in independence. I consider Bigger to be a foundational year that is good to have especially for students who need a bit more time to develop in the reading department. The material is very interesting even for an older student, and the skills taught in the guide help so much on the later HOD guide paths. Depending on how well she does in math, dictation, and grammar, you may have to borrow some of those from either Preparing or CTC to add to Bigger. Yet, I think having your daughter read the science in Bigger herself (and as much of the history as possible), with the goal of having her follow as many of the directions in the Bigger guide on her own as possible by year end too, is a good goal. You will know best whether this will be too much of a step back, but I'm thinking it is a good idea from what you've shared so far.

Blessings,
Carrie

[gotpeace91]

One thing to think about as you ponder is what the next year will look like if you continue on the path you're on.

So if we go with Bigger for her this year will we be doing CTC next year? Or should I wait and cross that bridge when we come to it depending on her reading ability? Should I continue having her do a written narration on the last day of the week so she will still be in practice with that?

The font size is larger in the Eggleston books, and while the vocabulary is higher level it is nothing like that found within CTC or RTR. So, the training in reading Bigger would be a good step in the right direction. To get a feel for these readings, simply click on the links on this HOD page, which will take you to online versions of the text. Link: http://www.heartofdakota.com/BHFHG-history.php

Ok so I had her read the first couple pages of these books and it was much easier for her than the CTC books AND she said, "I love this book. I want to do this one" (I haven't told her anything about what I'm contemplating.) Also, should I have her do the extensions in Bigger?

Also, it would likely help your daughter feel more confident to be able to take over more of the Bigger guide as the year progresses, truly training her in the needed skills both in reading and in independence.

Yes! She is the independent type and very organizational and I think she will thrive on being able to have the guide to herself to follow and cross off as she goes.

Depending on how well she does in math, dictation, and grammar, you may have to borrow some of those from either Preparing or CTC to add to Bigger

*She is doing level 4 in R&S Math right now and it's a perfect match for her abilities.
*She is doing R&S level 4 in English and I'm wondering what you think about pacing with that? I think I read somewhere that they are supposed to be done with level 6 by the end of grade 8. She's a 6th grader this year. Should I schedule it so she gets the whole book done for each of the next 3 years (including this year)?
*We are on the first level of dictation in CTC. We may fall back to the first level in Preparing if she continues to get them wrong several times as she has so far in CTC.

ETA: Thank you very much for your response Carrie! I know you are very busy and I really appreciate your help.

[my3sons]

I was going to say Option 2, and it looks like that's what Carrie thinks too. (We like to read and contemplate our own advice separately first, in the hope that we'll both give what we think for advice, as sometimes we're the same and sometimes not, and sometimes a person can mesh better with one of the plans than the other. )

So, I'll answer your questions here, but Carrie may or may not think the same. I'd go with Bigger this year and not worry about next year until next year, as it's hard to say what will be best then. I think you'll know better then. I also think that you'll find things go much more smoothly and can be done much more independently with your dd doing BHFHG and your older doing CTC. I would not want to be reading aloud the number of pages read in CTC and definitely not in RTR - they're meant to be read independently at that age.

How has the written narration gone? If well, and she can still give reading the focus you want her to and can still do the rest of the Bigger Hearts guide well, I'd continue with the written narrations once a week.

I'd look at the extensions and see if she can read them independently easily. If not, I would not do them. Bigger Hearts will be meaty enough without them and they're intended to be read independently rather than to become another read-aloud for parents.

For R & S English 4, how's it going? If well, I'd continue with the pace you've started, and do it mainly orally. Finishing level 6 by the end of grade 8 in an overall goal, but you can finish out 6 her ninth grade year if need be too. English 7 and 8 are high school credit worthy and can be done throughout high school, with completing 8 an option.

For dictation, I always think if they're missing a bunch in a row and not improving, it's too hard. If they're missing a few here and there and then progressing, they're probably accurately placed. HTH! Here's one more link that may help:
Carrie explains how to beef up Bigger Hearts for seventh grader:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=640

In Christ,
Julie

[gotpeace91]

So, I'll answer your questions here, but Carrie may or may not think the same...

I wanted to say that I welcomed your input but I didn't want to sound pushy toward you or ungrateful for any advice Carrie gave me.

I also think that you'll find things go much more smoothly and can be done much more independently with your dd doing BHFHG and your older doing CTC. I would not want to be reading aloud the number of pages read in CTC and definitely not in RTR - they're meant to be read independently at that age.

I made the big announcement this morning that they will each be following their own guide and doing the work independently. They are SO excited. I am happy too because CTC WAS kind long to be reading aloud. DS is doing his work right now and loving it. It's weird too because he's actually talking to me about what he's reading More than he did when I was reading it. Before, it was just listen to mom and lets get this over with. For right now until we get dd's books she is doing Math, English, and DITHR everyday.

How has the written narration gone? If well, and she can still give reading the focus you want her to and can still do the rest of the Bigger Hearts guide well, I'd continue with the written narrations once a week.

Weeell...kind of so-so. Last time I told her to use the questions to help her get an idea of what to write. So she wrote out the answers to the questions (w/ lots of spelling mistakes) and showed it to me. So I told her to tell me a story about what we had been reading and she laid on the couch and told me a really good and complete narration. So I wrote as she dictated and then had her copy it in her Student Notebook.

I'd look at the extensions and see if she can read them independently easily. If not, I would not do them. Bigger Hearts will be meaty enough without them and they're intended to be read independently rather than to become another read-aloud for parents.

Yes, I've learned my lesson about doing all the reading. I came to HOD knowing nothing about CM and I still don't know much because my library does not have ANY books by her. My library does, however, have Pedro's Journal which is the first book in the extensions so I'll check that out and see how she does with it.

For R & S English 4, how's it going? If well, I'd continue with the pace you've started, and do it mainly orally. Finishing level 6 by the end of grade 8 in an overall goal, but you can finish out 6 her ninth grade year if need be too. English 7 and 8 are high school credit worthy and can be done throughout high school, with completing 8 an option.

She is doing really well with English 4. I think I will start out on schedule to finish it this year and see how it goes. I can always slow down if we need to.

For dictation, I always think if they're missing a bunch in a row and not improving, it's too hard. If they're missing a few here and there and then progressing, they're probably accurately placed.

I think we will fall back to about the middle of the first level in Preparing because she has been getting every passage wrong at least twice.

Carrie explains how to beef up Bigger Hearts for seventh grader:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=640

OK I've pasted something she said below.

These titles would require a strong 6th-7th grade reader/literature lover to read on his/her own. If your kiddo is not wired that way, you could just use the Extension Package in "Bigger..." for additional history literature and add a single spine such as "This Country of Ours" by H.E. Marshall to "beef up" the history.

She is not a strong reader so I think we will stick with the extensions. Would I be reading "This Country of Ours" or would she?

[my3sons]

Leah,
You have some good insight here, and I think you've made some good decisions. I was agreeing with all you'd decided, and thinking this is going to be such a nice year for you and your dc. For the written narrations, you may want to focus on quality rather than quantity. I think I'd have her do just 3 sentences, focusing on a beginning, middle, and end - as well as reading her narration out loud before she gives it to you, so she can fix any errors she "hears" or "sees". At that point, I'd just jot the missed things in the margin for her to fix within it. So if on line 1 she missed "frend", I'd just jot "friend" in the margin of that line. If on line 3 of her paper she missed a period, I'd put a period in the margin, and try to have her figure out where it should go. This is a way to help dc fix errors without us verbally telling them all of the time how to do, and without us writing it as copywork for them to fix it. I've found it a good way to go about it with my older ds as he's matured, plus it puts some of the fixing on their shoulders, teaching them to revise more independently. Once 3 sentences are going quite well, she can move to doing 5.

As far as the extensions, I would not have her read them, and I would not read them myself either. For "This Country of Ours", I'd possibly read that aloud to her in short segments. Only you can know this, it seems like this may be a year to focus on teaching her independence with Bigger Hearts, and to help her focus on growing her reading/writing skills. These two goals seem key for her this year, so you can decide if adding "This Country of Ours" for you to read aloud is feasible or not, as you have other dc to homeschool too. If you do add "This Country of Ours", I'd do it as a read aloud, and do a shorter segment of reading of it each day. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[Tree House Academy]

I am no expert, but i did want to suggest NOT doing the Bigger extensions with your dd if she is a struggling reader already. The reason: My then 10 year old, 5th grader did Bigger with Extensions for a portion of last year (bad placement on my part and we stopped after 8 weeks...now we are thrilled to be back and placed in the correct guide for my ds! ). My son is an excellent reader and the extensions were tough for him...and made a lot of extra reading. He is a good reader, but doesn't lOVE to read. Just my advice from my limited experience.

[gotpeace91]

Thank you very much for the great advice Julie! I'm definitely going to use those tips about her written narrations.
Also, thank you, Rebecca for the heads-up about the extension package. I think I'll not use it after all. Since my daughter never reads books unless they're assigned for her in school I'm thinking about making up our own little genre based "extensions". Only using much fewer and easier books. Then I will just set the timer for 15 min or so and let her read and get through them at her own pace. Here's my tentative list:
Squanto
A Lion to Guard Us
Hannah
The Littles
Treasure of Pelican Cove
Nature Reader Vol 1
Who's that stepping on Plymouth Rock
The Secret School
In Grandma's Attic