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At the risk of annoying some (or many) of you, I am here yet again with my wishy-washy-ness. I have gone back and forth about what to do with my oldest two children for the new school year. We had an eventful year last year with an infant (turned 1 in March) and a move last fall. We had ordered Preparing...late then only got through about 13 weeks of it before June. Actually, I had started my oldest ds in CTC but shelved it after a few weeks b/c he did not seem ready to do the independent work...not mentally/academically but more about habits and doing his best, if you know what I mean. So then the two oldest were in Preparing... together for the remainder of the year. My youngest has begun Beyond....We are only in the first unit but it is going well, and I think he will do just fine. I don't know, if I decide to place my oldest two in HOD again, whether I should combine them or put them into separate programs. I really feel my oldest could easily manage RTR and my dd 10 probably could too....but should she (or they) do CTC first? I am aware that each guide builds on the other but let's pretend we are just finding HOD this year. Where would you all recommend I place them as a newbie? Either way my son will be using the extensions and my daughter will not, it's really more about the time period I guess and what is best. Will they miss too much if we just jump right into RTR? I really want them both to be able to do the devotional selections....we are so needing that type of 'education' in our home right now! What to do? I feel so silly at this point...we start our school year, officially, on August 16th and I'm still trying to decided what we're doing?! I also have to take into account two very important events that are coming up this fall.....the arrival of baby #5 in October (or there about) and another move shortly after, probably toward the end of October. I want to have something that is pick up and go, which I know HOD is.....I already own several other 'curricula' but can't decided if I should go with what I already have on my shelves and have to use the library more, or if I should just buy the HOD program (or programs) and have it all right here accessible. Also keep in mind, I am using Beyond... with ds 7 and will have a toddler and a newborn, as well as a move thrown in this year. I am SO in need of advice...Help, please?

I think that you'll probably want to try to keep them together as you're already adding in more "work" for yourself with the new arrival and a move. You all like the combining route, right? From knowing the HOD programs and MY 10 yo, I would personally go wtih CTC. I'd say take a long hard look at the placement chart and look at what they really can ALREADY do so that you can objectively see where they would place if you were just arriving here. The areas that I'd really think about are...
Written narrations - you've had a good intro to those in the beginning of Preparing, but to go from the 1st 1/3 of Preparing to being able to already write an 8-10 sentence narration on your own sounds like a HUGE jump to me. (I think if I'd done that with Grant, it would have been like throwing him in the deep end of the pool once he could doggie paddle. He might have made it to the side ok, or he might have gone under sputtering and needed to be rescued. ) And, that's a pretty important skill that they're going to be using to show you that they're comprehending the content in history and science in the guides. Preparing walked us through that so well...and now we're going to keep getting a bit of hand-holding in CTC to move into doing that more independently.
Length of independent readings - I think they grow quite a bit from Preparing to CTC to RTR. Your oldest would probably be fine with that. But I'd think about how your daughter would do. You wouldn't want her to go from being succesful in reading to feeling like she's not good at it and struggling again. Or maybe that wouldn't be an issue. I haven't actually looked at the RTR books and guide. But I do know that the readings in CTC are a big step up from what Grant did independnetly in Preparing.
Other independnet tasks - like research. I know this took us all year to grow into doing well. I helped Grant with it all year in Preparing - knowing that this year he'd be more on his own. (So far...week 1...it seems to have "worked"! ) Vocabulary has been a challenge the last 2 years here - and I'm hoping is a skill that he can do more quickly this year. It looks like outlining is added in to RTR.

Some of the other areas I know you're doing your own thing that you'll continue with, so those wouldn't be as important to consider. If it were me and I was really wanting the Bible study for boy/girl, I'd just get the RTR guide and add that to the day with your oldest (or both if you think it's necessary). Then you'd have it for higher levels of dictation that you might need, too.

You'll have to let us know what you think - where they place if you were "new" here. Praying for you as you decide!
Kathleen

I was going to add, too, that HOD has been the easiest thing for ME to use that actually accomplishes what I want it to.
It would probably be easier on me to just have a stack of workbooks or textbooks that I make out a plan of doing "x" pages (with a lesson plan for the week). Then I'd just have to check them. BUT, I'd miss out on having the interaction with my kids and their hearts! And, truly that's too much for me to give up! They're growing up so fast and we only get a few years to touch their little hearts before they "leave the nest". HOD's boxes are so easy for me to follow and keep me on track with streamlining our day AND put in the time for me to have the heart-to-heart conversations as we go. We don't drag anything out during the day-to-day...but over the course of the year I can really see the spiritual training that's taking place that I know I'd have a hard time being consistent with if it wasn't right there in front of me in little bits every day.

I have no suggestions for you, but now I'm craving waffles.

Khara,

Ha! We had waffles this morning, as we do most Saturdays....maybe that's why 'waffling' was the word I chose!

Kathleen, thanks so much for your input. I truly appreciate the time you took to go over things with me. I'm still pondering, but honestly my time is growing short! I am even considering just having my dd finish Preparing... since we only did the first 1/3rd and placing my son in RTR. As much as I love the readings myself, I am going to need both of my older two to be as independent as possible since I am also schooling ds 7 in Beyond..., have a toddler, and a newborn by Oct. There are some areas in CTC and even RTR where my dd would do fine, but the writing I don't think is up to par, hence my thinking about Preparing...again for her. So, still trying to decide.

Anyone else have suggestions?

You have had so much on your plate, inHistiming! It is understandable that this is point to step back and take a fresh look at things to see what's best from this point forward. Kathleen did an awesome job of summing up the differences in difficulty to consider. I would be concerned that if ds had difficulty with the independence in CTC and needed to move to PHFHG to finish the year, that he would have the same (only increased) difficulty with the independence in RTR. I think you truly need for your older dc to be independent, and that is a very important part of placement to consider. Just because there is more independence planned in a guide, that does not mean the child will be more independent if they are not ready for it. Then, that just makes independent activities dependent, because they require us to help again. I would honestly choose with that in mind. I'd look at your 2 olders and consider how they could each best achieve independence. I'd look at your time too. I don't think I'd consider RTR for your oldest yet, but would instead see if he could be independent with CTC. I'd also weigh whether the 2 of them can be more independent together or separate. How do they do sharing books and a guide? Would it just be easier to have them doing separate guides? If your younger does PHFHG, that child could read the history on his/her own. What do you think is the most independent placement overall for them? We'll keep chatting about this until you've got a plan you feel you can work with. I want to help you as much as possible!

In Christ,
Julie

Okay....here are some of my thoughts.

For my ds 12....dh and I have had the same discussion....maybe putting him in CTC. Would he do the entire thing independently? I was planning, if we put him there, to only do the T boxes with him, which is what we tried earlier in the year. Probably if I had stuck with it he would have eventually gotten it and been capable, but I felt we did not have time for that....in hind sight maybe I should have made the time. I would plan to buy the extension package for him to read on his own inplace of the basic...unless it's recommended he do both....but since I'll be doing Beyond...read alouds and probably Preparing... as well, he needs to be able to do that on his own. He's capable....just wondering if he should read both or just one or the other. Oh, after re-reading, I noticed you said dd could do the history on her own...do you mean the self-study only or the history readings as well that are normally done aloud?

For dd, since her writing and spelling need work as well as reading (though she is doing very well...just not sure she could do CTC or RTR readings independently) I was thinking Preparing...would be best for her....starting where we left off and completing the guide, then moving into CTC once we finish sometime around Feb. 2011. If I do this, would I need to get the extensions? I know for the age range she fits at the top end of the range, but I noticed under the extension description it says the self-study deluxe package is for 3rd and 4th graders...she'll be in 5th. But, I'm embarrassed to say that I made a rash decision in the spring and sold both CTC and Preparing....so we will be starting all over with ordering if we go this route...so need to save money if possible. I don't want to buy both....and we will do our own story-time books either from our own shelves or the library to save money there too. I'm very fortunate that my dh is understanding and willing to let me even consider doing this with the waffling I've been doing. He does require that whatever I choose be what we stick with and finish this year (understandably! ) but he wants me to choose what is going to work best for us this year with all we have going on. It's wonderful that he says that....but he has unknowingly put me under more stress to 'get it right'. I know I have to make whatever we do work and not give up. Other suggetions based on what I've said here are greatly appreciated!

For the record, I have absolutely 100% never found you to be annoying - rather a wonderful Christian lady I'm thrilled to know! (Sorry to digress, I just read that part of your first post which I somehow missed.)

inHistiming wrote:...For my ds 12....dh and I have had the same discussion....maybe putting him in CTC. Would he do the entire thing independently? I was planning, if we put him there, to only do the T boxes with him, which is what we tried earlier in the year.

Yes, I do think that is a very good, achievable goal. My ds did all of the boxes labeled "I" totally independently in CTC last year, and the boxes labeled "S", we did a bit of a chat about what was required, a bit of a lesson together (i.e. in math, DITHOR, and grammar) and then he did the rest totally independently. We had a small chat about the Poetry painting, so he had in mind the end result, but then he did the entire work of the box independently. The "S" box for history project my ds did totally independently. If I had a 12 yo, I'd have him do the "T" box Storytime reading independently, and just do the follow-up with him for my part. CTC ought to be very independent, yet still an excellent program this way. As far as the basic or extension, or both - I totally think this becomes personal preference at this age, especially if you are doing multiple guides. Whatever you choose, either one or both may be read by him. CM advocated dc taking over the bulk of their reading at age 9 or so. We ease into that over the years with HOD, first with science, then with reading about history, and last with Storytime, but your ds is at the age he can (and according to CM should) do it all.
Here are the goals of the Storytime box:
Day 1: give a detailed oral narration
Day 2: rotate through the following 4 narration activities: an outline sketch, a short skit, a question and answer session, and an advertisement speech for the book
Day 3: give a summary narration
Day 4: make connections between the story and Proverbs
The storytime box (even if he reads it) will require you to do a 5 minute follow-up with him.

The extension package is meant to be done totally independently. The follow-up activities are also independent (except for the oral narration one you need to listen to). Here are the notes to consider in the Introduction in regard to the extension package:
Due to the more mature
content of the books within the ancient time period – both in the violence that was
prevalent in this period and the depravity of worship of pagan gods – this extension
package is best suited for mature 6th and 7th graders who are strong, independent
readers.

A schedule of daily independent readings for these books is provided in the
Appendix of Hearts for Him Through Time: Creation to Christ. Books are at a
mid-sixth to upper seventh grade reading level. For very sensitive sixth or seventh
graders, or for those who are not yet strong readers, we recommend the Basic
Package Option 1 – History Set for the parent to read aloud instead.

inHistiming wrote:I noticed you said dd could do the history on her own...do you mean the self-study only or the history readings as well that are normally done aloud?

I meant the "Reading about History" box and the "Independent History" box readings - and also the Storytime too, for that matter, if she's able and you just do the follow-ups with her.

inHistiming wrote:For dd, since her writing and spelling need work as well as reading (though she is doing very well...just not sure she could do CTC or RTR readings independently) I was thinking Preparing...would be best for her....starting where we left off and completing the guide, then moving into CTC once we finish sometime around Feb. 2011. If I do this, would I need to get the extensions? I know for the age range she fits at the top end of the range, but I noticed under the extension description it says the self-study deluxe package is for 3rd and 4th graders...she'll be in 5th.

I do think PHFHG is an excellent placement for dd, that she should be able to be much more independent in it than if she was trying to do CTC, and that you could choose either the deluxe or the extensions for her. I would pick whichever she can truly be independent with as they are both wonderful. I'd personally lean toward the deluxe, to give her a year to work on independence (as the plans are in the 2 page spread) and to let her soar! But you'll know best here.

I think you'll find this to be a good fit for all and more manageable for you too! You would enjoy the personal nature this lends to doing devotions too. Both of my ds's share much more in our individual devotion time than they do when we're all together. The character training this affords is priceless.

In Christ,
Julie

Julie, thanks so much for all your words of encouragement! I always love the way you go over everything with everyone...so giving of your time.

I like your suggestions for the older two doing everything independently and I just follow-up with them. I think they would like that (not needing to wait around for mom to be ready to read) and it would free me up tremendously to work with ds 7 and take care of the toddler and baby. Yay....I think we have a plan...if we decide to use HOD with them. I have been going around in circles, driving myself (and my husband) crazy with this curriculum dilemma. Now to check with hubby to see if this is actually the right decision....and more prayer too. Thanks so much for your input!

I'm glad to help and hope dh catches the vision of the plan too! Praying for that - hope you are feeling well this last trimester.
In Christ,
Julie

Okay, back with one more question, or clarification. If ds and dd are doing everything independently, would I still do devotionals with them, or should they be taking over everything at their ages, then I do the follow-ups as noted? Just trying to get a picture of how this would look....so I can decided for sure what we're doing. Thanks so much Julie! And anyone else who may know.....

Sorry I'm just getting back to you! For CTC, I'd stay in touch with him by doing all of the Bible Study box and the Geography box. I'd keep in sync with his LA/math by doing the DITHOR teacher part of the lesson, grammar intro to the lesson, math intro to the lesson, and the intro lesson to Write with the Best (he may need some more guidance at the start of WWTB and less as he goes). Otherwise, he could read the history, science, storytime, etc. on his own, as well as independently doing all of the rest of the plans (other than the short teacher follow-ups like you listening to his 5 minute oral narrations, etc.). I'd say your teaching time would be around an hour or less.

For PHFHG, I'd do the Bible Study, Poetry and Geography with your child. I'd also more closely oversee the Vocabulary, Research , as well as the written narration day of the Reading about History box for a good solid month or so to make sure that gets into a good pattern of going well, but after that training, the boxes become familiar enough the activities can be done very independently. To keep up on the LA/math, I'd still do the DITHOR teacher part of the lesson, grammar intro to the lesson, math intro to the lesson, and the poetry creative writing lesson. Otherwise, I'd just do the teacher follow-ups to the rest of the plans, which are very short. I'm guessing your teacher time would be around an hour and a half or less. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

inHistiming,

I am somewhat late to this thread, and think that the ladies have done a terrific job of talking through your best options with you when placing your kiddos where they fit best in each program. I wanted to pop-in and also mention that it's a good idea to consider the curves that life has ahead of you for this year as well, when pondering how many programs you can actually get done.

With that in mind, I'm thinking that your child in Beyond seems well placed. As far as your older two kiddos go, I would likely lean toward combining them in some fashion in order to make your life easier. Since it doesn't sound like your daughter is ready for CTC, I would likely lean toward combining your son with her in Preparing Hearts with extensions for your son instead. It would also probably be wise to add some of the right side of CTC or of RTR for your oldest child to beef up the science (either doing life science from CTC or earth science from RTR). I'd also add either Igniting Your Writing for your son or Write with the Best from CTC. You'll need a higher level of Rod and Staff English and DITHR, plus a higher level of math. You could use the dictation from CTC or RTR for your son, whichever right side you end up adding. You could also ponder adding the purity study if you added a bit from RTR or the Psalm study if you added a bit from CTC.

In this way, your daughter and son could be together for some things and separate for the 3 R's, science, and a bit of the Bible study. I think this plan would allow them to travel the HOD path somewhat together, have less teaching time and juggling for you, and would allow for you to bump up your son to a higher guide on a different year when things are less stressful in the life department that you're dealing with (like a move and a baby).

I think it's important to keep your older two moving forward and to be realistic in your expectations of yourself too. I'd just pick Preparing Hearts back up where you stopped and finish. Then, move right on with the pair into CTC. You'll find that steady progress forward through a guide will do wonders for your kiddos' skills. We have many, many moms using CTC and RTR with highschoolers. I will say that RTR is VERY challenging and will take a strong academic student, especially if that student is new to HOD.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Blessings,
Carrie