Placing Children - Bigger or Preparing?

Tiffini · Post by **Tiffini** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:33 am

You have been so helpful with my questions so far, so I thought I'd bring some more!

I am really debating over the best plan of action for next year. As I've stated in a previous post, we have done MFW ADV and are finishing up MFW ECC currently. Here is my dilemma. My three children (10 yo, twin 7 yos, 2-1/2 yrs apart in age) fall in different places on the chart. The older would be Preparing, the youngers would be Bigger. But, I truly want to combine them as we have combined all along so far and really enjoy that. I feel strongly about continuing in that.

I think we could all stand to redo American History more in-depth but my oldest isn't excited about that. I am also concerned as she is doing several things independently right now and I don't want to go backward on that. On the other hand, I really would like her to get more grounded in American as we basically skimmed before (with MFW) and my youngers were only 1st grade level at that time - so I know they could use it! Also, if anyone here has done ECC before, would the Geo and map work, etc., be a huge step backwards from that in Bigger..?

On the other hand, with Preparing, I like that there will be writing instruction there as my older is definitely ready for that. I like that Preparing starts leading more towards independent work, since my oldest is already pretty independent. Is there any of that in Bigger? Water2Wine, how does that aspect work with your 5th grader doing Bigger as I'm sure she is more independent than your youngers.

With Preparing, do you think there will be much focus yet on the negative aspects of ancient history or will that come later with the first year of the history cycle? I guess only Carrie can aswer that one.

If I were to go with Bigger, do you have any advice for how to get my oldest excited about American History - maybe filling me in on some of the exciting details?! She is thinking about our year with MFW ADV and it got rather dry in the second half and really didn't have many exciting stories to read.

Just really trying to think through all of these things. I am looking forward to when I have some experience and can help others out with their own questions!

inHistiming · Post by **inHistiming** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:24 pm

I've not done Bigger yet, we'll begin mid-summer..but here is my opinion. I empathize with you in desiring to please your daughter; that has played a large role in some of my decisions when choosing curriculum.

However, you do need to remember that you, as the parent and teacher, know best what she needs to learn or review. If you feel it best that you keep them all together right now, and that you should do American History again, I say that's what you should do. You could always allow her to pursue her main interests by reading and doing special projects on those particular topics. Maybe you could find some posts here that talk about how much the parents and children are enjoying Bigger, and let her read them. You could also print out the PDF that has the week 1 plans, and try those for a week to see how it goes...maybe you could find the read alouds, etc. at the library. (check the main web site under Bigger packages) This may give you an idea about how your DC like Bigger, and whether it's a good fit for all of them, as well as how it will flow. I don't know if there is a week of plans available for Preparing...I think maybe not until mid-April...but then, when that's available, you could try the week's plans for that. Then, maybe you would have a better idea of what is involved in all of the different subjects, and which program might work for which children. Ultimately, as the teacher/parent, you have the final say. You could try explaining to her that you want to please her and study what she wants to learn, but that you think ____________ is the best choice right now. (Maybe you've already done that

) Another suggestion; check out the weekly HOD check-in. There are some great pics and posts about what families are doing each week. You may find someone who has posted activities from Bigger that give specifics about what they are learning and doing.

Well, I hope at least some of that made sense. It's so difficult to know if it's the right fit until you try it, but it's also difficult to order something sight unseen! I know some other ladies will chime in here with their 2 cents, and I'm sure God will guide you in making the best decision for all of you. HTH

blessedmomof4 · Post by **blessedmomof4** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:02 pm

I completely agree with everything inHistiming said! Just wanted to add, Rod and Staff English at the grade 4 level covers writing very thoroughly, and if you still needed more, Heart of Dakota offers a writing program called Igniting Your Writing-follow this link and scroll down the page for descriptions.
http://www.heartofdakota.com/drawn-into ... ations.php
These things along with Drawn into the Heart of Reading level 4/5 will cover all language arts for your older student.
Of course, if you already have a language arts you like, you can stick with it.
I don't know what you plan for math, but if you want to use Singapore Math, make sure your children take the placement test.
http://www.singaporemath.com/Placement_Test_s/86.htm
Don't forget, the Extension Pack for Bigger Hearts adds challenging independent reading assigmnments in History and Science for a 4th or 5th grader.
Your younger students will have more than enough using Bigger as written.
If your heart says your kids need more American History, go for it! You won't be disappointed! Bigger is a great program, and my own girls are enjoying it greatly.

Melanie · Post by **Melanie** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:53 pm

Completely agreeing with Lourdes and Wendy......Bigger is your best bet and I think would be easier to pull off with trying to keep them all together. Much easier to add the things Lordes pointed out for LA/reading than to try to bring Preparing down a level or two for your twins.

The books in Bigger are terrific and I think once your dd begins, she will enjoy. You are the parent and what you decide is best should be the deciding factor.

Do Bigger as written for your twins.
Add the extension pack and the things Lourdes pointed out and you should be all set.

Mel

Tiffini · Post by **Tiffini** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:31 pm

Thank you so much, gals! So helpful to hear from others rather than the thoughts rattling around in my own head.

You know, I think it would be nice to do something lower than my oldest's level and beef it up rather than the other way around as we have been doing it. I always feel lke the youngers are short changed and the older is frustrated with all the time I have to take to explain everything to the youngers all the time. If she had her own things to read on a harder level and made it feel more like her own, she might like that.

A friend and I were talking about how much weight you should give to your children's opinions. You don't want them to feel like their opinions don't matter and are invalid, and yet, quite obviously, they don't have the big picture of their education in their head nor are they praying about curriculum for next year. (At least no 10 yos I know are praying about that.)

Thanks for your suggestions, inHistiming, about those issues. That was exactly along the lines I was thinking.

The other I am thinking about - and maybe I'm just thinking too far ahead and I need to let it go - please feel free to say so if I am - I can take it.

If we would stick with HOD for a long term and Carrie keeps writing, do you think the programs for the 7th and 8th grade would have an extension pack to use for high school students as well - like the current programs have extensions for the next two grades? Again, probably a question only Carrie would know about. If she does actually write through 8th as she plans, I would like to be able to use all of those programs, but my oldest would be in 9th and 10th by then. (Not talking about completing a history cycle here, but just thinking about high school years). Yes, I know I am officially trying to think too far ahead! But that has crossed my mind as I consider between Preparing and Bigger because I want my older to get to use the other programs, too, and if we started with Bigger, it would put us back a bit. Does that make any sense?

blessedmomof4 · Post by **blessedmomof4** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:55 pm

HappyatHome wrote:You know, I think it would be nice to do something lower than my oldest's level and beef it up rather than the other way around as we have been doing it. I always feel lke the youngers are short changed and the older is frustrated with all the time I have to take to explain everything to the youngers all the time. If she had her own things to read on a harder level and made it feel more like her own, she might like that.

This is one of the reasons I switched from MFW ECC and another similar program. After 2 years of doing that-her having to wait while I re-explained things to the littler ones, that my oldest daughter became totally adverse to the thought of doing school with her younger sisters any more, and is now doing separate work. I secretly wish I had simply done Bigger with her and just "beefed it up" with the extension pack and perhaps much more writing, since she is an 8th grader.

Post by **Carrie** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:57 pm

HappyatHome,

I see you are a planner!

A woman after my own heart!

The ladies have give you wonderful advice. They are completely correct with the philosophy at HOD being that it is easier to beef up a program for your older kiddos than it is to "water it down appropriately" for the youngers. Otherwise, it often feels as if the little ones are just being dragged along trying to keep up with the olders. I know this from my own experiences!

I do think that a good dose of American history is wanted prior to moving into the 4 year cycle of history. So, if you haven't had a pretty good, interesting coverage of American, I'd do it now. Even if all you get of world history is a one-year overview prior to high school, you'd be at what most public schools have for their kiddos in history coverage prior to high school. So, anything you get beyond that is a bonus, in my opinion.

With that being said, the way I would get your older daughter excited about "Bigger..." (if she is a book lover) is to show her the Extension Pack books and their descriptions to show her what she'll be reading. If you have a chance to order the extension books ahead of time or show her some of them from the library that will get her "juices flowing". It always does for my oldest son! Here's a link to the Extension Pack:
http://www.heartofdakota.com/BHFHG-extension.php

If your daughter is not a book lover, then show her some of the plans from the first week of "Bigger..." with the projecty or notebooking entries she'll be making to get her excited about those areas.

As far as writing goes, Lourdes gave you excellent advice about the coverage of writing in Rod and Staff (and also possibly adding "Igniting Your Writing" if you felt you needed more). We do suggest that along with the Extension Pack in the back of the "Bigger..." guide to have your child do a written narration on what they read twice each week, an oral narration twice each week, and a drawing/summary assignment once each week. This does cover another necessary form of writing (summarizing). Drawn into the Heart.... will completely cover you for literature study.

As far as "Preparing..." goes, we try to cover the sweep of history in as tasteful of a way as possible in regards to the mature content that can crop up in that type of study. It is balanced very well, I think, with the combination of Bible with child-friendly tone in Hillyer.

I hope that helps. Only you can truly know what is best for your kiddos. One more way for you to check out the content used in our core books for "Bigger..." is to look at the text of "Stories of Great Americans" and "A First Book in American History" - both are in the public domain and can be read online at the links on this page from our website:
http://www.heartofdakota.com/BHFHG-history.php

Blessings,
Carrie

water2wine · Post by **water2wine** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:52 pm

HappyatHome wrote:
On the other hand, with Preparing, I like that there will be writing instruction there as my older is definitely ready for that. I like that Preparing starts leading more towards independent work, since my oldest is already pretty independent. Is there any of that in Bigger? Water2Wine, how does that aspect work with your 5th grader doing Bigger as I'm sure she is more independent than your youngers.

Let me first explain that I have an interesting situation because my dd with special needs is the same age as my older dd in 5th now heading into 6th (and we will be using Bigger for most of that year). So I do read aloud the extension pack for that reason. BUT two of my kids then grab the books and read them on their own again. Seriously, they are just that good. I had actually some of the suggestions Carrie had for beefing it up even beyond the extension http://www.heartofdakota.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=640
and I have her doing that on her own. I had some of it but it is really more for the fact that I took away the independent things in the extension pack and want her to get used to independent work. Planet Earth could definitely be done on their own for that age. I actually have my 5th grader do it with my dd that has special needs for the written part and I do not even participate in that. It could all be very independent and I would let me dd do it all that way if I wasn't trying to carry my dd with special needs to a level beyond what she is capable on her own if that makes sense. Another thing you can do is if you are planning on DITHR you can gear some of those books to also cover the time period. I did some of that as well.

I completely agree with what Carrie said here too.

She has excellent advice. If you are wanting more writing I do something with my dd sometimes that is fun. I let her rewrite history. A kind of what if this part didn't happen. An example would be to let her rewrite Columbus journey but write what maybe would have happened if he had actually kept his original call from God and not got caught up in greed and pride (this links to Bible as well). Or I will let her write something as if she were the person in History, like how did they experience it. She has dreams of being a writer one day so we have done this for a while. It's an easy thing to do and very independent just for a little writing practice and to cement events in their heads and hearts. I do it sometimes with Bible as well. Just another idea to add some more writing if you wanted that for free.

Let me know if I completely did not answer your question.

my3sons · Post by **my3sons** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:00 pm

Hi there! I just wanted to chime in and say that I do think your dd would enjoy Bigger... along with the extension pack. The reading, the notebooking, the activities - they're all things I know she'd enjoy. I have to confess I sometimes wish as I am doing the Bigger... activities that I could have done them as a young girl. I would have loved them. Just the notebooking alone would have had me hooked. I wish I could just invite you over to come see a day of our homeschooling with Bigger... I know your concerns would be put to rest. Often it's not the time period that becomes difficult to do, but the familiarity of the method. I think your dd would be thoroughly refreshed by the methods in HOD's Bigger... It may be like revisiting the time period in a whole new way than she's done - and a whole new exciting experience for her! I feel in my heart that if you wish to keep your dc together, Bigger... is the answer. And as far as whether or not guides will be written through eighth grade, I am totally certain they will be. Carrie is a person of her word - a fellow long-term planner with you m'dear, and if she says she's writing curriculum through eighth grade - you can be sure she will, as sure as the sun sets and rises each day! Praying for you as you determine which HOD placement is best for you!
In Christ,
Julie

water2wine · Post by **water2wine** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:38 pm

my3sons wrote:And as far as whether or not guides will be written through eighth grade, I am totally certain they will be. Carrie is a person of her word - a fellow long-term planner with you m'dear, and if she says she's writing curriculum through eighth grade - you can be sure she will, as sure as the sun sets and rises each day!

I believe that. I take it as fact that it will be done. And beyond that I see her doing things on time as well. Her commitment level to parents is way beyond the business level. I look forward to doing everything under the sun from now until the 8th grade.

Also just wanted to add that please don't be confused by my other post. I am a little off in the sleep department. What Carrie has in there is enough for your child. Also I don't think I mentioned that I had my dd already in the middle of R&S LA, the whole thing, when we started. So I am not using for her the LA as Carrie says. Ok sometimes I still do some of the stuff she suggests because it is fun, but mostly we are continuing with the routine of what we were doing. But we are moving in a few months to a different level of R&S and I am thinking I will move also then to more of what Carrie suggests. My dd would not have been happy not finishing the Spelling etc she was already doing though when we switched to Bigger. Anyway all that to say that since we started mid year my kids were already on a path for LA so we did not change so my comments on what I do for writing are not geared to what Carrie has in the guide.

Tiffini · Post by **Tiffini** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:31 pm

Thank you, thank you, thank you! All of you have helped me so much.

My3sons, believe me, I would love to come hang out with you for a day and see it all work! I wish I lived closer... Thank you for your words of encouragement - just what I needed.

Water2Wine, thank you for answering my very specific question. I appreciate all the details you include in answering me. If it's not obvious, I am rather detail-oriented...

Carrie, thank you so much for taking the tim to answer each specific concern. I am especially glad for the links to the texts of the core books. That will be quite helpful.

Blessedmomof4, wow, your perspective was quite helpful to me! Thanks for sharing from your own similar experiences. That is really a confirmation to me of what I had been thinking.

I definitely have some more clarity on my thoughts now. Just need to spend some more time praying, discussing with my husband, and probably asking a few more questions.

Thank you so much for making this easier for me!

Placing Children - Bigger or Preparing?

Placing Children - Bigger or Preparing?

Re: Placing Children - Bigger or Preparing?