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I've actually written this post twice before but changed my mind but I'm going to push that submit button this time or ELSE! I need some advice on whether to use Bigger or Preparing for a 5th grader ---- background: My ds is a delayed reader and this year, in 4th, is finally reading almost independently. We have been working through the SL 2 Intermediate books and this April he started reading the chapter on his own, summarizing aloud and answering a few comprehension questions - only once did he have to go back and re-read. We are also working through and almost finished with All About Spelling Level 1 and will continue on. He does have signs of dsylexia but making progress. He also has dysgraphia - handwriting issues so we don't do a lot of handwriting or writing. We did start on WWE Book 1 and that has been wonderful and the progression in his handwriting is very noticeable. He is ambidextrous and some days he writes with the right and some days with the left (his father has similar traits!). I've focused a lot on just getting him to read and read strongly and have done very little writing over these early years. We did work through BJU English 2 (their skills overlap/repeat each year and I thought it would be best if he could read the sentences he was learning about) doing the grammar lessons but skipping the writing ones. I'm not convinced he had great retention based on his testing needs this year but it wasn't a total wash. He has also almost finished the first book in HWT that teaches cursive. Okay - so now you have a pretty good idea of where he is skill-wise.

We did Beyond for 2nd (we didn't complete the program which was mistake #1) because I wanted to work within the same time period and the older kids were studying Ancients so we took a break from HOD. Last year I wanted back with HOD and we tried Bigger but the Eggleston book left me going - what? I got confused over the Columbus trips so we ended up dropping the program hastily (mistake #2). I really like HOD and really want to keep on with HOD so I decided to try a week (using the sample online) and we worked through some of Preparing for the week (history portion). He loved the reading from Grandpa's Box but he wasn't able to answer any of the questions! He didn't like the science because he couldn't read the book. He loved making the coat of arms! (This from the child that doesn't like hands-on work!) I have been telling myself that Preparing would be fine but it will require me to do a lot of handholding and side-by-side work - which is fine (although I have 3 other kids - 1 who is younger and obviously needs my help, too). I sat down with him yesterday and told him some of my thoughts and wanderings and the bottomline was when I asked him about whether he was ready for more independent work, the answer was no. He just isn't that confident yet (we use TT Math 4 which he did beautifully but I was there by his side the whole time.) So, even though I'm thinking gee, another year of American History (actually we have yet to finish or get far into any American History year because the substitution last year for Bigger was a major flop!) maybe that is okay and Bigger would be okay to do. When I look at the extension, many of those books he could read independently this year for more reading practice but what about the English/writing. Is R&S 2 enough? Do I need to add something? Should I just do Preparing and do it all side-by-side? Thoughts?

My younger will be doing Beyond (2nd grade) and my one dd will be doing RTR as a 9th grader with some supplements. I tend to be a parent that doesn't push my kids to hurry up and grow up - my two high schoolers are wonderful kids - very responsible, bright (what parent says their kid is dumb, right?) and joyful, but there is always that voice in the back of my head worried "am I doing enough?"

Your thoughts
Heidi

Hi Heidi! Thanks for sharing about your ds here. It sounds like he has made some great gains in reading and writing too, which is something to truly celebrate. Well, I am thinking that Bigger Hearts would be the best placement for him, as he is not quite ready for independence and yet it would still challenge him enough while also giving him time to continue to grow in his reading and writing skills. Bigger Hearts would give him an excellent foundation to build upon, as it will teach him many skills from the roots up. Here is a post that describes the amount of writing in Bigger vs. PHFHG, in case that may be helpful in your decision:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3602

Doing Bigger Hearts would have you reading Eggleston, which we personally loved very much, but since you mentioned it I thought I would chat through that with you as well. We have done all of HOD's guides and seen Columbus revisited many times in many ways. I thought this portion of a past post Carrie had on the topic was so accurate:

It's important to note that the trip through Bigger Hearts is not the only time that we will be discussing American or world history, as kiddos will revisit these topics (and people) again and to a much fuller extent as they get older. For example, as far as Columbus goes we additionally schedule Pedro's Journal in the Bigger Hearts extension, A Child's Story of America's telling of Columbus in Bigger, the D'Aulaire book about Columbus within Preparing Heart's science, Hillyer's telling of Columbus within A Child's History of the World, and then Mystery of History III's more in-depth look at Columbus' life and actions in RTR.

Each telling adds more information and a different facet of a very complicated man! While you can easily research Columbus for yourself, I just wanted to mention the various times that we address him and the variety of authors that are used to delve more deeply into his life.

Bigger Hearts is meant to be an introduction to the men and women in American history. It is not meant to be an exhaustive study of their lives. While we may find it interesting as adults to fully explore the many resources on this man, it's good to note that children are still just trying to grasp the time period in which he lived, what his name is, and why we remember him. Once they have had a more thorough introduction into the time period in which he lived, and understand what was going on in the world religion-wise at the time when he left Spain, we can more fully understand the man himself. This takes place as we get into the higher grades, first with RTR and again in high school through the study of American history.

The same will be true for many other characters that are explored in history, such as Pocahontas...

Anyway, I thought that may help as you revisit Eggleston either with this ds or your next eventually. It sounds like your ds would continue to do well with his current math and his handwriting. You could either continue with the spelling program you are using or do the spelling or dictation in Bigger Hearts. The nice thing is that they are just in the manual, so no need to get anything extra to try them out if you'd like to. I do think he could start with R & S English 2, and he could do a very large portion of it orally. We do that, and have enjoyed doing it very much. My dc are both retaining what they learn well with doing it this way, so retention is not sacrificed by doing it mainly orally. As far as Bigger Hearts science, I bet he could read it and do it more independently if that's his heart's desire. Actually with any part of Bigger he is able to take over and read, he really could, as CM was a strong advocate of dc doing the reading themselves when able as retention is increased as well as LA skills of narrating.

But, what are your thoughts about this? I'd love to chat about this more with you. Another look at the placement chart may be beneficial too, as I could be off here. One other thought I'd had is that maybe you could start PHFHG half-speed? Doing it slowly, letting ds grow into it, but maybe doing full-speed with his reading and writing? I have prayed for you, Heidi, as you ponder what is best for your little guy. We will be doing RTR and Bigger Hearts (with half-speed LHTH) at our house next year - it would be fun to share our year with one another here.

In Christ,
Julie

Julie has explained things very well so I really don't have much to add. I just wanted to agree that I think Bigger...would be great to start with. We used it for my ds 5th grade and dd 3rd grade for 2008/2009 and LOVED it. And it does help you ease into a little more independence while still doing the majority of readings, etc. with your child. And if your ds is able, the extension readings are great too.

Thank you so much Julie for the comparison on the writing assignments between Bigger and Preparing - that is exactly the insight I needed to make an educated decision (rather than a "but I want to do this because of me" decision). He is not ready for all of the writing - not that you had to do all of it but if it is there, assigned, that pressure would be there to work through those assignments. When I looked at the placement charts and faced facts, he places more into the Bigger than the Preparing when it comes to the writing/LA portion and perhaps the grammar, too. I am proud of his accomplishments and want to keep him on the upward trend and not get him discouraged which is what I think would happen if I attempted Preparing too soon. There are parts of him that are more mature but then, he is still one of my "little boys" (I call my two teens "the big kids") and the two youngers are my "little boys." It is embarrassing to admit but picking this curriculum was sort of like worrying that someone would eat the last piece of cake before you finished your dinner - if I don't hurry up and use it will be all gone. kwim? I am so glad that I finally put into print what I was thinking and the valuable feedback.

My dd is excited to work through RTR because of the hands-on and independence - that's your girls for ya! My youngest ds will work through Beyond (he did enjoy many of the hands-on stuff the first time we went through with big brother (his pictures are in the Beyond photobook but who's telling)

As for Columbus - it was just me getting lost between the paragraphs describing voyages - something about his first trip and then the next paragraph went on about the 3rd trip and I was like "what happened to trip #2?" Just me and my need for order I suppose. Not to worry.

I think the extensions (another thing I was trying to do this past Fall and obviously an overload to my ds) this time would be excellent in helping with additional reading experience. We'll stick with AAS because that is working - he needs the visual, hands-on that it presents and it also re-enforces the phonics lessons he has had and the success has been wonderful not to mention retention. This particular ds has brain drain from Friday's to Mondays but his math and spelling have managed to stay the course. He actually told me after about lesson 15 or so - "wow! I had no idea I could spell these words." Yes, last year was probably the greatest for this particular ds and my oldest ds (entering 11th but that's another long.......... story. He was diagnosed with a severe hearing loss last summer and the progress he made this year - again, awesome and answers to prayer.)

Again, thank you so much for all your input, insight, encouragement and mostly for the prayers -- definitely needed.

Heidi

Hi Heidi! Julie did a great job as usual but I wanted to add some input as one who has a child with learning issues. I would agree Bigger would be the place to go. I want to encourage you on two levels. Let me hit the first pone because it is easy, Bigger is enough. I did it with a very bright sixth grader, two fourth graders well on their level and one who is delayed in reading and writing but not in comprehension. It was perfect for all of them. But for my dd with CP it was a great year for her to learn how to narrate and hone in on her writing skills and narration before the demands of Preparing. I want to encourage you to give you and your child that time. Bigger is a wonderful program!

Also just want to encourage you that with any child it is easy to feel that mistakes were made but with one that struggles you are going to feel that even if you did the best job possible. It is very hard not to feel that angst of wanting to "keep up". But sometimes with a child with learning issues keeping up some times really means slowing down and trusting that God has a plan and a pace that is perfect for your child. I have more than once tried so hard to "speed" things up with my dd only to find that we lost more ground than we would have on the "slow and steady path". I have come to a place where I have forced myself and have to remind myself that she is exactly as God has allowed her to be and He has a purpose in all of it. My job is to focus on helping her find that at his speed rather than mine. All the looking back and feelings of guilt are not really the way the Lord works and I have to remember that as well.

HOD has been the absolute best thing for all my kids including my dd with CP. Go with the program that fits your child skill wise and trust (this is the hardest but as I complete my fifth HOD program I am finally learning) that it truly is enough and God will bless it! I have seen it over and over. He uses HOD in a mighty way to their hearts and to help them grow academically. Your child sounds like they are doing very well for the struggles they have. I think you are going to find that for where you are this year is going to be a big year for making some leaps and bounds slowly and steadily.

Praying for your decision as a sister in Christ!

Heidi,

I just wanted to pop-in and encourage you as well in your decision. The ladies have given you excellent advice and much information that is so helpful as you ponder. If you have other thoughts or musings, feel free to share as it can give so much clarity to simply talk or type your thoughts. I know that it is helpful to me to do that very thing!

As far as Rod and Staff goes, if you do go the Bigger Hearts route, I would likely lean in the English 3 direction for your son (if you were wanting to move forward in the grammar department). English 2 would be much of what you've already covered in BJU 2. To do English 3 with Bigger, you would follow the pace of 1 lesson a day, 4 days a week to finish in one year. The lessons are clearly divided for you within the Rod and Staff text, making it open-and-go. Make sure to do 2/3 of each lesson orally and assign only one small portion to be done on paper each day.

Hope that helps!

Blessings,
Carrie

Thanks so much for the heads-up on the R&S placement. That was definitely something I wasn't entirely sure about and it is good to know that he'd be better off moving forward. I went to a conference yesterday and looked over the R&S books for just a minute but only at the Grade 2 books since that was what is scheduled in Bigger - guess I should have lingered a bit longer. I saw soooooo many books that looked great but they weren't the Bigger books so I found myself just glancing and walking on....My biggest concern at this point is working with 3 guides - 2 kids who need hands-on and 1 who is totally independent but I'm still going to be involved just a wee little and then my high maintenance 11th grader who wishes he were still in elementary. I'm going to have to be a time traveler - Rome back to Pilgrims all in a day. Hmmmm.... I do remember though from my experience with Beyond the first time around that I was able to do most of my ds' work quickly, completely and move on to the next child so I'm pretty sure I should be able to keep my wits about me as I work between the 3 guides; if anything it will keep mm mind sharp.

Oh wait - one question....can I use the readalouds from Bigger or Beyond interchangeably as long as they are on the same genre? We didn't read all the ones from Beyond so I could rotate a few and then when the little one uses Bigger I could use some I saved from Bigger or perhaps find a few new ones rather than reading 2 different books - 1 for each child from each program. kwim?

Heidi

Heidi,

I'm thinking that you'll possibly want to start your Beyond child and your Bigger child both at half-speed for a week or two to ease them into the guide and train them in the needed skills. Then, I'd likely bump your Bigger Heart's child up to full-speed first (and keep in mind that he may be a real priority in your mix this year to get the solid teaching year needed in Bigger to keep him moving steadily forward). You honestly could keep your 7 year old in Beyond at half-speed all year (just moving ahead daily with language arts and math). This would make sure you have the needed time to devote to your Bigger Heart's child. You could always bump up to full-speed Beyond later, if you feel your 7 year old is ready for more and you're comfortable with how everyone else is doing. Stretching Beyond out over two years would also ensure that you won't be doing back-to-bak guides every year, which may or may not matter to you. But, I personally like to have a year's worth of space before I return to a guide that I've just completed, just so that it is fresh for me!

With my kiddos, I always look at their needs each year and decide which child really needs the most of me and my time that year. Everyone else still gets time on an incremental scale, but I rotate from year-to-year as to who needs me most. Anyway, I'm sure you find the same thing to be true. Once you've identified who needs you most, make sure to set up your schedule so that those particulars needs are met every day. This becomes your number 1 focus for the year. It's always good for me to have that prioritized list running in my mind, so I devote my precious time where it is most needed.

Just a few thoughts! By the way, you can interchange books between Beyond and Bigger, if you've already read most of what is in one program or the other. In order to better keep track of what you've read aloud for Storytime, you may wish to choose from Beyond as much as possible, and then bump over into Bigger where needed.

Blessings,
Carrie

Heidi,

I'm thinking that you'll possibly want to start your Beyond child and your Bigger child both at half-speed for a week or two to ease them into the guide and train them in the needed skills. Then, I'd likely bump your Bigger Heart's child up to full-speed first (and keep in mind that he may be a real priority in your mix this year to get the solid teaching year needed in Bigger to keep him moving steadily forward). You honestly could keep your 7 year old in Beyond at half-speed all year (just moving ahead daily with language arts and math). This would make sure you have the needed time to devote to your Bigger Heart's child. You could always bump up to full-speed Beyond later, if you feel your 7 year old is ready for more and you're comfortable with how everyone else is doing. Stretching Beyond out over two years would also ensure that you won't be doing back-to-back guides every year, which may or may not matter to you. But, I personally like to have a year's worth of space before I return to a guide that I've just completed, just so that it is fresh for me!

With my kiddos, I always look at their needs each year and decide which child really needs the most of me and my time that year. Everyone else still gets time on an incremental scale, but I rotate from year-to-year as to who needs me most (and for which areas). Anyway, I'm sure you find the same thing to be true. Once you've identified who needs you most, make sure to set up your schedule so that those particulars needs are met every day. This becomes your number 1 focus for the year. It's always good for me to have that prioritized list running in my mind, so I devote my precious time where it is most needed. Otherwise, I find that I am just swayed by the most imminent moment-by-moment demands and not really as focused in my teaching time in the areas where I am needed most.

Just a few thoughts! By the way, you can interchange Storytime books between Beyond and Bigger, if you've already read most of what is in one program or the other. However, the selections for each guide match the listening level better for that guide's age group. So, in order to better keep track of what you've read aloud for Storytime, and to better meet the needs of your 7 year old listener, you may wish to choose from Beyond's Storytime lists as much as possible (and then bump over into Bigger where needed). Or, if you feel the Storytime is more needed for your 5th grader, then you'd instead choose mainly from Bigger's Storytime lists, bumping down into Beyond's where needed.

Blessings,
Carrie