help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

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rainbowacreshs
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 4:50 pm
Location: SC

help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by rainbowacreshs » Sat May 22, 2010 2:40 pm

Hi. I need an opinion (or two, three or four...lol).
For privacy sake I will refer to my friend as Mrs. N.
Mrs. N has two boys 7 and 10. Mrs. N is definitely wanting to order from HOD especially after she has watched my dd work through CTC this year. Mrs N is currently on a restricted activity level due to problems w/ her pregnancy and the doctors want to deliver her at 30 weeks..so please prayer there.
Now to the heart of the matter. To help her and allow her quiet time to rest, my pastor suggested to Mrs. N to allow me to do school with her boys for the remainding of their school year.
I have also worked with these boys since Jan. through the childrens missions class I have taught, therefore I feel like I have been able to gain some sense of what each child's abilities are.
The youngest stands on the threshold emerging reader. The oldest seems to be able to read comfortably at second grade level, possible third, pending on difficulty of book. The oldest does not yet read w/ fluency from one word to the next and seems to struggle when there is a word he is not familar with. Neither has yet to do cursive writing or had experince with dictation.
The oldest when encouraged can do some phonetic sounding out of words for spelling. The youngest depends on memory to get him by.
After looking over the catalog w/ Mrs N and trying to discern where her boys place, we are looking at Beyond or Bigger. Her desire is to be able to teach from one guide mostly for economy purposes. I feel that it would be wise to do just based on knowing that the first few months after baby is born will be hectic and tiring.
I thought Beyond at first would be good because of the childrens needs to strengthen listening, reading and writing skills. However, as I looked at it some more, I am thinking that would be too much of a step back and would not challenge the oldest.
I took a second look at Bigger. I am thinking that this may be a better choice because of the ability to add extenstions. Though at this time I don't think the oldest is ready for those extentsions.
Could they do Bigger, in this way:
order :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
Economy Pkg.
Science Add On
Deluxe Pkg - boy interst
Preparing to Build --both have had minimal experience with grammar
:arrow: for the oldest DITHOR lvl 2/3 w/ Book Projects to Send Home and Book Pack Level 2
:arrow: to save money :arrow: for the youngest utilizing the list of emerging readers mom can hit the library.
AS the oldest's skills improve order the extenstions maybe mid year, or could he do without for the first year and have a gentle introduction to this style of learning?
leaving the bible study optional
She already has a cursive program sitting in the wings, and a has a math program.

would this be a good plan for these two boys?
~Jasmine~
Married to a wonderful hubby since '95
DD Kasey 14 RTR Sept. '11 - June '12
DD Typhoon Tiffy 3yrs old beggining LHTH

Lil Ruth born April 25 2011..and just a pure joy!

dawntx
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:50 pm

Re: help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by dawntx » Sat May 22, 2010 7:55 pm

I did not use extensions this year and I had a 10yo doing Bigger for 4th gr. He worked on the 3R's at his level. Personally, for my ds, the extensions would've been too much. Bigger is definitely meaty enough without the extensions.

Dawn :)
We have used LHFHG<BLHFHG>BHFHG>PHFHG>CTC>RTR>Rev/Rev
14ds-Rev-Rev
11ds-CTC
8dd-Bigger
5dd-LHFHG

my3sons
Posts: 10702
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by my3sons » Sun May 23, 2010 1:34 pm

That is very kind of you to do, and I have just prayed for the Lord to help you in this undertaking. As far as choosing between Beyond and Bigger, I think it also depends on their writing ability. Here are some links that should help you determine which program may be best in that area:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3005
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1516&p=11829

If the oldest still struggles with reading quite a bit, adding in some ETC books at his level may be good, or else doing "The Reading Reflex" with him would be an option. :D I would not do the extensions with the older, but would instead get the Emerging Readers for the younger. The older would not be ready for the extensions, as they have a higher reading level and are meant to be read independently. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

rainbowacreshs
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 4:50 pm
Location: SC

Re: help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by rainbowacreshs » Mon May 24, 2010 9:47 am

Hi Thanks so much Julie the thread links, its has really begun to clarify where I think the boys will be best, regardless of the oldest's age.
Neither of them are strong writers, as the youngest has to dictate to you what he wants to write and the oldest stuggles with forming sentences.
I'm beginning to think that if the boys do beyond, it could prove to be a solid review of what skills he does know and allow for a gentle introduction to grammar. He could probably begin DITHOR at maybe half-speed? For extra practice at reading maybe the oldest could be encouarged to read small portions of the storytime read-alouds out loud?
I think definitely add in ETC once or twice a week?
Looking over Bigger I think the 7 year old would actually struggle with it. Would like some more input on how to maybe beef up Beyond for the 10 year old.
Thanks again!
~Jasmine~
Married to a wonderful hubby since '95
DD Kasey 14 RTR Sept. '11 - June '12
DD Typhoon Tiffy 3yrs old beggining LHTH

Lil Ruth born April 25 2011..and just a pure joy!

my3sons
Posts: 10702
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by my3sons » Mon May 24, 2010 1:15 pm

rainbowacreshs wrote:Hi Thanks so much Julie the thread links, its has really begun to clarify where I think the boys will be best, regardless of the oldest's age.
Neither of them are strong writers, as the youngest has to dictate to you what he wants to write and the oldest stuggles with forming sentences.
I'm beginning to think that if the boys do beyond, it could prove to be a solid review of what skills he does know and allow for a gentle introduction to grammar. He could probably begin DITHOR at maybe half-speed? For extra practice at reading maybe the oldest could be encouarged to read small portions of the storytime read-alouds out loud?
I think definitely add in ETC once or twice a week?
Looking over Bigger I think the 7 year old would actually struggle with it. Would like some more input on how to maybe beef up Beyond for the 10 year old.
Thanks again!
I'm so glad you are getting some clarity about what route would be best to go. :D I think Beyond would be the way to go. Doing ETC just a page every other day or so would be easy to do. You could alternate ETC with the DITHOR plans, and that would give him a nice balance for reading. On the days he did ETC, you could still have him read just a couple of pages of his DITHOR book out loud to you, but only do the DITHOR plans/Student Book on the DITHOR days. Does that make sense? I hope I'm not being confusing with that. I did this with my ds who was young for starting DITHOR. I got him the DITHOR Level 2 Book Pack, and I had him read a few pages to me on one day. Then, the next day I had him read and do the DITHOR Teacher's Guide plans along with the Student Book. I wouldn't have him read the read-alouds out loud as they are going to be tougher for him. This past thread will give you some ideas for beefing up Beyond:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3247&p=24196

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

rainbowacreshs
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 4:50 pm
Location: SC

Re: help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by rainbowacreshs » Tue May 25, 2010 6:36 am

Thanks again Julie.
Yes, definitely see the boys doing Beyond, mostly just as it its. At this time Mrs. N, needs things to be as simplified for her and her boys. I do believe it will work out as a gentle introduction to the HOD's style for both mom and her boys.
This is the plan at this point now...
Beyond:
The Economy Package
Reading Made Easy --for the youngest, mom could work in the Emerger readers at a later date either by purchasing or through library
DITHOR 2/3 using Lvl 2 Books--for the oldest using your suggestions Julie
Basic Package
Deluxe Package-boy interest
Mrs. N can then use the math lessons in Beyond as a fun review while continuing w/ the math program she already has. (will probably test at a later date to see where they would place w/ singapore).
Thanks again Julie :)
~Jasmine~
Married to a wonderful hubby since '95
DD Kasey 14 RTR Sept. '11 - June '12
DD Typhoon Tiffy 3yrs old beggining LHTH

Lil Ruth born April 25 2011..and just a pure joy!

my3sons
Posts: 10702
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by my3sons » Tue May 25, 2010 12:28 pm

Sounds like a great plan, Jasmine! :D I pray the Lord will help you to be able to maintain the balance of your family and helping out your friend as well. What a dear friend you are to do this! :D May God bless you for it.

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

lovedtodeath
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:08 am

Re: help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by lovedtodeath » Tue May 25, 2010 2:01 pm

I completely agree with choosing Beyond, and getting the level of reading that you have chosen. I would make reading a big priority. There are some phonics lessons and some teacher tips for remediating here: http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%2 ... links.html
Carmen, teaching Jake 3 and Emily 8
Third grade coming up:
HOD Bigger, Phonics Road 2, Math Mammoth.
http://www.thephonicspage.org/index.html

rainbowacreshs
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 4:50 pm
Location: SC

Re: help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by rainbowacreshs » Tue May 25, 2010 6:16 pm

Thank you lovedtodeath! That is totally awesome! Today, I asked the oldest to read on his own "The White Stallion", I believe its a 2nd to 3rd grade chapter reader. Then using a DITHOR/and Narration approach I tried to get a feel of what he learned. When asked could you tell me about what you read, he was able to relate a generally correct knowledge. However, when I asked him to read out loud a section, he stumbled through, and words he didn't know he would just insert other words that he thought would fit. I also feel that he was able to accurately piece together the story from the pictures. This gives me the feeling that he is not ready for DITHOR, and needs to definitely be regrounded in phonics. I am thinking perhaps he could do the emerger readers along with his younger brother until he can read smoothly.
So now I am leaning towards having Mrs. N use Beyond for both of them as is, adding in just ETC and Cheerful Cursive for the oldest, saving DITHOR for Bigger.
I am still open to any other suggestions and helps :)

Please keep this family in prayer. I have grown quite fond of Mrs. N and the the boys. I thank God for the privilege to be a servent.
~Jasmine~
Married to a wonderful hubby since '95
DD Kasey 14 RTR Sept. '11 - June '12
DD Typhoon Tiffy 3yrs old beggining LHTH

Lil Ruth born April 25 2011..and just a pure joy!

my3sons
Posts: 10702
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by my3sons » Tue May 25, 2010 6:32 pm

You could start the older ds a bit further into the ERS. Do you think he may feel sad reading the same books as younger brother? Even just starting him 1 book ahead may be worth it, but you will know best here. :D

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

rainbowacreshs
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 4:50 pm
Location: SC

Re: help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by rainbowacreshs » Tue May 25, 2010 6:57 pm

You have a good point Julie. This has been very challenging to nail down exactly where the oldest fits. Do you have any suggestions as to books that would be within HOD's line/philosopy, possibly any that are in the HOD bookshop that would be a step above emerger and one level below DITHOR 2/3?
Still open for more suggestions :)
~Jasmine~
Married to a wonderful hubby since '95
DD Kasey 14 RTR Sept. '11 - June '12
DD Typhoon Tiffy 3yrs old beggining LHTH

Lil Ruth born April 25 2011..and just a pure joy!

my3sons
Posts: 10702
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by my3sons » Tue May 25, 2010 7:01 pm

I would guess the Emerging Readers Set would fit him well, so I wouldn't try to put together something else, but to prevent painful comparing, I think I'd start him in the middle somewhere and make it clear to him he's doing the "harder reading". :D I'd guess "Buffalo Bill..." or "The Prairie School" would be a great place to start. Plus, "Prairie School" has Level 4 on the front. :wink: If he finished out those books well, you could start DITHOR half-speed the last half of the year, and just pick the books that have the easier reading levels to use to finish out the year. HTH! :D

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

rainbowacreshs
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 4:50 pm
Location: SC

Re: help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by rainbowacreshs » Tue May 25, 2010 7:16 pm

Again and again thank you. I do appreciate your thoughts and consideration! I think it is so awesome to be able to use HOD and have rapid response and help when it is most needed. Never in any curriculum I have used before, did I have this kind of help.
HOD is truly a blessing in my life, may it continue to bless others as well. HTH :) :D
~Jasmine~
Married to a wonderful hubby since '95
DD Kasey 14 RTR Sept. '11 - June '12
DD Typhoon Tiffy 3yrs old beggining LHTH

Lil Ruth born April 25 2011..and just a pure joy!

lovedtodeath
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:08 am

Re: help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by lovedtodeath » Tue May 25, 2010 7:54 pm

You may want to look at the information on How To Tutor a Remedial student on the phonics page site.

You could also try some good old fashioned readers that may seem less babyish, since he is an older student working at a lower level. It is highly recommended that you have the child read out loud to you a couple of times a week. These include McGuffey readers and Charles Sanders Readers, all of which are too old to have copyright, so PM me if you want help finding some for free. There are readers that cover 1st-3rd, 3rd-4th, and 2nd-5th grade levels.
Last edited by lovedtodeath on Tue May 25, 2010 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Carmen, teaching Jake 3 and Emily 8
Third grade coming up:
HOD Bigger, Phonics Road 2, Math Mammoth.
http://www.thephonicspage.org/index.html

my3sons
Posts: 10702
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: help w/ placement in beyond or bigger pls

Post by my3sons » Tue May 25, 2010 8:04 pm

Carmen - Just a heads up that the HOD Board Rules state...
This is the only "official" Heart of Dakota" board moderated by us. Since this board is sponsored by Heart of Dakota, we ask that you do not post links to other companies or other boards, promote other boards or groups, reference posts or threads from other boards, or post for the purpose of promoting a product that is not scheduled within the HOD guides.

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

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