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Hi all,

My 12 yo son is a voracious reader. He reads anything and everything he can put his hands on the Bible, classical literature, science and computer manuals, etc, which is why I'm surprised that for the last 3 years when we've done our standardized testing for State requirements his reading level has stayed the same. He tests on a 7th grade level and has done so, every year since 4th grade. When he reads aloud to me he does very nicely, but he does not like decoding. I can't seem to put my hands on anything that will challenge and stretch him. Does anyone have any thoughts?

With Joy!
Florence

My thought is that standardized testing is not always the best measure of reading comprehension. If he's a voracious reader, that's outstanding and to be celebrated (way to go son and mom)! If you want to challenge and stretch him, DITHOR will do that, and you can choose more and more difficult books, as well as up the level of Student Book and plans. You can do it daily, and you can go through all 9 genres each year even. One other surefire way to bring up reading comprehension is listening to audio books several years above the reading level of the child, and having him follow along in the book as he listens. It really sounds like he's doing so well though, so I guess I wouldn't worry about it too much.

In Christ,
Julie

Julie,

Thank you for your feed back. The issue isn't really comprehension as much as it is word-recognition and decoding. And since the scores have to go into the state and he's now at 7th grade. The reading score is making it look as if he is not performing well.

I feel like I've reached the same place with my daughter. I've added Vocabulary from Classic Roots to her routine hoping that a study of Greek & Latin roots will help her start better decoding those tougher words found in higher level reading. I don't know if that is the answer for you and I haven't been using it long enough to know if it will help my daughter reach the next level or not. My daughter is a voracious reader also. I feel like we just need that final shove to push her into adult level literature.

deltagal,

Much of decoding and word recognition comes with slower, more thoughtful reading. Kiddos can be voracious readers, without really stopping to fully decode words or making sure that they are pronouncing the words correctly, or understanding the meanings. This is one area where a reading program comes in handy. It forces the child to slow down and ponder the material for awhile. It requires a different kind of reading from the consumption based reading voracious readers do so well in their free-time.

For a long time, there has been a fairly widely held thinking among educators that those who love to read automatically decode well, have a large vocabulary, and spell well. This is not necessarily true. Some voracious readers are just glossing over the details and fudging the hard words to get to the main point of the story. These kiddos don't like being asked to read aloud and don't enjoy being asked to slow down. But, the standardized tests test exactly the kind of slow thoughtful reading kiddos are asked to do through a reading program. This is because each state is actually required to spend at least 50 to 60 min. a day in reading instruction in the public schools. So, reading comprehension, contextual clues, decoding, and vocabulary words dominate the standardized testing sphere as a measure of this type of reading.

Drawn into the Heart of Reading is written for this purpose. It becomes more and more important to systematically do this type of reading as kiddos get closer and closer to high school and closer to the higher level of reading and application that will be required at that stage of learning.

Often when I'm asked about what kiddos should do in preparation for high school, I'll tell moms that even more important than the history cycle is the literature instruction, the writing instruction, and the math preparation. These areas will dictate how well a child can do in many areas of high school study. So, if you haven't done a formal reading program yet, I would highly recommend starting there. It will take your child's reading to the next level and take your discussion and interactions about what your child reads to a new level as well. While my kiddos are voracious readers too, we haven't used a formal vocabulary program, but we do use Drawn into the Heart of Reading. My own kiddos test in the 99th percentile in the areas of vocabulary, decoding, and comprehension, and whle I don´t put a lot of stock in testing it is one area to take a look at.

As you ponder this topic, it may help to think that we would never consider not teaching math or science, yet as parents we often completely forego any reading instruction after kiddos learn to read. You are right that there is so much more to reading than the skill of reading aloud or of basic comprehension. I would urge you to look at DITHR again, or consider something else for reading instruction. Getting kiddos to think deeply about what they read, read slowly and thoughtfully, and think about what they read with moral discernment is truly the heart of reading.

Blessings,
Carrie

One other thought I'd had too is that listening to harder books on tape while requiring the child to follow along with the book is another way to increase kiddos vocabulary and word recognition. They hear how to correctly pronounce difficult words and see the word on the printed page, while using contextual clues to figure out what the word means. This method also forces kiddos to slow down and read every word and is an excellent replacement for a full-blown vocabulary program. If you combined this with DITHR 3 times weekly, this would take care of your reading needs in the standardized testing area. It will take a year for both to have a full effect though.

Just another thought as you ponder.

Blessings,
Carrie

"As you ponder this topic, it may help to think that we would never consider not teaching math or science, yet as parents we often completely forego any reading instruction after kiddos learn to read. You are right that there is so much more to reading than the skill of reading aloud or of basic comprehension. I would urge you to look at DITHR again, or consider something else for reading instruction. Getting kiddos to think deeply about what they read, read slowly and thoughtfully, and think about what they read with moral discernment is truly the heart of reading."

HI Carrie,

Thanks for your response. We are activtely using DITHR 6/7/8 and have been for quite some time. And I do reading instruction with him using the highest level of books that are available through HOD, but he does fine. In fact, we purchased one of the CTC basic packages for him to use with DITHR and for free reading. We're on our second to last book. He has no issues and reads aloud beautifully and loves to read aloud. He comprehends superbly. He does great with his DITHR assignments and enjoys them. Am I missing something here?

Oh, another point is he reads well, because he gets the contextual clues. But the reason he doesn't assess well is because he simply has to read a word list that increases in difficulty and there are no contextual clues.

Florence,

I think I am confused about which area of testing in which your concern lies. Do you happen to know the name of the subsections of the test where you aren´t seeing the gains you would like to see? Also, do you happen to know the name of the test your son is taking and could you give a brief description of what he is being asked to do on the subsections that you`re thinking about?

That would help so much, so we can ponder some other possible solutions. I know testing isn`t the end all, but it can help to know where the areas of weakness are and do some simple fine tuning.

Blessings,
Carrie

Hi Carrie,

He takes the WRAT, wide range achievement test. More information here http://www.cps.nova.edu/~cpphelp/WRAT-3.html.

It only tests math, reading - word recognition, decoding out of context and spelling.

With Joy!
Florence

I was reading up on the WRAT-3, and these precautions were noted...

http://www.minddisorders.com/Py-Z/Wide- ... -Test.html
To obtain a more indepth result of an examinee's abilities, a more comprehensive achievement test must be administered. For example, the WRAT-3 has no assessment of fundamental skills such as reading comprehension, writing abilities, and applying mathematical concepts to real-life situations.

http://www.psychpage.com/learning/libra ... wrat3.html
Reliability and Validity Data: Internal consistencies are very high (would you expect otherwise?). Median alternate forms reliability are above .89, and test-retest reliability is .91 or better. The samples, however, are smaller. Blue and Tan standard error of measurement for Reading and Spelling is 5, Arithmetic is 6. Thus, you are 68% confident that an obtained Arithmetic score is within +6 points, and 95% confident that it is within + 12 points.

As to validity, 1) raw scores increase with age, 2) Reading and Spelling are highly correlated, Arithmetic correlates poorly with the other two. Reading and Spelling correlate .65 to .72 with WISC III Verbal IQs. Correlations with Vocabulary are .64. Arithmetic correlates .65 to .74 with WISC III FSIQ, VIQ, and PIQ. Correlation with Arithmetic is only .66 with WISC III. WAIS III correlations are weaker. The numbers aren't so great, but then, it is unclear whether they should be great… Correlations to other achievement tests are in the .50s to .70s (California Achievement Test and Stanford Achievement Test) and .60s to .80s (California Test of Basic Skills).

Discriminate function analysis for LD, EMH, gifted, and normal children has a small sample, but passable classifications (gifted=85%, LD=72%, and EMH=85%) for all but normal children (56% of 111 children classified… just better than flipping a quarter).

Conclusions: Thus… it's not the best test out there, but for 15 to 30 minutes of your time, it's OK.

I think it's helpful to look at this and consider additional testing possibly, but that's just a thought.

In Christ,
Julie

Florence,

Am I right in understanding that the WRAT does not test reading comprehension but only tests decoding of words and vocabulary? If so, then how well a child does overall in the area of spelling will affect the child's word decoding skills (along with phonics understanding too) and also a child's vocabulary scores (as understanding what the actual word is will be of paramount importance).

Is your child a good speller? If not, I'd lean toward doing dictation three times a week, if you haven't already, but also possibly consider a spelling supplement of some kind to target that area. Or, if your child is a good speller, then I would instead look toward getting a test practice booklet and only working on the decoding and vocabulary sections of the test practice. Test practice booklets can be so overwhelming, so make sure you don't bog down in practicing all the included areas. However, often in tests like these, practicing in the format in which the test is actually given can make a big difference. Go over the answers with your child as he responds using it as an immediate feedback and teaching tool, rather than waiting to correct the practice test at the end. Teach your child to know how to reason through it to get the best answer. You may also wish to have your child read the words out loud to you during the practice test, so you can also see how he does with pronunciation and decoding words out of context. Then, you can see if he has phonics issues as well.

Other than that, you can also explore a vocabulary program, but my personal favorite for increasing overall vocabulary is still the suggestion I shared about reading along with difficult books on CD to increase vocabulary and comprehension of tough words. We do cover vocabulary weekly in DITHR 6/7/8, but one additional idea is to have your kiddo read with an index card tucked into his book and be required on the card to list 3-5 tough words with page numbers from his reading each day. Then, have him jot down a guess of what the word means next to the page number, look the word up in the dictionary, and jot down the real meaning last. This aids in expanding vocabulary as well.

Hopet there's something in here that may be of help!

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie, Julie, Daisy,

All good thoughts...thank you.

Carrie, you'll not find it surprising when I tell you my son is a very weak speller. We've been doing dictation 3 - 4 times a week for the last year. But I think your idea of supplementing is a good one. In fact, I was just discussing with him recently that I felt we needed to go in that direction. The tester last year suggested - as you did - that I pick up a practice booklet and work on the decoding and vocabulary sections. Perhaps, we'll do some supplementing interspersed with some "practice" sessions. Are there any practice booklets you recommend?

I also like the audio book idea. Does anyone have some audio books at a beyond 7th grade level to recommend that could stretch his vocabulary?

Finally, Julie thank you for the comments and links on the WRAT. Very good feedback. Could you or anyone else recommend some assessment tests that are considered "worthwhile."

Thank you all again.

I've found the Iowa Basic Skills test to be well-rounded and accurate. Here is a link to it on BJU's Website - a sample can be viewed there:
http://www.bjupress.com/testing/iowa.php

I've given the Stanford, Olsat, and MAT7's before and much prefer the Iowa Basic Skills to these. It tests reading comprehension and listening, as well as the other LA areas we've discussed (as well as math, social studies, and science). HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

Florence,

As far as test prep. books go, you may wish to check with your tester to see which practice book correlate well with the WRAT. If there is not a specific book that is recommended, then you may wish to look at your local Barnes and Noble or Borders to see what they have on hand. Since you are somewhat familiar with the test, choose one that is more closely aligned with the same format as the WRAT.

Next, as far as standardized tests go, here is a link to a good discussion on them. Make sure to follow the links within the thread to view more info. on the CAT. Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2632

As far as audio books go, I'll list some below that my own oldest son has enjoyed. However, I feel the need to point out that my oldest son is not a sensitive reader, loves action and adventure, is not overly bothered by blood and battles, and has a strong sense of justice. He is a terrific screener as he reads, and often shares with me anything he encounters within his readings that he feels would not fit our family's values. We have found there is much to be learned from less than perfect books, as we realize there is only one perfect book and that is the Bible.

The list below is by no means an endorsement of these particular titles by Heart of Dakota but rather is a list that fit my oldest son well and required me to be willing to overlook some parts of the books that we wished had been omitted. Whether or not we will eventually choose some of these titles for inclusion in HOD future guides remains to be seen, as we'd need a much closer look at them for that purpose. You'll want to screen them yourself to see what is appropriate for your son, according to your family's goals.
Rifles for Watie
Treasure Island
Kidnapped
The Jungle Book
Captains Courageous
A Christmas Carol
Call of the Wild
White Fang
Johnny Tremain (easier but good)
Carry on Mr. Bowditch (easier but good)
The Merry Adventures of Robin Hood
The Winged Watchman
Around the World in Eighty Days
Men of Iron
The Legend of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table (much magic)
The Hobbit (wizards/magic)
Where the Red Fern Grows
My Side of the Mountain
Summer of the Monkeys (easier but good)
Anything by G.A. Henty

That should get you started!

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie and Julie,

Many thanks to you both. This thread has been quite helpful. I'm going to put all this information to good use and I'll let you know how our next round of testing goes in the spring!