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If you were going to be starting CTC having not done HOD before, how would you prepare?

My ds placed on the line for Preparing and CTC, but more on the CTC side. We're familiar with CM style lessons. We've done narration, copywork, dictation, etc. Ds is not strong in narration skills, and although we do some written narration, I'm not certain how to actually "train" him in this skill. This is the only thing keeping him from being completely on the CTC side of the placement chart. Between now and the time we start CTC (which could be a little while), how should I go about building up his skills in narration-- both oral and written? He has excellent comprehension, especially in silent reading, and can recall details quite easily. It's the molding of the info into a logical, coherent retelling of the story without making it longer than the reading actually is-- or sometimes so short you don't have a clue what he is narrating from. We can't find that happy medium.
With written narrations, they are quite short-- I assume b/c he has to write. It's also quite plain and not all that informative...he may choose one character to write a couple sentences about but not really hit the high points and the story. Will CTC start from the beginning of training to do written narration or will it assume the child already has a good grasp of this skill? Are there still oral narrations and what guidance is provided for this skill? Is there a step-by-step I should be following now to assure he's ready?

Also, I see that there are weekly creative writing lessons in Preparing, which we will miss. What sort of creative writing lessons should I do with him now? We have been using another LA program, but I feel like we will begin our transition to R&S sooner than later and drop the other. I don't feel comfortable jumping into it at level 5 having never used the program before. Are the writing lessons from R&S? From another program? If it's just built in, can you suggest an inexpensive program to use to prepare for CTC or is CTC foundational enough in it's writing lessons that I don't need to do anything now?

Sorry so many questions.

I don't have much help to offer, but CtC uses Writing With the Best, if you scroll down on the CtC page, at the bottom I think there is a link to a sample.
My son placed into all of CtC, but I ended up putting him in Bigger! (as of 2 days ago). I looked at the CtC manual, and it is tough! In a good way, but I felt it was pushing him, and that he would do a better job and enjoy it more if I held off. Just a lot more writing, and he can write well, but another year will be better.
I ended up going with Bigger because I wanted my DD to join in. I am only on day 2, but there is PLENTY here (with the extensions) to keep him working hard. This way he can excel at what he is doing, instead of feeling frustrated (and me feeling frustrated) with it being too challenging. I still feel he is challenged enough so far with Bigger, and when we add in DITHR, we'll be full. I am always so inclined to go into higher levels, it is the WTM classical educator in me! But, really, I am surprised at all that is in here, it is rich and full.
I would vote for Preparing for your situation!

I considered doing Preparing first, but CTC has more independence (which my ds needs and wants) therefore less teaching time (which mom needs and wants!), doesn't contain any american history (we have about done ourselves out on American history), and considering ds is VERY interest and challenge driven, I needed ancients to cover his interests and the challenge of CTC to hold that interest.

Also, the levels of R&S and Singapore we will be using are planned out in the plans for CTC and not for Preparing, as well as the level of dictation we'll need I believe is not in Preparing. Since he'll be doing much independently, I need the levels we are using to be what is right there on the page. He also WANTS to start doing writing lessons and is doing excellent work on his first "essay" that I am currently walking him through with Emma Serl's language lessons book that we are using right now (and won't be using anymore starting very soon as we begin our transition to R&S). It's great writing lessons in her books, but not enough guidance for me to teach from.

I'm sure there is enough in Preparing, but CTC is what really strikes his fancy and lessens my load as I care for my other 3 little ones-- including one 1st grader that so needs mom's focus to teach math and phonics and a 4yr old that thinks he's "ready" for "school"...then a 1yo. I am considering though, keeping it at half pace for a bit.

So, I have entertained the same thoughts as well and see the pros and cons of each...I just don't think it will fit this particular ds or me right now-- we're still at least a few months from starting and I just want to fine tune those skills to make sure we're more than ready!

I have only started CTC today (our first time using HOD); in fact, we only did the left side so far. So please take this with a grain of salt! I am doing CTC rather than Preparing with my 11yo daughter for some of the same reasons as you are--the dictation levels, the R & S levels.

I just wanted to encourage you that we are starting at the very beginning with dictation using CTC. My daughter has "narrated" to me in the past, but I had nothing to guide me, and I often "corrected" her or asked questions to get out other things that I wanted her to include. So we are essentially learning how to narrate. And I wanted to say that the narration tips in the back of the CTC book are very good, and I am sure that with the help of the tips and the wonderful advice on this board, my daughter will learn to narrate well this year even without prior experience.

I have used the R & S English with older children, but not with this particular daughter. In fact, she doesn't have a strong base in English. Yet, once again, knowing the R & S, I am sure that she will do fine with the Gr. 5 book even without the strong base in English going into this year. R & S is very step-by-step, and the Gr. 5 book repeats a lot that the Gr. 4 book does only in a more mature way. So I think that if you work with your son orally first with the R & S, as is suggested by Carrie in the manual, he should be fine. Carrie has put a lot of thought into what books to use for each subject.

From what I understand with the writing, the students do both the writing lessons as they come up in R & S, as well as Write with the Best. (Someone please correct me if I am wrong!) The R & S writing is self-explanatory, and shouldn't need any preparation. I don't have any experience with Write with the Best, since we are presently finishing another program, so I can't help you there.

I just want to encourage you that Carrie has carefully thought out HOD and the helps that she has included are far superior to any other program I have looked at (and I have looked at the vast majority of programs!). For me, the best preparation has been to simply jump in and start and then watch everything fall into place.

I hope something that I have said is a help and an encouragement to you.

Thank you so much for the encouragement...I already feel more at ease! I have looked at Write With The Best that is used with CTC and I love it! I'm sure ds will too.

Is there a program that is used in Preparing as well or is writing just from R&S or of Carrie's own creation?? I'd like to do a little more writing instruction to get us both used to it prior to starting. I have looked for some simple, even somewhat independent, writing program to do casually, but I can't seem to find anything. I guess we'll be okay even with NO writing experience beyond what we cover in R&S between now and then.

We'll start either "second semester" this year, or "first semester" next school year...I'm saving up and for now, just enjoying my youngsters until we jump into this more formal schooling with the oldest. Can't believe they grow up so fast!

hsmom4 wrote:Thank you so much for the encouragement...I already feel more at ease! I have looked at Write With The Best that is used with CTC and I love it! I'm sure ds will too.

Is there a program that is used in Preparing as well or is writing just from R&S or of Carrie's own creation?? I'd like to do a little more writing instruction to get us both used to it prior to starting. I have looked for some simple, even somewhat independent, writing program to do casually, but I can't seem to find anything. I guess we'll be okay even with NO writing experience beyond what we cover in R&S between now and then.

We'll start either "second semester" this year, or "first semester" next school year...I'm saving up and for now, just enjoying my youngsters until we jump into this more formal schooling with the oldest. Can't believe they grow up so fast!

Well, both PHFHG and CTC are a pure delight, so that's a good thing! We are using CTC now, and I am wondering how old your ds is? I think if he is not in the upper age range of HOD's target ages (which are ages 9-11) that it would be tough to jump into CTC having not done any of the previous HOD guides. CTC does assume dc can orally narrate well, though it does give guidance in the Appendix. It also assumes dc can do written narrations quite well - again, it does give guidance in the Appendix that is helpful - however, this is not the same as getting the guidance provided in the daily lesson plans of the PHFHG guide. I am concerned that if your reason for choosing CTC is hoping ds will be able to be more independent that he actually may be less independent than he would be in PHFHG. There is a good deal of writing required in CTC, dc need to follow sequential directions independently within boxes of plans, and it is assuming dc have pretty strong CM LA skills in place. In PHFHG, you teach the foundation for these skills, which does take time, but then the assignments are shorter. If CTC, it's assuming you don't need to teach the foundation for these skills, so you have your teaching time other places. If you have to do both in CTC - go back and teach the foundation for these skills - and also do the teaching time planned other places in the guide, this could equal a longer day for you in the long run, even though CTC is designed to be more independent. So, I think it would be very helpful to print out both the PHFHG and the CTC first week's of plans and lay them side by side. Pay special attention to the "I" boxes which are meant to be done independently by the child, and see if you think your ds can easily read and follow the directions, and can truly do the assignments independently. If you think he can, than CTC is probably a wonderful fit and a terrific choice! If you find yourself thinking he'd really need a lot of you yet on the "I" boxes (and even on the "S" semi-independent boxes), than I'd go with PHFHG. HTH! If you do decide to go with CTC and want a writing program to prepare for CTC, Igniting Your Writing Volume 1 would work well.

In Christ,
Julie

my3sons- ds will be about 9.5/10 at the beginning of CTC (if we go that route).

All the skills EXCEPT strong narration are there-- that's the ONLY thing keeping him from fully fitting into CTC. He can narrate...just not as strong in this area as I feel he should be. I am working on it with him and seeing improvement, but I think the problem lies with me...I have horrible comprehension and can't model good narrations and I have nothing to follow-- no guidelines on what to expect. So, perhaps he is actually doing well and I just don't realize it???

He prefers written narration and does better with this than oral most of the time. I have some time to work on this starting now...plenty of time before we actually would start CTC...I just can't afford to get Preparing just for the narration guidance...we'll be fully ready for CTC otherwise by the time I can purchase it....IF I can work on those narration skills!

I had ds "follow the plans" in the guide for CTC by demonstrating, explaining, and/or telling me what he would do to accomplish the assignment (supplies, which books, repeat the assignment in his own words, etc.) He did very well, so I do believe he is ready for that part.

If I can figure out how to build the narration skills and find a used copy of the writing program you mentioned, I know we'd have our perfect fit.

hsmom4 wrote:my3sons- ds will be about 9.5/10 at the beginning of CTC (if we go that route).

All the skills EXCEPT strong narration are there-- that's the ONLY thing keeping him from fully fitting into CTC. He can narrate...just not as strong in this area as I feel he should be. I am working on it with him and seeing improvement, but I think the problem lies with me...I have horrible comprehension and can't model good narrations and I have nothing to follow-- no guidelines on what to expect. So, perhaps he is actually doing well and I just don't realize it???

He prefers written narration and does better with this than oral most of the time. I have some time to work on this starting now...plenty of time before we actually would start CTC...I just can't afford to get Preparing just for the narration guidance...we'll be fully ready for CTC otherwise by the time I can purchase it....IF I can work on those narration skills!

I had ds "follow the plans" in the guide for CTC by demonstrating, explaining, and/or telling me what he would do to accomplish the assignment (supplies, which books, repeat the assignment in his own words, etc.) He did very well, so I do believe he is ready for that part.

If I can figure out how to build the narration skills and find a used copy of the writing program you mentioned, I know we'd have our perfect fit.

Oh well, that makes me feel so much better - if you had him check out the directions he'd need to be following and the things he'd be doing and it went smoothly - that speaks volumes. No worries then - that's great! If narrating is the only thing to work on, you can use the PHFHG sample of the first week online to get a good feel for how to guide that. Here's the link, and you can just scroll down to Unit 1 Day 4, Reading about History (left side) to read through the first lesson.
http://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/PHFHG-sample-week.pdf

The lessons follow this pattern of guided oral questions on a section of the reading for a good portion of the PHFHG guide, but while the first lessons have them dictate their sentences to you, the latter lessons have them doing the writing on their own. They are to limit their sentences to around 5, and you'll find the same Written Narration Tips in the Appendix of CTC that are in PHFHG. HTH, and here's a link to Igniting Your Writing so you can check that out :
http://www.heartofdakota.com/drawn-into ... ations.php

In Christ,
Julie

Thanks Julie. I'll use that sample to help me out. I'm feeling pretty good about placement now. With narration being all that's holding us back, I'll be glad to work on that and allow ds to follow his interests, as well as be able to follow the guide! He'll love working from "the teacher's book". I'm actually starting to print out his plans and label things as I, S, or T to give him practice. I'm pleased so far and I'm getting a break! The plans have been rather loose, but I'm trying to get more specific...we actually have many of the books from BL/BHFHG and have read, recently borrowed, or own many from DITHOR 2-5, read-aloud packages, and a couple from Preparing. So, I'm really looking forward to CTC b/c those books have been great!

As for the writing, I've looked over the program you linked me to and I like that. Looks great.
Have you seen Imitation in Writing as well? It seems like maybe that would help ds with his writing and also with summarizing/retelling (narration!!) at the same time (in addition to our narration practice from other subjects of course.) Any opinion on that? I'm looking for both used and am driven by cost as well, but if it is completely not the kind of writing or instruction I should be using to prepare, please let me know!

hsmom4 wrote: Have you seen Imitation in Writing as well? It seems like maybe that would help ds with his writing and also with summarizing/retelling (narration!!) at the same time (in addition to our narration practice from other subjects of course.) Any opinion on that? I'm looking for both used and am driven by cost as well, but if it is completely not the kind of writing or instruction I should be using to prepare, please let me know!

First, I'm so happy to hear your plan coming together so nicely - I love these moments on the board; it's neat to hear about them and be a part of celebrating it with you. I have not seen Imitation in Writing - sorry I can't be of more help there. Here is a link to Write with the Best's description, which also has another link within it that shows you samples of it:
http://www.heartofdakota.com/hearts-for ... e-the-best
Maybe that can help you compare the two and see what will prepare ds for Write with the Best? Igniting Your Writing is a great program otherwise too.

In Christ,
Julie