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Dd is having trouble getting everything done in a day. I need to adjust something, but I'm not sure which would be best.

She is on the young age of Preparing (8.5), but it's not that she can't handle the work. I think she's just so distracted, but I feel like my hands are tied. Here's our schedule: In the morning, I do LHFHG with my younger boys until about 10, while dd does Preparing's independent work. Then the rest of the day, I bounce between keeping the boys occupied but quiet enough so as not to wake their baby sister or distract their older sister, and working with dd. We set our goal to finish by 3, but most days, it's more like 5.

It's not that it's just taking her so long to do the work, but there are SO MANY interruptions with the other kids and she is VERY distractible! I don't answer the phone, or anything else that would eat up my time during the school day. But, dd and I are both getting weary of school ALL DAY. We rarely even get to DITHOR.

So, here's my question: Would it be more important to include DITHOR and go at half-speed, or should I keep going with Preparing at nearly full-speed and either cut out DITHOR for awhile or slow it way down? My concern with slowing it down is that it will break up the flow of the book too much. I feel like we are getting lots of good books read, but I am the one reading them out loud. She isn't reading anything herself (for school, at least, she is an avid reader) except the Independent History Study. So I'm worried about dropping it all together. But I don't want to go as slow as half-speed, either. I feel like part of the reason she isn't finishing on time is out of her control, but part of it is also that she needs to be more diligent (our character quality in DITHOR--ha!) during the times she's not distracted.

(Oh, and I can't use the 5th day to make up work, because we have a full day out of the house that day.)

Any suggestions?

We are struggling with the same thing and have not even added in DITHOR or LHFHG for my younger dd and we start at 8:00 and are not done until 3. I can easily see once we add DITHOR and the readings get longer for History that we will be schooling until much later as well. I"m curious to see your replies...

mariaw wrote:Dd is having trouble getting everything done in a day. I need to adjust something, but I'm not sure which would be best.

She is on the young age of Preparing (8.5), but it's not that she can't handle the work. I think she's just so distracted, but I feel like my hands are tied. Here's our schedule: In the morning, I do LHFHG with my younger boys until about 10, while dd does Preparing's independent work. Then the rest of the day, I bounce between keeping the boys occupied but quiet enough so as not to wake their baby sister or distract their older sister, and working with dd. We set our goal to finish by 3, but most days, it's more like 5.

It's not that it's just taking her so long to do the work, but there are SO MANY interruptions with the other kids and she is VERY distractible! I don't answer the phone, or anything else that would eat up my time during the school day. But, dd and I are both getting weary of school ALL DAY. We rarely even get to DITHOR.

So, here's my question: Would it be more important to include DITHOR and go at half-speed, or should I keep going with Preparing at nearly full-speed and either cut out DITHOR for awhile or slow it way down? My concern with slowing it down is that it will break up the flow of the book too much. I feel like we are getting lots of good books read, but I am the one reading them out loud. She isn't reading anything herself (for school, at least, she is an avid reader) except the Independent History Study. So I'm worried about dropping it all together. But I don't want to go as slow as half-speed, either. I feel like part of the reason she isn't finishing on time is out of her control, but part of it is also that she needs to be more diligent (our character quality in DITHOR--ha!) during the times she's not distracted.

(Oh, and I can't use the 5th day to make up work, because we have a full day out of the house that day.)

Any suggestions?

I've found that when my day drags on, it's often not the whole day that's the problem. Usually it's a few parts of the day that are going way tooooo long, probably because of a specific problem or two that really can be fixed with a little creativity. You mentioned some things I've had to deal with in the past (and continue to have to consider and plan for now ).
#1: noise level
We have 3 boys that are ALL BOY, and that can make for one noisy place. Each year, I've had to look at the setup in our house and make the best use of space to help control the noise level. Last year, we set up a playroom in the basement. That has been a huge help. This year, I put a T.V./VCR/DVD in the top of our entryway closet and got a $10 gate for that door so my toddler has a place away from all of us to be safe and watch a 45 minute video. This gives me 45 minutes of relatively noise free, interruption free time. We put a desk upstairs in my ds's room, and may utilize that as a place for him to do quiet independent work this year if it gets too loud. Last year, my oldest loved to get a pillow and a blanket to lay on the bathroom floor to read his independent reading (this was NOT my idea, but I told him to find a quiet place he would enjoy reading his book in, and that was his idea ). So, a question that may help you is, "What can you do to use all of your house to be able to homeschool with as little noise as possible?"
#2: Toddler/baby and dc not doing school with you:
These little ones really need other things planned, so they don't constantly interrupt. There are some great threads on this already that I'll link you to:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=198&p=33557
So, a question for you to ponder is, "What can the dc NOT doing school with you do while you are doing school, so they don't interrupt you and aren't right near you making noise?"
#3: Diligence in work:
This is something we all deal with from time to time with our dc. The biggest thing that has helped me is the timer. I know everyone is not a fan of the timer, but it has become an incredible tool for us. Dc do not understand the passage of time - when we began homeschooling, I'd tell them this box should take you about 20 minutes. This wasn't helpful, because even though they could tell time, they didn't understand what 20 minutes "felt like". They went over. Repeatedly. Which caused the day to be longer. With some dc, they'll go over on everything because they are naturally dawdlers. This is a tough habit to change, but the timer makes it possible. Other dc just dawdle with a few things, like they like to be creative and take long on the projects. Others aren't diligent with writing activities, probably because they need to improve their writing. Here is a link to PHFHG and how long each thing should take:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4244&p=31219#p31219
I'd set the timer for the amount of time a thing should take, and see which boxes dd is going over on. I'd also tell her this is to let her know about how long each thing should take, and that this is a goal to work toward. So, a question for you to contemplate is, "What boxes are taking too long, and why are they taking too much time?"

I wouldn't stop DITHOR as it is her reading instruction and is very important, however, I'd do it just the 3 days a week rather than 4 days a week, and I'd not draw it out. Schedule small amounts of reading each day, and approach it in a no frills brisk way. DITHOR should not take long to do. If you need to write dd's answers for her in her Student Book for awhile, that's fine. Or, write them on a markerboard and haver her copy them. The answers need not be long or written in complete sentences at this point. For discussion questions, stay on track and let the answers be short. For kickoffs and projects, pick the shortest and simplest ones. All of this should keep time requirements of DITHOR to a minimum.

One last question I've had to consider is, "What am I doing that is drawing out the day?" For me, the answer is I'm a perfectionist, and I was expecting very long answers to questions, adding more to the discussions than was intended in the guide, and I was expecting too much from my dc for their written work and projects. Once I realized this and down-sized my expectations to be appropriate for their abilities and age levels, they were able to finish things on time.

I've really found reflecting on questions like these has helped me see where I can make changes to help my day go well and finish on time. HOD is not designed to take all day, and if it is, we need to make some changes so it doesn't. I have never had to drop things from the guide or change the plans in any way - instead, making the changes I've described (and for me I also had to stop dealing with media - phones, radio, computer - during the day) has helped me always be able to get my day down to the times suggested in the HOD guides. I know it can do the same for you! Here's to investigating what's going on in our homes, reflecting on some questions that can help make our days be the best they can be, and creating a time conscious enjoyable homeschooling experience for us and our dc!

In Christ,
Julie

Thanks, Julie, for your response.

I do have things planned for those not doing school, but they just rarely go as planned. Mostly, it's issues of discipline with the 4 and 6yo boys (fighting, mostly), and issues of not napping with the baby due to teething, cold, etc. Life, basically! We are working very hard with the boys right now on this issue, so hopefully we will see fruit from it soon! It's just that now, it's causing quite a bit of disruption so that I can give immediate consequences to the boys.

In terms of having a "dawdling personality," that would describe dd. The chart of times each box should take really helps. I don't have a problem setting the timer, but what happens when things aren't done on time? That's where I've had trouble. Are there consequences? Or is it just a time limit where we stop and pick it back up the next day? I feel that there should be some form of consequence when the issue is dawdling. But I haven't figured out what that is, yet. If I say, "School is over at 3 and anything you didn't finish you have to do while everyone else is having fun," then that is really the same as just schooling all day (which I'm trying to avoid). Not to mention that I usually have to help her anyway, so I can't supervise the youngers during this time in something fun, which defeats the whole purpose of the consequence. Am I making sense?

But sometimes, when it runs long, and it's out of dd's control, maybe I just need to stop with the timer and pick back up the next day (and be ok with that ).

Maria,

The ladies are doing a great job of talking through some options with you. Since your daughter is on the very youngest age range of Preparing Hearts, and I'm thinking that you're new to HOD, it is normal to expect there to be a period of transition for at least a month or two before you'll begin aligning more with the time allotments for Preparing Hearts. Then, once you hit your stride, the time will really start falling off of your schedule! Be encouraged that spending time teaching and training your daughter now will pay off in a huge way next year with CTC.

Another thing to consider with multiple kiddos is whether it is realistic to plan to be done by lunch or shortly thereafter. With four busy boys in my family, I've had to realize that no matter how I schedule the baby, toddler, or young ones, it isn't reasonable to expect them not interrupt or to be without me for long periods of time. So, we make sure to schedule a long recess break, a long lunch, and some time for me with each of them. This does make our school day go on longer, but the kiddos feel like they've had free time, I feel like I've had time to do household tasks, return phone calls, and rock the babby or kiss the owies, and we're all happier. So, this is something to consider. Here's a link to my Preparing Hearts/LHFHG/piloting CTC combo. from last year (just scroll down to it below my Bigger Hearts/LHFHG post): viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2093

Next, I'll link you to some threads that will help you think through some ways to effectively use a timer.
Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4882
Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4639
Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3669 (if time is limited read just my response on this one)

Blessings,
Carrie

Maria,

One other thought I had is that since your daughter is an avid reader, perhaps you could hand over the history readings to her and also encourage her to start reading directions right from the guide. We had our boys do as much of their own reading as possible, as advocated by CM that a child of age 9 who can read his/her readings should!

I had my son read ahead in each box in the guide and get out any needed supplies and be ready for me when I sat down with him. Here's a few tips I gave for making Bigger more independent (many of the same ideas will work for Preparing Hearts):
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4632&p=34419

Blessings,
Carrie

Dear Maria,

Thank you for posting your struggle as it has been ours as well. My son just turned 8 in July and we are having trouble with getting it all done. However, we both LOVE this program (until he gets bogged down)! So this it what we've done - just to share - !

1. I organized his school into workboxes. I did this just before week 3 of Preparing and it has helped tremendously for directing him onto the next task quickly without too much dawdling & getting lost in the gathering of his materials! He also has a "tool box" that he keeps with him (pencils, markers, colored pencils, glue stick, scissors).
2. Preparing has a lot of writing. This is new to him and a struggle. So, I cut some of it out. For example, the vocabulary. I make him do 2 or 3 cards and then the rest he just looks up in the dictionary and reads allowed to me. I also allow him to orally tell me a sentence with the words in it vs. written. We keep Poetry & Bible oral for him for now as well.
3. He likes to read and has read his DITHR books, but we haven't even looked at the workbook since our intro. day. For now for him it's been shelved.
4. We do use our 1/2 of our 5th day to "catch up" - mostly on the writing in Science or Independent History.

I too have older and younger children clambering around me all day. That's where I have taken the liberty to streamline things to fit the dynamic of my family. My older 2 are doing Preparing with extensions and are keeping up just fine, so I think we will be able to add things back into this schedule as we find ourselves able.

I do NOT find Preparing to be above his "thinking" in any way so I feel that this is still the best Program for him.

I don't know if that helps, but it helps me that you shared. It will be interesting to talk to you again in a couple of weeks!

Thanks everyone. That gives me a lot to think about. We took a "fall break" this week since it's the first time here on the Gulf Coast that we've been able to spend more than a few minutes outside!! And we had lots of check-ups and dentists appointments that broke up our days this week. We started school in the middle of July so that we could do this, and it was a well-needed break for me, mentally, as well.

This gives me a lot to think on. I haven't had a chance to read all the threads mentioned yet, but I'll make some time this weekend to really dig into this. We did great in the summer when we could spread the work out over 5 days, but now that our co-op has started, we lost that 5th day. So I've become the task-master to get it all done, and I think dd slows down in reaction to my "hurry it up" attitude. Maybe I just need to stretch it out more. And it would help tremendously if dd can read some of the history reading to ME while I prepare lunch or fold laundry or whatever.

Maria,

If you have other questions after you get a moment to go through some of the wonderful suggestions in this thread, I'd love to hear back from you with any further thoughts you may have. I know we can figure out a way to get your sweetie in the groove that will best meet your family goals.

Blessings,
Carrie

Well, I set out for today to be different, and it wasn't. But at least, I paid attention to where the problems are.

First, we don't do the same order of boxes each day. I think that would probably really help. Usually, I give dd her Preparing independent work assignments, then send her off to her room while I teach LHFHG to the boys. She never completes it. So, today, I set the timer and gave her 1 subject at a time. Here's what I noticed about that part: cursive is really dragging her down. We started the year printing all the copywork assignments, but have been working through Cheerful Cursive and have finished all the lowercase letters. So she is excited to write cursive for all her assignments. She's just very new to it and it takes more time. I think I might either have her shorten the copywork, or spread it out over more days. She really wants to do it and do it all in cursive. I think this will improve with practice, so I want to keep her practicing!

The other time robbers were:

MATH. We are using another math curriculum (not Singapore), and I think partly I am scheduling too much per day, and partly she needs to work on her math facts so it goes faster. I'm going to take a week or so off our math curriculum, and spend some time each day for math just drilling facts in creative ways.

R&S. We usually do this at the end of the day, and she is tired. She really dawdles here and gets VERY distracted. If she comes up on something she needs help with, she just sits there until I happen to walk by and notice that she's stopped working (totally not acceptable, but I've battled this with her for a long time). I'm usually not at the table because by this time of day, we've had so much school that I need to be getting other things done!! Also, anything that has to do with alphabetizing or dictionary skills takes her FOREVER. What should I do for this? Do I just allow extra time these days? It's something she struggles with, so I don't want to shorten the lesson for fear that she won't get enough practice.

TRANSITIONS. Every day, we put our books and supplies away in the same place. But somehow, things get scattered. She leaves her Bible in the car after church and forgets it's there. She takes the scissors to her room to cut out something for a letter to grandma, and forgets they're there. She takes her notebook out to show her friend what she's been doing, and leaves it in the family room under a pile of magazines. She is terribly disorganized, and frankly, organization is something I really have to work at too. Our house is not overly cluttered, but certainly full of life and not normally in a state of extreme tidiness!! So, we spent a lot of time searching for books and supplies today. Her DITHOR book was the worst--it was stuck inside her workbook. We looked for it for 15 minutes. So frustrating. I don't know what else to do here aside from keeping the school shelf under lock and key!! They have other supplies so we don't have to get into the school supplies (for this very reason), but so often, she has lost her other pencils or other scissors and "borrows" from the school supply caddy. *SIGH*

Another issue we had today was RABBIT TRAILS. Dd is a first child, and somewhat of a "know-it-all." So during our discussions, she will bring up every possible thing she knows that remotely relates to what we're talking about. Especially during Bible Study or storytime. I have to cut her off sometimes or she would talk and talk and talk. She interrupts every other sentence with a comment or question. Often, they lead to precious times of discussion and sharing of our hearts. Other times, they are colossal time wasters and a frustration to me. I have trouble knowing where to set the limits on this.

My other problem is, I have a small house. If I can't send the boys outside because of the weather (like today), they are inside while we do school and are very distracting. I can't send them upstairs to their room to play while we do school because they will wake the baby. If they are downstairs playing or with a planned activity, dd is terribly distracted. The only way I can think to keep them out of our hair during school time (if they can't go outside) is to send them to my room to watch a movie. But (1) I'm afraid they would get in trouble getting into something in my room so far from my watchful eye, and (2) I'm totally not ok with tv for them during the early part of the day. One of my sons has a terrible problem with screen time, and I have to limit it to the last hour before dinner or he will become a monster. And he has to earn that time, which he doesn't earn half the time.

So there it is. Any suggestions?

mariaw wrote:Well, I set out for today to be different, and it wasn't. But at least, I paid attention to where the problems are.

I know at our house we have to tackle problem areas one at a time, and often it's months (and sometimes YEARS ) of training to create worthwhile changes and lasting good habits. You've done a good job of paying attention to what the problems are, and I think you are now armed and ready for tackling each area of concern. This is time well spent, as the time we spend helping our dc form good habits are likely to last them a lifetime (and on the flip side, if left unaddressed often burden them for a lifetime ). The process you are beginning here is something I do every year - reflecting on what could go better in the day and what are truly the problem areas that need to be fixed. You are off to an awesome start by being able to identify the problem areas! Here are a few thoughts I had after reading your notes...

mariaw wrote:First, we don't do the same order of boxes each day. I think that would probably really help. Usually, I give dd her Preparing independent work assignments, then send her off to her room while I teach LHFHG to the boys. She never completes it. So, today, I set the timer and gave her 1 subject at a time. Here's what I noticed about that part: cursive is really dragging her down. We started the year printing all the copywork assignments, but have been working through Cheerful Cursive and have finished all the lowercase letters. So she is excited to write cursive for all her assignments. She's just very new to it and it takes more time. I think I might either have her shorten the copywork, or spread it out over more days. She really wants to do it and do it all in cursive. I think this will improve with practice, so I want to keep her practicing!

I'd number the boxes in the order she's to do them and stick to that order. This will establish a routine she can get used to and can move through without waiting to ask you what to do next. I'd also stop having her write in cursive until she has completely finished Cheerful Cursive. Cursive is not so important that it should be done at the cost of lengthening your day and frustrating both of you this much. Even if she likes it, it doesn't matter - you both need to like homeschooling in general, so finishing in a decent amount of time is the #1 priority right now. I'd definitely ditch the cursive outside of Cheerful Cursive and go back to printing.

mariaw wrote: MATH. We are using another math curriculum (not Singapore), and I think partly I am scheduling too much per day, and partly she needs to work on her math facts so it goes faster. I'm going to take a week or so off our math curriculum, and spend some time each day for math just drilling facts in creative ways.

Have you considered switching to Singapore? It's a solid program that is very time conscious. Otherwise, I'd shorten the assignments of whatever program you are using and set the timer for say 20-30 minutes maximum with math, and however far she gets each day is how far she gets.

mariaw wrote: R&S. We usually do this at the end of the day, and she is tired. She really dawdles here and gets VERY distracted. If she comes up on something she needs help with, she just sits there until I happen to walk by and notice that she's stopped working (totally not acceptable, but I've battled this with her for a long time). I'm usually not at the table because by this time of day, we've had so much school that I need to be getting other things done!! Also, anything that has to do with alphabetizing or dictionary skills takes her FOREVER. What should I do for this? Do I just allow extra time these days? It's something she struggles with, so I don't want to shorten the lesson for fear that she won't get enough practice.

We do 2/3 of R & S on the markerboard. This cuts down on the writing and the time it takes to do it, and it has not hurt my ds's retention of the material. Here's a link that further describes how we do this in case it would be helpful:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4659&p=34269#p34269

mariaw wrote: TRANSITIONS. Every day, we put our books and supplies away in the same place. But somehow, things get scattered. She leaves her Bible in the car after church and forgets it's there. She takes the scissors to her room to cut out something for a letter to grandma, and forgets they're there. She takes her notebook out to show her friend what she's been doing, and leaves it in the family room under a pile of magazines. She is terribly disorganized, and frankly, organization is something I really have to work at too. Our house is not overly cluttered, but certainly full of life and not normally in a state of extreme tidiness!! So, we spent a lot of time searching for books and supplies today. Her DITHOR book was the worst--it was stuck inside her workbook. We looked for it for 15 minutes. So frustrating. I don't know what else to do here aside from keeping the school shelf under lock and key!! They have other supplies so we don't have to get into the school supplies (for this very reason), but so often, she has lost her other pencils or other scissors and "borrows" from the school supply caddy. *SIGH*

I get this. I think there are some dc who will just always have a harder time with this, but they are probably talented in another area, so it all works out, right? We have gone to having 2 complete caddies of art supplies, and art supplies in each of our dc's rooms. This has made a big difference since they don't need to borrow supplies from other places - they pretty much have them everywhere. Here's a picture of the pampered chef tool turnabouts we use:

mariaw wrote: Another issue we had today was RABBIT TRAILS. Dd is a first child, and somewhat of a "know-it-all." So during our discussions, she will bring up every possible thing she knows that remotely relates to what we're talking about. Especially during Bible Study or storytime. I have to cut her off sometimes or she would talk and talk and talk. She interrupts every other sentence with a comment or question. Often, they lead to precious times of discussion and sharing of our hearts. Other times, they are colossal time wasters and a frustration to me. I have trouble knowing where to set the limits on this.

I have one of my dc that is prone to hop on rabbit trails. I pretty much only allow it during Bible discussions, and even then, huge hopping off topic isn't o.k. I just let him know 'we're getting off track here, and we need to keep moving or we won't finish in time for you to play later today". This is especially important at the beginning of the year for him, as it sets the tone for the rest of the year. I lighten up a bit on this further into the year, because he's able to finish things more quickly since we're in a rhythm, and there's more time for it, but I still don't let it take over the discussion.

mariaw wrote: My other problem is, I have a small house. If I can't send the boys outside because of the weather (like today), they are inside while we do school and are very distracting. I can't send them upstairs to their room to play while we do school because they will wake the baby. If they are downstairs playing or with a planned activity, dd is terribly distracted. The only way I can think to keep them out of our hair during school time (if they can't go outside) is to send them to my room to watch a movie. But (1) I'm afraid they would get in trouble getting into something in my room so far from my watchful eye, and (2) I'm totally not ok with tv for them during the early part of the day. One of my sons has a terrible problem with screen time, and I have to limit it to the last hour before dinner or he will become a monster. And he has to earn that time, which he doesn't earn half the time.

Exercise videos help my kids on rainy days. Collage video has a bunch for kids. Otherwise, I'd look at your house and see what areas you can utilize for school that you aren't yet. I did this last year, and realized I could use our entryway. We put toyshelves in there and a T.V./V.C.R/DVD player in the top of the closet. This has been great for keeping my little one happy and not right near us the whole time. Also, audio books with headphones and educational computer games are things that they could do. I'm not sure of their ages, but erector sets, legos, KNEX, etc. have been good independent things for our sons. A snack/drink time can also be added, as well as an educational video (much better than t.v. because you know what they're watching and it has a definite end). Liberty's Kids and Be the Creature are some favorites at our house (though there is some evolutionary content in Be the Creature, which we've discussed).

I also just saw your comments about what I'd said earlier - sorry I missed that until now. In answer to that, I'd still set the timer for boxes (and be sure she can see it ticking down so when she's hopping on a bunny trail you can reign her in ), but I don't think I'd set the work aside if she doesn't finish it and have dd pick up where she left off the next day (other than in math) because she may never really get into the rhythm of truly completing what she needs to each day. Plus, that will make all of your plans be off. I'd still set the timer, but work toward finishing in the alloted amount of time, knowing she'll go longer at first. Anyway, I hope some of the above ideas I've shared can help. I think you should feel very empowered with this excellent list you have put together. I'd attack each one of these with vigor, and I guarantee you'll begin to see progress with some of them! I'm sure other ladies will have great ideas too.

In Christ,
Julie

I've had 2 days since my last post, and thought I'd let you know that things are going better. We finished each day before lunch. The key seems to be to have a "quick attitude." And to keep the time between subjects down to a minimum. I also tried letting her read some of the storytime book out loud to me while I made lunch, and that worked really well. Also, I took the math suggestion to just stop when the timer went off. We did half a page, when usually I would have her do 2 or 3. So that's an area where I just need to lower my expectations.

Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions! That's why I love this board!

Hooray - I am celebrating with you! That's awesome to hear! It's amazing how pinpointing the issues can really help. I remember taking a legal pad last year with me everywhere, jotting down all the things that were driving me nuts (some school-related, some things with our house, and some with the overall flow of our day). That helped me figure out what I needed to fix. I'm so glad your days are clipping along now.

In Christ,
Julie

Maria,

Thanks for the update! I'm so glad that you're finding the areas that can be time stealers in your day and are tweaking to move through your day at a quicker pace. I've found the same things to be helpful at my house with my little dawdler! A quick pace of moving through the boxes in the guide with no extra frills and watching the transition time between subjects makes a HUGE difference here too.

Blessings,
Carrie