Tested my ds in SM and still confused, any suggestions?

[Michelle]

Hi there!

I feel like I should be saying, "it's me again!" I think this will be my last question for a while. My final hurdle to beginning school Aug. 31 is choosing my ds math!

My dd (mathy kid) will be doing Singapore for 1st grade. We really want to have our ds do Singapore as well, but he is almost 10 and beginning 4th grade.

I printed off the 2A test and just in looking at it I thought he wouldn't have any problems with most of it. I was wrong. He got 15/49 wrong. He'd been taught EVERYTHING on the test even. Seems like he just forgot. He also has a big problem in not paying enough attention to things like plus and minus signs or exact wording in word problems. So, he's capable of doing the work, he just doesn't slow down and pay enough attention to get things right. (Note: he went to our church's school for 1st and 2nd and they let him count on his fingers and do his work over again, even if he got most of it wrong, with no consquences. There, it was ok not to read the directions correctly and get the entire assignment wrong. He just had to do it over the right way and he didn't mind that.)

I think that if I gave him a second 2A test that he would have done better, but not great. He still freaks out about minuses and can't do much in his head. It's too bad I can't test him to get a feel for what he REALLY knows. So....I had him do the 1B test. That went a lot better, but he still made too many silly mistakes. ( I should add that he thought he had gotten everything right on the 1B test.)

We do believe that he is somewhat dyslexic. He still gets his b and d mixed up, and he's a phonetic speller, still spelling most words wrong. He reads fine because he's great at decoding within a story. His eyes just seem to go much faster than his brain so things like plus and minus signs and exact wording will trip him up.

Sorry so long!! Any suggestions on level placement or how to get him to slow down mentally? I'm leaning towards having him begin 2A (with Bigger guide) this year for 4th grade and doing math most days and all year long to catch up.

Thanks for reading! God bless, Michelle

[water2wine]

Having a special needs child I would lean toward buying both and starting midway through 1B. Singapore is not a drill and kill math and it does require different thinking. I would just do a lot of hand holding in the beginning and help him to learn how to see what the problem is asking for each time. If he does well maybe work at a faster pace, then go into 2A. Unless you think it was a bad day but it sounds like he needs some help in seeing what is really there. If he misses them have them do it again but not with a consequence as much as a thorough explanation of what is being asked and what he saw that was not there etc. I am curious to see what others would say and I am no expert but that is what I would do. Also just want to say a big regret with my older kids is that I did not go with Singapore. The reason I did not is that it would have taken them back in level what appeared to me to be too far. Time has passed now and I used Singapore with my two oldest and I see going back would have been the thing to do. Hope this helps a bit. I know you will get some great advice from other moms as well.

[my3sons]

Hi Michelle! I like your idea of starting him with 2A along with the hands-on BHFHG plans. I think that is a good place to start. One of my favorite things about Singapore is it has a manageable amount of problems to do. This cuts down on rushing or silly mistakes due to an overwhelming amount of work to be done. I've let my ds know that the idea of Singapore is fewer problems done right, rather than tons of problems done sloppily. So every problem needs to be looked at carefully. One of my dc has had trouble noting the signs too. With him, I pointed to the signs before he even started the page and had him tell me what he'd do. In other math programs the whole assignment is often focused on the same operation - like they may add for 50 problems. This leads me to another strength of Singapore - it makes kids think. So, each problem a child needs to think what to do rather than just add because that's what the whole page will be asking them to do. Your ds will learn this and really begin to be able to do mental math more easily over time with Singapore, but it will take awhile, so try to be patient (I struggle with patience myself, which is why this comes to mind for me - you perhaps don't share this same struggle of mine ).

Anyway, I think this is a good plan. It makes no sense to jump ahead to higher levels just to get to a certain level. I'd look at this year as making him feel very capable at math and filling in some gaps he may have. I wouldn't feel the need to catch up so quickly, as Singapore is advanced anyway. Doing one lesson each day is a good idea, and you make a good point that you can slowly catch up doing it 5 days a week throughout the whole year. I like this plan so much better than trying to double up math lessons each day. I'm actually excited for you to start Singapore. I think you'll find it so enjoyable to teach the HOD hands-on math lessons, and I don't mind sitting alongside my dc as they do the 10-15 problems of math Singapore requires each day. (I know I'd walk away and do something else if they had 50+ problems to do.) I think you'll find this is a very manageable way to teach math in an excellent way.

In Christ,
Julie

P.S. I was typing the same time as water2wine - and if starting with 1B seems to be a better starting place for your ds, by all means do that. That's why I love this board - different ideas from moms can be put together to = a great plan for you individually.

[mskogen]

Michelle,
I was in the same situation back in March. I thought my oldest would test higher than he did. He got about the same score on 2A and didn't do that much better on 1B. Defintely not as well as I wanted him too. So I started him with 1B. I wanted to make sure that he had a firm grasp on the concepts. We are talking basic math that everything is based on. We have been doing math 5 days a week since March and will be finished with 2B in September. He has much better grasp of concepts now. I love the way singapore builds on concepts. Ex. about a month or so ago my ds learned to work with 100's when adding or subtracting. 325+99 is easier when you do 1 from 325 to make 99, 100, then I have 324 + 100= 424. Well then last week we did the same idea with money. I was all prepared to do the lesson and wrote $3.35+0.99 on the board. As I turned around he said that is easy Mom the answer is $4.34. WOW!!! Talk about a shocked Mommy and a very happy Mommy. Thanks Carrie for the activities because before them I didn't want to use singapore. Sorry this is so long but I wanted to encourage thats it is ok and a great idea to back up to 1B if necessary or 2B, which ever is the best for you ds. Best wishes and success!!!

[Michelle]

Thanks a ton for the replies!

I ordered the Bigger guide and SM 2A/2B for my ds. Still debating beginning him in 1B, but I already have it because my dd will be using level 1 this year. Decisions! Decisions!

God bless,
Michelle

[water2wine]

Do we not just agonize over these things. I know I do. You'll make the right decision.

[Tansy]

this sounds soooo much like my daughter, and a bit like me.. I think I should call this post confessions of a dyslexic...

I highly reccomend you give him some hands on manipulives to use. I found singapore reaching for mental math with my dd1 before she was ready/could do it. I switched to MUS to give the manipultives consistancy. (my dd1 could not handle 5 rasins and 5 rasins = 10 rasins and then 5 peanuts and 5 peanuts cant then equal 10 peanuts because they need to be raisns)

As a dislexic I highly reccomend you have him use pudding to write his B's D's and P's plus's and minuses, make sand paper letters that he has to finger trace, and give him side walk chalk and have him draw them huge!!! then have him walk the letter the way it is to be formed. Sound crazy but his gross moter skills can really help enforce the fine.

My dd has started in a program called math in a flash, (for muliplication) essentially it is 2 sessions of visual input, 1 session of verbal input, 1 session of verbal while writing input, then last weeks problems are given in a self timed test so the kid is compeating with themselves. My dd loves it.
Her therapist tells me "yes we know you have taught it and yes its in there... we just have to get her to let it out." that is why she has 5 mini math sessions a day. I also do 50% of her math work.. (this was really hard for me to do but I can see improvement already) I do one she does one just like it. It is immediate reinforcement of the correct way to do it over and over again.

Is his handwriting poor? this is another sign he is "coping and not getting it" poor handwriting means if you can't tell what the letter is you might think I had the right one..

My brain is not right or left dominate and I once was ambidextrous. this means some times stuff get stuck in the wrong place but I could intuit the corect answer. I did a lot of guessing as a child. I could not hold all of the information in my head. I would forget I was adding or subtracting in the middle of my work.. it wasn't until my parents drilled the basic problems ~6+7=13 ~ 13-7=6 ~ into my head (I was allowed an abacus to help me with the ones I didn't know) that I finally got ok at math. I was 13 before I could tell time with any accuracy. the good news is I hold an engineering degree It is over-come-able.

I Don't think any one program will fit your kid because its all about how you teach it to him. Carries math activites are great! Use them! but I think from my experiance as a child, he will need more drill till the problems are fixated in a place in his brain where he can axcess them quickly, and is not even thinking about them the answer just pops up.

So those are my sugesstions hope they help.
Tansy

P.S. my brain does go faster than my ablity to read...and I drive my kids nutz because I don't use the exact words and I'm leaving out parts of their favorite books, all the time. this is very typical of a dyslixic learner. I think in Pictures not letters or numbers it's all images. we are globel thinkers, and can piece together a whole from very little information just ask my hubby who has yet to surprize me when I comes to surprizes because I say "Are you planning on taking me to the beach this weekend?" because the sand toys are moved slightly, and he called his friend.

[Michelle]

Hello Tansy! Thanks for your input.

I too have always been a bit dyslexic so I can understand where my ds is coming from. I've read up on it a lot and have not found his problems to be major like most describe. My problems showed up in 3rd grade (just like my DS's!) and they wanted to hold me back a grade. My parents didn't want that, so off I went to 4th. I just was lucky enough to have a dad who would spend hours every night helping me study. Most stuff I just had to overcome on my own. I didn't even know my problems had a name until I was in college and stumbled across a book on dyslexia and said, "That's me!"

My ds has ok handwriting. I have always been able to tell what the letters are. He got A's in handwriting when he was at church school. He's let it slide since then though. I save those books to show him what he's capable of.

His b/d issues are ongoing. However, if I ask him what the letter is, he can clearly see he wrote the wrong one. Those are good ideas for reinforcing the correct way!

He's never shown any signs of being ambidexterous (sp?). I'm left handed myself, so I naturally had to become that a bit to survive in this right handed world!

I also think in pictures and I believe my ds does too! It's so fun to "see" inside his head sometimes. Like when we do flash cards, there's some that he routinely says in reverse. ie. 9 x 8 = 72, but he will quickly say 27, but then correct himself. He's done other things to show me his mind works different. I see lots of things in 3D pictures, like the calendar, for example. The months of the year are in a 3D ring in front of me. I could go on and on!

I know what you mean about needing the drill. We do mult., plus, and minus flash cards daily. I do want to TRY Singapore Carrie's way with him this year. You have to get creative with teaching these kids. When I taught him his mult. tables I had him singing to a music cd of a lady singing them while he looked at flash cards of them with the answers listed on the cards too. Worked great! You just need to get as many senses involved as you can, but I'm sure you know that!

All in all, my ds is extremely creative, but struggles in certain areas like spelling and math. I was a terrible speller too, but it eventually just clicked (I loved to read too) and I was like a human dictionary by college. I did great in things like geometry and statistics, maybe he will be too. I believe this curriculum is just what he needs, I sure wish I had it!

Thanks for all the support, this board is GREAT!!
God bless, Michelle
ps. my dad and brother are both mech. engineers and my ds wants to be one too, or a pro. lego builder!