**Please help me choose!!

[Mamochka5]

Hi all! This is my first time posting on the HOD boards.

We are currently using LHTH with my 3 youngest children (2, 3, and 5) and they are enjoying it and learning a lot! I'm looking at the new Creation to Christ for my oldest 2 dc this year. I'm trying to decide between that and MFW Creation to Greeks. The good thing (from what I can tell) about MFW is that I can combine ALL my dc, which is very appealing. I've used Sonlight before, which was good, but too difficult to combine so I'm jumping ship this year. We are following the 4 year cycle and want to start with this time period. We did American History last year and don't want to do it again this year. We are in Classical Conversations co-op group and this time period will line up perfectly. If anyone has used CtG before, I'd love your take on that, too. I know Creation to Christ is new, so I'm not sure how much feedback I'll get on that.

How doable is it to combine my 10 and 7 y.o. with CtC, with a 5 y.o. listening in? I am already going to do SL Core 4/5 for the youngers this year and do not want to add another program, too. I'm focusing more on reading and math for my 5 y.o.'s Kindergarten year, but want her to just listen in to whatever interests her. I've always had my 7 and 10 y.o. together for History, Science, read-alouds, etc. and am hoping to continue that, but don't know how I can do this with this program. Any thoughts?? I looked at Preparing, too, but I really want to get going on the 4 year cycle. We've also done a year of SOTW I and 2 for World History in one year. I want to go a bit more in-depth, period by period now.

My almost 10 y.o. is an excellent reader. We wouldn't use HOD's writing, though, as we use IEW through Classical Conversations. He does well with Singapore. My 7 y.o. (going into 2nd grade) just finished ETC 3 and we're working on 4. She is, I guess, an "emerging" reader. She is currently doing Singapore 1B. They are obviously at very different levels with reading, writing, and math. My 5 y.o. is just starting phonics instruction.

How can I combine? Or, would MFW be easier to do that? I also want to have fun things for them to do. I saw that MFW does Biblical Feasts. But some of MFW books for CtG look pretty advanced (Streams of Civilization.) So, I guess I'm looking for HOW I can combine (IF I can) with HOD, or if you all think that it's just too much tweaking. I'm looking for a slightly easier plan this year than I had last year (coming up w/a lot of it myself.) I'm a neurotic curriculum agonizer!! LOL! I am just so torn b/c they both look great!!!! If I would "need" to do 2 programs, which would I do? I would shelve SL Core 4/5 then b/c I can't do that, too. I would sooooo appreciate all your suggestions.

Thanks so much!
Liz

[my3sons]

Hi Liz, and welcome to the HOD Board! We are glad to have you here. There is much I'd like to share, and I have some ideas brewing, but before I jump ahead of myself, I'm going to get some more information from you. If you could please check out the placement chart and give us a snapshot of your 5 yo, 7 yo, and 10 yo - that would be super! We've used the placement chart for help in placing our dc, and it has been easy to use, quick, and accurate. If you could just comment on the first page for each of your dc, that would be super. Here is a link to it:
http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

I will definitely check back then, and I know a bunch of other ladies will chime in then too. HOD is incredible, so I am glad you have found your way here.

In Christ,
Julie

[Mamochka5]

Thanks for your reply, Julie. I hope you're right and others will chime in, too. Here is a little more info. I hope it is useful.

My 3 y.o. ds is learning to write his letters and numbers. He (along w/my 2 and 5 y.o.) have been and are continuing through LHTH this summer.

My 5 y.o. dd can write most letters and is starting to try to sound out words. We have not yet started her phonics instruction, which we'll begin in August w/Explode the Code. She has not yet done formal math (just some basic workbooks) and will begin w/Singapore, as my others did. She can write words, but has not yet done anything longer. She is very eager to "do" school. She enjoys being read to, but does not have a very long attention span. She didn't listen to most of SOTW last year b/c it's over her head and no pictures.

My 7.o. dd just finished ETC 3 and is starting on book #4. She is now an "official" 2nd grader. - She can copy sentences and likes to try to write poems,, albeit her spelling/phonics is still coming along. For LA last year we did ETC for phonics and FLL (only part of it), and HWT 1st grade book. We'll either continue w/FLL or do Growing w/Grammar. She is about to begin Singapore Math 1B. She likes math, but I spend extra time reviewing math facts w/her b/c she's not picking it up w/Singapore's lessons alone. She likes to read aloud stories that don't have too many words on the page, but likes being read to and has no problem with SOTW, Kingfisher, etc. We read "Johnny Tremain" last year and she was as interested as my 10 y.o. Actually, she loved SOTW w/the activity book. She's beyond the "Bob" books, but gets overwhelmed if there isn't much white space.

My 10 y.o. ds has been reading since age 3. He reads any book he can find in the house! He did cursive handwriting (RFH), Growing with Grammar, Essentials of the English Language, and IEW writing program (which I adore!) His language skills are excellent, and he is good in math. He also did a combination of Singapore (1st part of the year) and Rod and Staff math (2nd part). I'm not sure about next year b/c he did well with both. Our Singapore teacher guide didn't have enough guidance for ME to be able to teach it, so we switched. We have no spelling program and am searching for a solid, phonics-based program that is easy to use. He can work independently, but also likes to do things with us. In fact all my dc, INCLUDING my 10 y.o. love to do the little crafts in LHTH. It's very sweet.

These 4 children (my 2 y.o. dd is in the nursery) are in Classical Conversations once a week, too. I am tutoring this year and will need to spend extra time at home on the memorization for that, as well.

I'm trying to decide how to combine the oldest 2 w/the time Ancient time period so my oldest can at least get in 2 parts of the cycle through before he does the CC Challenge program in 2 years (if he does it.) I'm not sure they ALL need a full program. I'd like to focus on 3 Rs with my littles, as well as stories/playtime. Again, my curriculum background is mostly Sonlight (just 2 cores, though....4/5 and K) and doing 2 programs (cores/programs...not sure what HOD calls them) stresses me out. We'll probably read some of the Core K books this year, but I really didn't love that core. It felt all over the place and not really interrelated. I'm trying to have a more organized, less harried year so we can actually focus on 3Rs and our memory work a little more, which not losing the richness of an excellent history program. As I mentioned, I have also been checking out MFW Creation to Greeks b/c you can combine everyone. I'm not sure about a few books, or how it all works, though. HOD's Creation to Christ looks so good. I love that the Geography of the Bible lands is part of it. Can I make that work for my older 2 and just have my 5 y.o. listen in on the history that she finds interesting?? I may do a little SOTW Vol 1 w/activity book for the 5 and 7 y.o., too. Maybe that's the fix?? I'm just already feeling overwhelmed. I hope that info helps. Maybe that's the solution. HOD CTC with the oldest 2 and add SOTW book (or CDs) w/activities for the youngers and we'd be on the same thing. (??) My 7 y.o. would obviously need a different LA and Math. But....much of CTC is independent work, which she couldn't do. And, obviously, our homeschool funds are not without limits, so I can't buy a separate everything for everyone!

Please help!! I'm hoping Carrie will also pipe in, since she knows the CtC program better than anyone. Also, is HOD scheduled for 4 days, or 5? We need to do 4 b/c of Classical Conversations. I'd love at least a few different possibilities.

Thanks so much!!

[Kathleen]

Hi Liz! I wanted to pop in and welcome you to the board.

Here's an idea that popped into my head as I read about your family and your schooling needs this year. (Just so you know, here on the HOD board you're going to get help placing your kids in HOD programs and we know that you and your husband will have to decide if you want all of them there or want to do something different for some of them.) I think your 10 yo sounds like he would do well in CTC like you're planning. Then, it may be easier on you to group the 5 and 7 yo and then your 2 and 3 yo as you move ahead. If you put the 5 and 7 yo together, I think that LHFHG would be the best place to start. It would be perfect for the 5 yo, and I know you mentioned that your kids love the hands-on things which HOD has a lot of. LHFHG takes a big sweep of history beginning with Creation, so while your history time period wouldn't line up exactly, it would be in the same area for a while. You could always let your 7 yo listen in on some of CTC if you wanted to as well.

So, if you went with this plan, you'd have...
CTC - 10 yo
LHFHG - 5 and 7 yo
LHTH - 2 and 3 yo

I haven't used Sonlight (except for preK), but I know that other HOD moms have - including Carrie before she wrote her guides - and many of them have shared that they could not pull off more than one Sonlight core but can easily manage several HOD programs. Because HOD has the kids move to becoming more independent starting with Preparing, your time is freed up to spend it with the little ones learning to read, etc, that need you.

CTC is a 4-day program. LHFHG is written as a 5-day program. You could do it in 4 days though. The units don't have to be completed in the same week. Monday can be day 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 and it still works great.

I hope that helps a little. Praying you can find a good fit for your school year. HOD has been a tremendous blessing to my family, and I'm sure it will bless yours, too.
Kathleen

[WigglesMom]

After reading through both of your posts, what I am coming away with is that you are only wanting to combine the learning with history and science and have your own plans for the rest. Is this right? From reading it, it sounds like you want to keep them in the same history cycle. I wanted to make sure exactly what you were wanting advise for-the whole program or just the learning with history part.
I can understand being warry of doing more than one guide with so many kids. I am doing 3 guides with 4 kids right now-BHFHG,LHFHG, and LHTH. It really isn't that bad. I was nervous before I started, but now I am in a pretty good place with it all. It isn't stressful at all.
I wouldn't recommend doing CTC with a 7 yr old even just the history part. All of the activities build from the previous skills and such from the earlier guides. I haven't done CTC so this is just from reading about the guides and how they increase in skills and independence. You would really be adapting the program for your 7 year old and I don't know how well you could adapt some of it for your 7 year old.
There was a post about the differences in MFW and HOD and it really helps you to see what would work best for your family with the philosophies of both of them. I read it through earlier and it is really thorough. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1446&p=11109. Someone had posted this link under another question about MFW and HOD. It is a very helpful post if you are trying to decide between the 2 programs.
Val

[my3sons]

Thanks, Liz! That really helps, and you'll have more moms respond now that you've shared your thoughts about the placement chart. I think there are 2 super options that would fit your dc and you well.

Option 1: This is my favorite option, and one Kathleen wisely suggested. Combine your 5 and 7 yo in LHFHG, and have your 10 yo do CTC. This would fit each of your dc's needs so well, and give you a super easy day. LHFHG only takes 1 1/2 hours a day to do, and CTC takes 4 to 4 1/2 hours. They are both excellent programs, and each child would have his/her needs met squarely.

Option 2: Your 5 yo could do LHFHG, and your 7 and 10 yo could do Bigger Hearts. Your 10 yo could do Bigger Heart's Extension package, as well DITHOR Level 4/5, and harder grammar/math. Your 7 yo would be stretched doing this option though, which is why I prefer the first option. Bigger Hearts teaches American history in a unique way - biographically - that makes it a totally fresh trip through American History, no matter what trip you've taken through American history before. It was one of our favorite years.

I'd really shy away from your 7 yo doing the Ancients with any program right now. The content of that time period is often violent, pagan, and intended for more mature learners - not for little ears to hear yet. I think CTC does it the best of anything out there - making sure to give a real feel for the time period without glorifying violence or pagan society - but still, it would be too mature for a 7 yo.

HOD makes is super easy to do 2 programs - I've been doing it for many years now and thoroughly enjoying school. We'll be doing CTC, Beyond, and LHTH next year, and I know we'll still be able to finish in the early afternoon and enjoy the rest of our day with free time things. I think you'd feel it was a breath of fresh air to do school the HOD way. It is an incredibly stress-free, happy way to homeschool.

In Christ,
Julie

P.S. Val and I were typing at the same time and thinking the same thing - oh the wonderful world of computers!

Praying God's direction for you Liz!

[Mamochka5]

Hi again,

Thank you so much for your responses. You've got me thinking! I have a few questions/comments. First, I'm actually not too concerned w/doing the Ancients w/my 7 y.o. We did the Ancients w/SOTW vol. 1 when she was 5 and she loved it. I do kind of read ahead in case there is anything upsetting and I don't do that....sacrifices, etc. I let my 10 y.o. read those parts (if appropriate) silently. That was sort of the 2 sided coin for us with Sonlight. I actually LIKED discussing false gods etc. as they came up in studying cultures b/c my dc could say WHY they were false and why Jesus is the only true God! Again, on an age-appropriate level, though. The flip side (which is one reason we decided to look at other curric. rather than doing Cores 1 and 2) is that there's a bit TOO much emphasis on this stuff, imho. What I like about the Ancients w/both MFW and HOD (from looking at there Tables of Contents) is that much of it is Old Testament as well as other cultures of the time. Love that.

You are right, I am trying to keep them in the same History cycle and same science topic. Especially as we are all rotating through CC together. I feel like it makes all of our stuff tie together and we can act things out, etc. You are sort of right about me having ideas about the "other" stuff, although it pretty much lines up w/HOD--Singapore Math and GWG (not the same, but very similar to Rod and Staff w/less copying, which is why we did that last year for my ds.) My 7 y.o. is doing FLL w/ETC. I will definitely keep going w/ETC b/c I love it. I could honestly take or leave FLL. I'm just trying not to spend more than I need to and we already own it. I like the gentle approach, but don't want it too gentle for her b/c I know my oldest has benefited greatly from a formal grammar early on. (He did the old SL LA and even though I thought the layout was a bit...odd....he actually learned a lot.) Please don't all jump on me for not be as "gentle" as you all!

So, I could do CTC with my 10 y.o. and reread SOTW along w/our SL readers and Core 4/5 (old PK) stories and books for the 3, 5, and 7 y.o. And then just do LA and Math with those three, since I know what I'm doing there. I'm stuck at this point b/c I really like how Carrie has it all planned out and I love the little Singapore activities she includes. I personally have a hard time "thinking" like Singapore so help is good!

Both of you mentioned doing LHFHG with the 5 and 7 y.o. I'm considering your suggestion. My question is: What about phonics, reading, and math? My 5 y.o. is just STARTING phonics and isn't reading yet. (She'll be in kindergarten). It looks like a great fit for her, for sure! But my 7 y.o. is reading long vowel words and has worked most of the way through Singapore 1 A (Not Earlybird, regular), so there's a big gap between the two. How would I handle this? I don't want to hold back my 2nd grader by forcing her to do spelling tests with "hat", "bug", etc. b/c she did all that last year and I want her to progress. So I think SHE fits better in the Beyond program. But would that be too much for my 5 y.o.?? I'm still going to be going through LHTH w/the 2 and 3 y.o. and can't do 3 other programs, too!

My other question is about time. If one program is 4 hours and another is 2.....is that a 6 hour school day?! I think that's too long for us. We also need to do our AWANA verses and CC Memory work, plus have play time with my 2 y.o. Or...does everyone work on Math at the same time, then LA at the same time and it cuts down on the time? If I did CTC w/either LHFHG or Beyond, how long is our school day? (We'd be doing it mostly 4 days a week b/c of CC on Tuesdays.)

I read the link comparing MFW with HOD. It was helpful....thanks!! Is there anyone on the board who has actually USED both MFW and HOD that could give me an idea?? I've never even looked at a MFW guide in person, so I feel clueless. I at least feel like I have a pretty good idea of HOD guides b/c we are doing Little Hands. I need to choose soon so I can prepare. Also, does the CTC program have something similar to MFW where the children learn about/prepare Biblical feasts? That looks like fun, so just wondering if CTC has any "fun" activities to do as a family, or is it all just my 10 y.o.??

Thank you, ladies. I'm praying for guidance and hoping others jump on here, too! I will keep checking for updated posts. lol.

[Mamochka5]

Oh....I don't know if I actually answered your earlier question. I'm looking for advice for entire programs. But, if you have a history-specific suggestion, I'll take that, too!!

[Mamochka5]

I'm sorry....I keep thinking of things after I post. Does LHFHG have copywork? I don't see it mentioned on the sample lesson. My 7 y.o. does copywork and I'd want her to continue. And have my 5 y.o. learn to do it, too. I see that Beyond has some. I'm having a hard time seeing how to combine the girls at this early stage of reading/learning to read, etc. ????????? Also, how does the spelling work? We really need to do spelling this year. It kind of got pushed aside last year b/c we didn't like our program. I looked in the catalog at the sample page for Beyond and it showed the spelling as "short a" words. Where should my 7 y.o. be if she's already past that, but still needs phonics instruction/practice on letter combos. (boat, great, etc.) That's where she is now in phonics. I hope that makes sense. I'm starting to not make sense to myself!!

[Jessi]

LHFHG does not have copy work. But you could use the Bible memory verses in LHFHG to begin copy work if that is what you wanted to do.

CTC allows for your child to begin to do some independent work and with each new guide in the history cycle they'll be given more independent work thereby making it easier for you to work with your younger children. I'd let your 10 year old do CTC alone and have your 7 year old do Beyond as she is an emerging reader and also working on copywork. It gives her a good starting point for each consecutive guide after that. I would do SL P4/5 (reading the selections for enjoyment only) for your 5 and 3 year old and let the two year old tag along while also doing LHTH. I'd then add in the appropriate phonics instruction and math placement for your 5 year old. She is young and this wouldn't be overwhelming and still allow her to add the fun stuff in.

Now if you wanted to continue after this year with HOD I'd put the eldest then in the next guide and move your next child up to Bigger, but I would start introducing her to more indpendent work in that guide. I know Mom2Monkeys is doing this with her daughter who is in Bigger this year. You might want to pick her brain. Then I'd move the then 6 year old into Little Hearts with first grade options or Beyond and work on emerging reader stuff with her. The sooner you can get your elder kids working more indpendently efficiently, the easier it will be for you to handle teaching the various guides.

That is just my opinion. God bless and hope you find the right solution.

[WigglesMom]

You are right, I am trying to keep them in the same History cycle and same science topic. Especially as we are all rotating through CC together. I feel like it makes all of our stuff tie together and we can act things out, etc. You are sort of right about me having ideas about the "other" stuff, although it pretty much lines up w/HOD--Singapore Math and GWG (not the same, but very similar to Rod and Staff w/less copying, which is why we did that last year for my ds.) My 7 y.o. is doing FLL w/ETC. I will definitely keep going w/ETC b/c I love it.
So, I could do CTC with my 10 y.o. and reread SOTW along w/our SL readers and Core 4/5 (old PK) stories and books for the 3, 5, and 7 y.o. And then just do LA and Math with those three, since I know what I'm doing there. I'm stuck at this point b/c I really like how Carrie has it all planned out and I love the little Singapore activities she includes. I personally have a hard time "thinking" like Singapore so help is good!

This is just me, but I think this is your best choice. Doing CTC with your 10 yo and reading SOTW, SL readers, Core 4/5 and LA and math at there own level with your 3,5, and 7 yr old.
LHFHG would work for your 5 and 7 yr old but I think you would be really tweaking it for your 7 yr old. It sounds as if your 7 yr old has already been exposed to a lot that is just being introduced in BLHFHG. Copywork and spelling isn't until BLHFHG and grammer is 1x a week in BLHFHG. The activities for Primary 1a/1b are also in BLHFHG. I think BLHFHG would be a better fit for your 7 yr old. I also think you would be tweaking BLHFHG a lot for your 5 yr old if you chose to try and combine them in it. If you are keeping them in the same history cycle and use something else for history such as SOTW the other boxes on the left (learning with history) would seem to come out of left field b/c they all tie in to the history theme. The whole left side of the plans revolve around the history theme.

My other question is about time. If one program is 4 hours and another is 2.....is that a 6 hour school day?! I think that's too long for us. We also need to do our AWANA verses and CC Memory work, plus have play time with my 2 y.o. Or...does everyone work on Math at the same time, then LA at the same time and it cuts down on the time? If I did CTC w/either LHFHG or Beyond, how long is our school day? (We'd be doing it mostly 4 days a week b/c of CC on Tuesdays.)

It takes me from 9am-2pm to do 3 programs with 4 children including a 30 min lunch and 30 min recess. I would look at the schedule thread to get a feel for the time it would take to do the guides with your kids.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2093

This is just my take on what you are wanting to do with the history cycle and the best way that I can see you being able to keep them all in the same history cycle this year.
Val

[Patience]

One thing I love about HOD is that it is your basic school (though not basic as in dull or boring). But MFW had a lot of crafts built in and it was hard for me to pull off all the time. HOD may not have the extra's like medieval feasts or cooking planned in, but in my opinion it is quite a bit easier to add them in as you like. In fact, I plan to add in crafts with our BIGGER this year. My daughter loves crafts and so I plan to gather a few craft ideas from the books we are reading and a few library books. To me, there always seem to be craft ideas that come up in the books we are reading together, and often it is THOSE crafts that my kids want to do. So, I just wanted to say I actually like that HOD does not have lots of that stuff, because most of the time I need just basic school. But on those days when I have a little extra time on my hands, we can easily add some crafts that go with the time period. Just a thought to consider. I have friends who use both programs and both are happy.

[mommyofgirls]

MFW had a lot of crafts built in and it was hard for me to pull off all the time. HOD may not have the extra's like medieval feasts or cooking planned in, but in my opinion it is quite a bit easier to add them in as you like.

i agree with this. i have not used either curriculum (we are new to HOD this year - used Sonlight p 4/5 last year). i also thought the sonlight core K was too much for my 5 yo, and just looking at the MFW 1 stressed me out. my dh made the comment that that is just one more thing for me to feel gulity about (we don't have empty yogurt containers, so at 10:00 the night before i am running to the store to alleviate my guilt, yada yada yada ). that being said, i think it depends on your personality. i like to add in the "stuff" when i have time, but don't want to feel bogged down by it. but, i have a friend who thinks the HOD art, etc. is not near enough for them...she WANTS the busy-MFW stuff. *shrug* Keep praying about it - you'll know what's best!

[Mamochka5]

Thanks, ladies. Still considering...... Anyone else want to chime in????

[Kathleen]

Both of you mentioned doing LHFHG with the 5 and 7 y.o. I'm considering your suggestion. My question is: What about phonics, reading, and math? My 5 y.o. is just STARTING phonics and isn't reading yet. (She'll be in kindergarten). It looks like a great fit for her, for sure! But my 7 y.o. is reading long vowel words and has worked most of the way through Singapore 1 A (Not Earlybird, regular), so there's a big gap between the two. How would I handle this? I don't want to hold back my 2nd grader by forcing her to do spelling tests with "hat", "bug", etc. b/c she did all that last year and I want her to progress. So I think SHE fits better in the Beyond program. But would that be too much for my 5 y.o.?? I'm still going to be going through LHTH w/the 2 and 3 y.o. and can't do 3 other programs, too!

My other question is about time. If one program is 4 hours and another is 2.....is that a 6 hour school day?!

I think you could easily do LHFHG with your 5 and 7 yo still if you wanted to. For reading, your guide will remind you to do your phonics program. (It's not built in.) So, you'd progress with the 7 yo, and start the 5 yo. Then, it would probably be ideal if you also purchased the Beyond guide and you could use it for the hands-on math ideas for Singapore, the grammar lessons (unless you wanted more than is there), the 2nd spelling list (which looks like it would fit her just right), and eventually the Emerging Reader set when she's ready for them. So, aside from being seperate in reading and math your 2 could move together through the rest of the day. Which, those subjects would have to be seperate no matter what you do for the rest of the day for them.

Just so you know, I'm not trying to be pushy with this idea...just wanting to give you some thoughts on how it could work if you decide it would be best.

Your times when doing more than one HOD program will most definitely overlap. You would be working with your younger crew while the older one is doing independent work. I can't remember which sections of CTC are intended to be independent...but if the history reading is something intended to be done indpendently by the child and you opt to read it aloud to everyone, that is something that would probably add extra time to the day than is estimated. Of course you're free to use it in a way that works for you, but that is just something that popped into my head that I thought I'd throw out there.

Kathleen