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I just started LHTH with my children. I mainly bought it for my 4- and 2-year-olds. My 5- and 7-year-olds are joining in the fun too though! The issue is with my 4-year-old. He is very different from my other boys. They are typical crazy ants-in-their-pants boys. My 4-year-old is more quiet, and content to sit and draw or play quietly by himself. When we were doing the fingerplay in LHTH, he was saying it with us, but he did not want to get up and do the motions with us. When it was time to glue beans onto the letter A, he did a couple and then said he wanted to stop. Dh thinks that since this is ds's school, then he should be expected to participate. But, I also want school to be fun for ds, so I'm hesitant to insist that he crawl around like an alligator if he really doesn't want to. He enjoys being read to, and likes to work in ETC Primer workbooks and the R&S ABC workbooks (though I'm saving D and F for when he's in LHFHG). But most of all, he loves to draw and cut/paste things. He's very creative (he rarely wants a coloring book. He'd rather start with a blank piece of paper).

Anyway, should I insist that he participate? Or just let him decide at this point? I'm concerned if I let him get away with making too many of the school decisions, then it will be harder to get him to do what he needs to do next year in LHFHG (starting May/June 2010, or maybe when he turns 5 in Dec if he's ready for it; I haven't decided yet!).

ETA: By the way, he did enjoy the activity where he drew with a white crayon and then painted over it. There's just certain types of activities that he tends to not like, and I just don't know if I'm supposed to make a big deal of it or not!

I love it when Dad's give us their wisdom and take the leading of there families serious!
There is certainly wisdom in what your husband said. To have your son do the activity, because it's part of school. I had to go through some of this with my sons in different areas. I think a gentle approach and taking time to teach you 4 yr old that school is like his work right now. That the bible says to do your work heartily unto the Lord.
Than taking his age and maturity into consideration and allowing him to excel in the areas that he enjoys and feels confident, but also telling him that we all have to do some things we may not like to do that much or feel like we are not so good at them.
I sometimes give them examples of some of the things I don't really like to do, but because it's my job I have to them and do them with a positive and joyful attitude as unto the Lord. So maybe gently encouraging him to do just a few more beans and not overwhelming him to do as many as his brothers.
For the activities such crawling on the bellie, I would build it up that it is for him and encourage him to do at least one so he can learn how fun it is.
Sometimes I think it is overwhelming for the little guys to see their brothers being good at everything already and having to catch up. Maybe also talk to the other kiddo's about encouraging him by saying what a good job he is doing and how God is helping do so good a job.
Also before you take any of the advise, try to take it to the Lord and ask your husband to do so with you so that you will do it with the wisdom of the Lord! God has given you this little boy and He has the blue print of how he is to be treated and encouraged.
Succes.

Well my answer may not be the popular one here but here goes anyway.

My daughter started off liking the rhymes but shortly into it it became a chore and she didn't want to do them. She didn't think they were fun and she was uncomfortable doing them. I didn't make her do that because in all honesty it didn't "teach" her anything. It was a chance to be fun and "cement" the learning more but if she already had that without doing the rhymes I didn't feel this was an area to force. Even when we got to Little Hearts she did not like the rhymes part. That is just not who she is. Now the gluing and cutting and all of that are what I consider to be fundamental skills to learn for school and I do force the issue on those things in a gentle way.

Some may disagree with me about this and that is just fine! My daughter's gross motor skills are just fine because she does dance and tumbling.

I woudn't force the issue on rhymes. Perhaps you continuing to do them with the other kids will help him to become more excited about it and even if not, you'd be surprised what he'll remember by just being allowed to "listen" to what you do. Just make sure he is getting some gross motor skills addressed in some way. The letter part of it is in my opinion not something he can skimp on. Perhaps you need to slow it down because he is too overwhelmed with how many beans he has to glue. Could you break it down into several gluing sessions for five minutes at a time or something throughout the day?

My thought is that God created your child to be more introverted and bookish for a reason. You are not supposed to make him like the other boys. He needs to be taught diligence in doing something with excellence but if something truly isn't working for him...find what does. Maybe instead of gluing beans you let him pick what he wants to glue to it...it might help him to get into it more. And the rhymes while fun for some do not work for all.

God bless.

Only you know the heart of your child and can determine what to do but that is my two cents.

I was thinking that letting him cut squares of paper to glue to the letter would be more fun for him, and still accomplish the same thing.

My ds2 doesn't participate in the rhymes either. I just do them to show him and move on. I'm not stressing it. He does love all the rest. He does more of the fingerplays with Playtime Devotions than he does with the rhymes in motion.
How do you set up the activities? Is there just beans and glue available to everyone or does he have his own little workstation? I am asking b/c some kids thrive on order. My ds2 wouldn't mess with the activities when I just had glue and beans or paper. He really wouldn't do them at all. Then I bought these little trays and tried to do it more Montessori style. He really did better when there was order to it and he had his tray with his glue and his bowl of cut up squares. It gave him a focus and I attempted to only put enough squares that will cover the letter that way it doesn't seem overwhelming. I bought my trays at Target for $2.50 in their little $1 section. http://wigglewormsfirstschool.blogspot. ... ytown.html I do the trays with any of his fine motor skills activities.

You could put 1 inch strips of construction paper in your bowl and add scissors to your tray so that your son could cut his own squares. I don't know if doing the trays might would help with your ds or not, but I know it worked for us.
Val

Val-
Thanks for the tray suggestion. I'll have to see if something like that might help him.

When we were doing the bean-gluing activity, I only got out supplies for the 2 and 4 year olds. I told my oldest 2 that this was for the preschool-age children (even though they really wanted to glue beans too!). I let them participate in the fingerplay and Bible reading, but I figured when it was time to glue beans, the older ones could move onto their own stuff (and I admit, the amount of artwork gets overwhelming around here, and I really didn't want FOUR bean-covered A's to find space to hang up somewhere. For painting projects, I do let everyone get involved, but for something like gluing things to learn the shape of a letter, I didn't think I needed to have my oldest 2 do it too!). As it ends up, my oldest two jumped in and were helping the 2 year old with his beans (he wanted help).

I know that my 4 year old does not like coloring books, just plain paper to cut/paste/color as he pleases. So, I'm thinking that the bean activity just wasn't creative enough for him. I just had a thought- I could give him several small bowls with various items (beans, small pieces of paper, etc) and let him pick what he glues. I will also let him try to write the letter himself next time (he is doing great with writing for his age).

Anyway, thanks for the replies. It's helpful to hear what other people think and bounce ideas off of you!

We all wonder how much to push our dc in the things that are not their favorites. Then we worry if we don't, what is the habit that is being formed? I wish I could tell you this would go away as your dc get older, but it doesn't - it continues on. From everything like chores, morning routine, bedtime routine, table manners, acceptable behavior, character training - and yes, school too. I can't give you a set answer what would be best, because only you will know in your own home what habits you are focusing on instilling, and what battles you are waging. I can share with you some Charlotte Mason quotes that have helped me through tough times with my dc:

"The formation of habits IS education, and education is the formation of habits." (Vol. 1, p. 97)

“It rests with parents and teachers to lay down lines of habit on which the life of the child may run henceforth with little joltings or miscarriage, and may advance in the right direction with the minimum of effort.” (Vol. 1 p107)

Here's one comical quote from Charlotte Mason that makes me laugh out loud , because I am reminded of this daily in my house!

"The mother who takes pains to endow her children with good habits secures for herself smooth and easy days; while she who lets their habits take care of themselves has a weary life of endless friction with the children: All day she is crying out, 'Do this!' and they do it not; 'Do that!' and they do the other" (Vol. 1, pp. 135, 136).

Now, how true is that?!? Doesn't Charlotte Mason have a knack for hitting the nail on the head?!? We all long for the smooth and easy days she speaks of - and just when we've reached them, it seems as if another habit has arisen we need to deal with.

I was thinking one thing that might be helpful for me to share is the progession I've seen in my own dc as we've gone through the various HOD guides - maybe that will help in your decision some...
In LHTH, the Fingerplay emphasizes one letter and its sound, while also reinforcing the Biblical theme, and every 5th unit is a letter review unit. In LHFHG, A new rhyme is introduced each unit and each rhyme emphasizes one or more gross motor skills, and also reinforces the history theme. By Beyond Little Hearts, the rhymes are replaced with poems, and a different classic poem is introduced each unit. The poems also reinforce the history theme. The active part that dc did with the rhymes/fingerplays is transferred to Bible where dc put actions to their Bible verses to help them memorize them more proficiently. This is continued all the way through PHFHG, at which point the Bible verses are much longer, and lengthy passages of Psalms are memorized. Both of my dc often choose actions they already learned from doing the fingerplays/rhymes for memorizing their Bible verses. When my oldest ds did PHFHG, he relied on these actions (as well as the Corresponding Music) to be able to memorize the long passages.

So, in closing, I can't tell you what would be best for your situation. I can tell you that from what you've shared, it's obvious your heart is in your post here, and that you are weighing what you need to expect of your dc carefully to make them successful. It is my prayer that it be made known to you which habits are most important to work on for each of your dc, and please pray the same for me, as I wonder this each day as well!

In Christ,
Julie

sharonb wrote: I just had a thought- I could give him several small bowls with various items (beans, small pieces of paper, etc) and let him pick what he glues. I will also let him try to write the letter himself next time (he is doing great with writing for his age).

That's a great idea! I bet he will like that.

Another thing that helps with creative kids is color. It's funny, whenever my kids get skittles or m&ms they sort them out into little piles by color. Perhaps he would like a little fish tackle box filled with beads(if age appropriate) or paper squares divided according to color. Then he could create color sequences or do the letter all in one color etc.

I also agree that this is something we all wonder about. It can feel like a balancing act at times... a fine line between challenging our dc and not frustrating them. This takes so much prayer!

I suppose the first thing to consider is this - Is learning taking place? He may feel uncomfortable sliding like an alligator, but is he absorbing the content of the fingerplay? If he is watching, listening, and with the family during the fingerplay, then I might gently encourage him to try, but I personally wouldn't insist on it or frustrate him over it. I'm leaning that way based on his young age and because we're talking about something that isn't key to his academic success or his ability to grow spiritually. Now if he was off in the corner pouting and whining and refusing to participate at all... that would be a different issue.

About whether or not to make him glue all the beans on... I think the thing to ask in these situations are - How can I get him to understand/complete the skill? I tend to lean on the side of flexibility for art projects when they're that little. If you're ok with providing other materials like paper, cotton balls, or glitter for now, that would still get the same skill across to him. Sometimes my dd (3 years old) just wants me to sit next to her or help her a little and that gives her enough motivation to finish. I do expect her to finish a project though if I feel she can handle it and it's not too overwhelming. I don't want her to get the idea that she can go off and play and not finish something because she doesn't feel like it.

I think that kind of flexibility is part of the beauty of homeschooling. When I taught public school, all of the kids HAD to do the project exactly as I had prepared it because I had 20+ students and it just wasn't possible to cater to each one in that way.

So what do you think the underlying issue is about him not wanting to participate? Perhaps you can pray that God would reveal that to you and you can gently encourage him in that area. Not all of our dc are going to be crazy about that musical/kinesthetic area, but encouraging them in their areas of strength and weakness will help them to be as well rounded as possible so that God can use them however He pleases.

Let us know how it goes!

This afternoon I asked ds if he would prefer to cut out paper to glue instead of using beans, and he said yes. In fact, he wanted to do it right then and there! I was busy in the kitchen, so my dd helped him get down construction paper, scissors, and glue. She helped draw the A, but he did the rest himself. He cut out different shapes/colors of paper and glued them onto the A and it really turned out cute. He was so proud of it too! So, next time we run into an activity like this, I'm going to give him room to be creative.

As for the fingerplay, he was sitting right there, and even saying it with us. He just didn't want to get up and move with us! I'm thinking a lot of that depends on his mood though. There are times that he'll dance around the kitchen to our VBS music with the rest of us! And then sometimes he doesn't. For school, I'll make sure he's right there listening, and gently encourage him to get involved too, but I decided I'm not going to stress over it!

I appreciate all the input on this; thanks!

my3sons wrote:
Here's one comical quote from Charlotte Mason that makes me laugh out loud , because I am reminded of this daily in my house!

"The mother who takes pains to endow her children with good habits secures for herself smooth and easy days; while she who lets their habits take care of themselves has a weary life of endless friction with the children: All day she is crying out, 'Do this!' and they do it not; 'Do that!' and they do the other" (Vol. 1, pp. 135, 136).

Now, how true is that?!? Doesn't Charlotte Mason have a knack for hitting the nail on the head?!? We all long for the smooth and easy days she speaks of - and just when we've reached them, it seems as if another habit has arisen we need to deal with.


In Christ,
Julie

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I so needed to hear that right now!! Thank you so much! It does put things in perspective...