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After much searching, I felt at peace with HOD, and purchased Beyond for next year. But, since we weren't very structured this year (to put it kindly) we have been finishing up MFW 1st this summer. Dd has been such a handful with her attitude regarding school, I did enroll her with K12 Virtual School for 2nd grade for fall. I guess I am hoping that that will provide the "structure" and she will have to be accountable not only to me, but to the VA "teacher".

I'm embarrassed to admit it, because it seems like I'm taking the easy way out or something. But I love learning, and I have been really excited to do school. I'm not as organized or as forceful-or something! Anyway, I looked at my pile of HOD stuff today & felt like I had copped out or something. We still have the option to not have her start, of course, but I feel like such a loser flip/flopping constantly. I keep telling my dh-"Okay, this is what we're doing!" Then, "No, THIS is what we're doing!"

My reason for writing this is that I am going to stop the MFW 1st (she already knows how to read, and it's repetitive for her anyway) and start Beyond with both dc tomorrow. PLEASE pray for us, that this will be the answer. If it goes well, maybe I'll have that "Ah ha" moment come August, and we will stick with HOD and not ever think about virtual school again.

Thanks-
Tammi

I'm so sorry you are having a hard time. I feel a connection to you b/c I've been in the exact same place you are with my dd and I'm also not well organized and can't work well on a timed schedule. If you'll look at my blog, you'll see a couple ideas for schedules and organization that are easy to do and make school much more enjoyable for all, and is a real attitude fix for dd in school related issues. It's an "order of events" instead of a "8am-breakfast, 8:30- Bible, 8:45- Math" kind of schedule.
I'm also now working on a workbox system which has been hard to start up, but will be well worth it- I think. I also have a Beyond Materials list that lists needed books, materials, etc. for each day (broken down by unit) that another HOD mom made. If you are interested in any of it, just let me know and I'll email you the list or answer any questions you have.

I do feel for you. My sil is going through that very issue with her ds. She was really leaning towards the K12 option too. She feels that all the face-to-face time with him is too much for her because he is so "much" to handle. She also feels a need for accountability and outside pressures to get things done. I think she gets worn out and then gets in a "let's just get this done" or a "let's just skip this because I don't feel like dealing with him any more" mode, which is self-defeating and makes her feel even worse about the hs experience. She's really struggling with what to do. She loves HOD and believes it is the best way to teach, but she isn't sure she can pull it out.

I encouraged her to reconsider. I told her that I didn't think this was a curriculum issue but a character issue. I don't think it will matter what curriculum she uses, she is still going to have to battle him. The newness of school on the computer will wear off, and the battle will still be there, just a different battlefield. I suggested two things that I think will make a huge difference, but she has to stick to them and be consistent. Inconsistency is death with a dc like hers.

1 - I suggested she use a system like the workbox system. He is the type of child that needs to see what he has to do and how much longer he has to go. He is a box checker. I think that is why she felt a textbook approach would be better for him. But I think that is just because he likes to know exactly what the assignment is, do it, and be done with it. He also needs very firm structure to his day. The workbox system would be great for that. I suggested she fill it with break time activities, snacks, and chores too. That way, most of his day is sort of "scheduled."

2 - I also suggested a way to manage his constant mommy-patience eroding behavior. He really fights her on everything, slacks in his work, and creates a disturbance with his sister hourly. He's 10, so he's getting more difficult than he even was before. He's stronger, louder, and more disruptive. She needed some way of handling him that was nonverbal, so that it didn't constantly interrupt the flow of the lesson. I suggested that she get an index card and a bright marker. EVERY SINGLE TIME he did ANYTHING that was inappropriate, with a complaint, or work that was unacceptable, she is to make a tally mark on the card. I suggested that she not even look up at him most times. Don't comment on his behavior. Just make a mark. If he fusses, make another mark. At the onset, establish with him what the expectations are and what the consequences will be after so-many tally marks. I told her to make the consequences hurt! She really needs to handle his behavior in a way that keeps her calm and in control because he knows her buttons and can really push it if she lets him.

I think that if she does these two things consistently and firmly, he will be much better and will enjoy school more. It will also allow her to use the curriculum she wants to use. I offer these ideas as suggestions to you. I hope they help a bit.

Laura

Tamara & Laura:

Thanks to both of you for your helpful words!

I do agree with you Laura, that it is a character issue, not a curriculum issue. We did school today, and it was soooo frustrating and upsetting. The biggest thing is, dd is great if everything is her way, her being in control, and her getting 100% of the attention-all of the time. Obviously, not going to happen, right? I explained to both dc that we would do history, bible and science together, and math and reading separately. Still, dc has a fit if dd answers a question, makes any sound at all, or gets any attention. I am trying to figure out how to do this in a way that isn't always so negative. I mean, she does get punished, there are consequences, etc... but I feel like we are always on her. Then she goes throught the whole thing of feeling like she's a terrible person, her brother is so good, why is she so mean, etc....

Okay, my rant is over, I just need to do some thinking. I like the tally idea, but would like to combine it with something where she/they get a reward of some type if they do well.

Thanks again,
Tammi

Praying

Tammi - Beyond is a wonderful guide, so I know your dd will eventually come around. You may have half the battle won if you separate the 2. Your ds is young for Beyond anyway - could you possibly do LHFHG with him at half-speed? That would take away the battle between the 2 of them. Even if you decide you don't want to do that, I think I'd go half-speed with Beyond for awhile, doing the left side of the plans one day, and the right side the next. That will be easier to do and give you time to work on character issues as well. We always try to do a new guide half-speed for a bit, if not longer. That has been so nice for me and for the dc as well to get a nice routine going. My oldest ds is kind of independent and likes to start his day with independent things, maybe your dd would enjoy that too? It also sometimes helps me to hold my ds's hands and pray with him when we're frustrated with each other. I will pray for you and your dc - just be patient and keep praying. The Lord always answers!

In Christ,
Julie

Hi Tammi...my name is Tammy, too! I also have a 7 yo dd and a 5 yo son (and an almost 3 yo dd). I think my dd7 and your dd have some similarities! She was in public school, but I am going to start homeschooling now.

I think if I combined my dd and ds I would have many of the same problems you described. My dd feels very competitive toward ds, and I don't think they would work well together. She is also a perfectionist and gets frustrated (with an attitude, I might add) if she doesn't feel the situation is going her way. Since we haven't started hs yet, I don't know how this will play out during school time. I know we will have some issues to work through.

So I am not combining those two. My dd will be doing Beyond and my ds will be doing LHTH with my 3yo (and will do Math, phonics, and fine motor skills from LHFHG). This is a better choice for us both skill and personality wise. Would it work at all for you to have them do separate programs? It may actually save time and frustration.

I wish you the best in whatever you decide!

My oldest dd is very similar. She is a great kid, but she knows my buttons and she pushes them often. The truth is we have the same temperment and flaws (she is a lot like me). I am often harder on her than the other kids b/c I feel if I am not then there will be no where to go when she gets older. Have you thought about not combining them for any subjects? Have you thought about doing her own HOD program with her.
Did both of your dc place well in Beyond or did you decide on it in order to combine? If they both would place in different guides by themselves without combining, then I might would seriously look at that option. It really isn't that bad doing more than 1 guide or more than 2 guides.
My dd 7 would have easily fit in with my dd8 in BHFHG this year, but it would have been a personal nightmare to have them together. My dd8 would have wanted to be in control, finishing first, and answering everything while my dd7 would have felt inadequate, unintelligent, and slow. There would have been tears, tantrums, and crying. I would have been locked in a battle of willpower against her and a war or words and actions and counteractions. I know we tried last summer with R&S math and a few other subjects just to see if I could do homeschooling. Needless to say they went back to public school last fall after a horrible attempt.
Thank God I found HOD this last February and we are having another go at the summer home school. Keeping my dd8 in her own program at her own level without any of the other dc is working for us. It is improving her behavior with her siblings to have the one on one time with me. We are having great talks about character and behavior and a lot more that never would have occured with her siblings present.
I did love the tally suggestion someone else gave. I am going to use that for my dd8 from now on out. I do lose my cool with her more than I should and I think it feeds the behavior. A calm response with a quiet record of accountability and consequences sounds ideal and simple compared to the battle I wage daily.
I hope you find your answer and your homeschool niche for all your dc.
Val

Have you seen something called "Exposing a Trojan Horse"? This is a link about programs like K12.

https://www.ghea.org/pages/resources/it ... rchase.php

Hi there! I just had to chime in (even though I didn't read every reply in detail ), but I actually did do WIVA (Wisconsin virtual academy) with my ds for Kindergarten. I just felt the need to share my experience with a VA with you to help you in your decision since I've REALLY been there!

First of all, it is very much a Public School curriculum. That was the main reason that we didn't continue with it. We are conservative christians and K12 had too much ps humanistic religion in it for me. The stories and music actually scared my ds and involved a lot of magic etc., with an evilutionary bent even in Kindergarten. I never felt comfortable teaching it anyway.

We did have a "teacher" that we were supposed to be accountable to also, but ALL the actual teaching is done by the parent. We had a virtual classroom time each week or month?, can't remember and she called us once a week? to ask my ds a few questions by himself. She did no teaching at all and was really not involved in our school year much at all. It really seemed all show to me to have us talking with the teacher anyway.

I had a real struggle with my ds in Kindergarten also, well, actually since birth . He's really strong willed with a grumpy tendancy! The work in K12 seemed very hard to me for his age and he learned little because the focus was all on short term memory. We did each lesson and immediately after he had to be able to answer some questions and that was it and we moved on. I did like the phonics instruction though, that was the brightest part of K12 for us. We spent at least 2 hours a day trying to drill the required material into his head so we wouldn't get behind and it made for a terrible first homeschooling experience. It truly is homeschooling with a ps curriculum to me.

Since it went so badly we decided to enroll my ds in our church's school for 1st. That was better for all of us for a while, but soon my ds began to loose who he was, by trying to make all the kids like him, he didn't act like himself. He did that for 2nd grade also. However, he did have a great teacher that helped him to be a lot more teachable though. Somehow she could teach the seemingly unteachable!

When my dd became Kindergarten age I made the decision to bring him back home and hs them both (that was this year). We learned a lot this year! I learned how my kid's like to learn and how I like to teach. This next year we will be using HOD and I am soooo excited to do something fun for school! God certainly led us to this and I believe next year will be our best. My ds will always be my "difficult" one, but learning more about him helped me to teach him. It's really all a heart issue with our dc that we need to pray about diligently!

I hope my VA experience helps you, God bless you, and do what He wants you to do, not us!

Michelle (praying for you!)

I don't know if this is the same there or not, but the past 2 yrs I used k12 through agora cyber charter school in Pa. If you are not good with structure, schedules etc, this will NOT be for you! I am terribly disorganized, I fight this battle all the time trying to get organized, trying to keep up, trying to remember everything. With Agora, using k12- I was in charge of teaching everything they laid out, every single day, checking in with logging attendance, sending work samples on time, remembering to have the girls log in on the right day and time to teacher 'conferences'....... My kids weren't actually any more accountable to anyone else- except that I could turn around and say, if you don't do this, they come after me. My kids had to be constantly told, did you do everything for school today, and I had to go in and look and see if they did, keep fighting them to get it all done (and in my opinion it was ALOT!!!!!!)

Granted, my dd who is ending 3rd grade this year is already reading novels- she already read stone fox, and a lion to guard us, and charlotte's web- all of which list around 2/3 or 4/5 in DITHOR. She has also already been doing geography (actually with k12, both of my kids (the other is ending 1st grade)- have covered globes, cardinal directions, map keys, learning the 7 continents, various landforms....) THey also both have experience with parts of speech, subject and predicate, capitalization, punctuation....

My dd started with k12 in 2nd grade. From what I remember, she had a list of 10 spelling words every week- with activities every day, Language arts (in 2nd grade this was reading and parts of speech/grammar- it also included using worldly wise book for vocabulary, and 10 min of handwriting practice using handwriting without tears program) and math every day, science was twice a week maybe, history was 2-3 times a week (my kids LOVED their history- it is in story form, from fertile crescent forward so 2nd grade we did romans, ancient africa, ancient china....) (they 'estimate' that math takes 60 min a day, LA 60 in a day, spelling was 20 or 30 min a day.... that is 2 1/2 hrs and you haven't gotten to science, history, music and art) Music and art were twice a week also I think? They had monthly required for turn in assignments to the teacher as well as monthly call in's- which actually were usually on the computer with the teacher (but this is the only times my kids dealt with their teacher- and of course, I was in charge of sending in the paperwork) You are also responsible for implenting your own phys ed and health- and required to log some number of hours on those. Since it was public school at home, we had to log 180 days attendance, AND 900 hrs completed. (that is 5 hrs per day) They do not provide text books really- so I had to be at a computer to read science, and history especially to my girls. If I needed the "say this to your child' type instructions, then I needed to be at the computer for every class I was to teach. I simply looked at what was being taught/asked in some areas and taught it away from the computer using my own resources-- however, music, art, history, and science, I either had to have another text book to work from, or sit at the computer and do it- really not for me. (it made me no more accountable, we simply just didn't finish everything)

All in all, k12 was very hard for me to keep up with. My oldest who is 3rd grade now, is just starting to be able to do some stuff by herself- my 1st grader needs me to read and lead everything. My 3rd grader is not responsible nor disciplined enough on her own to be accountable- I still have to keep pulling teeth, reminding, threatening.... only there was several HOURS worth of work for each child that needed covered. (It didn't take us 5 hrs per day every day if we kept up, but it did take at least 3 or more- and my kids were always complaining)

Brenda

Tammi,
I have to agree with the 2 previous posters. I used k12 for 3 years 6 years ago. It was ALOT of work on the parent and student!!! I had to stop because my school day was going from early morning to after dinner. The kids were overwhelmed, frustrated and so was I.
After 11 years of homeschooling,in my opinion, HOD tops any curriculum I have used. The education these children will receive is top notch without the factor of overwhelming mom and kids.
I pray you will make the best decision for your family.
Blessings,
Ann

Thank you all who have given feedback on the K12 Va!!! I really needed to hear it, because the only other person I know who is using it has only 1 child, and she (mom) is VERY organized and disciplined (not me )

I want my dc to like learning & like school; I did. Having to "check the boxes" every day and having the pressure doesn't seem the best for us. My dd loves nature, lives to explore all of the things outside, and I really encourage this. So, some days, I will let her do that in the morning. Yes, we need a schedule, and structure, but one of the reasons I like hsing is so that we can be flexible, and also let them learn more about things they are really interested in.

By the way, we had a FANTASTIC day on Tuesday with HOD!!!! I started using the tally system in class, and also used "positive" tally's that could erase the bad ones. Worked like a charm, dd even said "This is the best day-I love school!"

Thanks everyone-
Tammi

I just wanted to thank everyone for sharing about their dc and their attitudes. My son fits right in with this and every day has been a battle this year. We know it is character issues and I was constantly thankful for our HOD curriculum because at very timely moments the bible study matched perfectly to the issues we were "attacking" or being attacked with (spiritually). I was considering if he (and our younger son) would be better off if he went to ps. But God kept reminding me how He had provided for us as a family through our hs journey and would continue. Continually, what came to mind was the question "what is the most important part of what we were covering and our son was learning, and where would he get it from?". The answer was easy, and it made it easy to decide on the curriculum for the coming year as well. We are looking forward to another year with HOD (BHFHG and LHTH) but I need the summer off to regroup mentally and I am certainly going to investigate some of the ideas you all have posted. Thank you and I would desire your prayers as well. We will remember you all, too. Tammi, we live in VA also and I hope you got a chance to check out about the Trojan Horse.

Thank you all again, I don't feel as alone and that my son is just off the deep end.

Gosh, Tammi, I am sooooo happy to hear that you had such a good day!!

I am still looking forward to having an expeience like that and hopefully we will once we begin HOD. I just love HOD because I know I would have loved to have had school that way.

WIVA was really so much more work for us (and it was only Kindergarten!) and a stressor too. Very content filled (overly) and not always what you'd want to fill your dc with.

Soooo happy for you! I'm sure it will not be like that EVERY day, but you do have this great day to keep in your mental bank to get you through those not so great days.

God bless, Michelle (another happy WI mom!, actually we're in Northeast WI, Green Bay area)